Aspies/Auties and the LAW.

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I found a bunch of information that I had never even thought of before. Regarding the Autism spectrum and the Law. There are many articles to read, that might be useful for everyone to consider.

Let's start with the Department of Justice (DOJ) website and the ADA:
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm

Scroll down. Surprised to find Police Response to People with Disabilities? Guides for Law Enforcement?

Over here is a process page on what might happen in a scenario of someone on the spectrum:
http://www.scn.org/autistics/process.html

READ THAT PAGE.

There's a link on that page to this page:
http://policeandautism.cjb.net/

Do I have to say it? READ THAT PAGE.

Criminal Justice Issues:
http://www.autism-society.org/site/Page ... wa_justice

Read. Parents. Kids. Everyone.

This one has links to articles and to books. Handy!
http://www.neurodiversity.com/law_enforcement.html

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Boring Story Time:

I was on my way home from a friend's birthday party. I usually didn't drink. But I'd had several beers. They were younger folks (I was the old fart at the party, LOL), so they had the "I just turned 21 keg of beer" kind of party.

I was driving slowly. I wasn't inebriated, just goofy.

I got pulled over. By the police.

The policeman approached, and asked me if I knew why he pulled me over.

I tell the truth.

So, I said "Probably because I must have been weaving all over and driving too slow because I was just at a party and I don't usually drink and I had a couple beers..."

He kind of stood there for a moment, just staring and blinking his eyes.

He says "Uh, no, you have a burned out tail light".

Oh. Oops.

So he says to get the light fixed. And is letting me go. But would follow me home to be sure I got there okay.

Except my car wouldn't start. I'd turned it off, and sometimes it just wouldn't start. It had to "rest" or something.

So I get out of my car, and storm back to his police cruiser and say "And NOW my car won't start and it's all YOUR fault, butthead".

Yes, I really did say that. Yes, I really did call the officer a butthead.

So he has me lock up my car, and he gives me a ride home. Which was like 2 blocks. I was worried about my car, and I said "You better keep an eye on that car too, mister." And he gave me his card. Is that flirting? What was I supposed to do with that card?

Anyway, my mum gives me a ride back to my car the next morning.

And guess what?

There WAS a police car watching my car.

Probably not from me wanting them to watch it, but the new officer wanted to see the dingbat who sassed the night officer with "butthead" and told the truth about drinking.

He smiled real big and waved. And when I got my car started, he left.

======

That only works if you're a cute girl in a hot car. I think. I don't think that would work too well if swear words were used or the person in the car was a big brutus of a guy.

And it wasn't some kind of master plan. It was just me being me. I don't recognize authority in the same manner as NTs do. I know the officer has a job and duty. But that doesn't make him less of a butthead if he stops me when my car dies. Yeah, he didn't know that either. He was just investigating a car that could have had who knows who inside.

If one can get pulled over for having a burned out tail lamp, which we can, our quirks and unusual ways can have us getting into trouble. Big trouble.

If a police officer tells someone to get out of the car, and the person turns away and starts reaching behind the passenger seat, that officer doesn't know what is being reached FOR. It could be an assisting walking device, like a cane. But for all the officer knows, it could be a shot gun. Right? WE KNOW, but THEY DO NOT.

WE KNOW we're Aspie and quirky and don't read body language. THEY DO NOT.

The officer may be practically screaming at us in body language that they are worried and ready to shoot us, and we have no clue.

So read those links. Practice saying those things, with a friend or in front of a mirror, if you have to. Best case scenario, you never need that info. Right?

Worst case scenario? It's what happened to an Aspie friend. I don't know the details and I don't want to know, but it wasn't a good experience. I do know that he didn't sleep worth a darn for days, because of the noise. And that his public defender was not at all familiar with Asperger's.

Putting an Aspie into certain situations, might as well just hook up the jumper cables to the car battery and our earlobes. It IS cruel and unusual for those of us who cannot handle that kind of intense social situation. Can't read regular people and now an Aspie is put in a place with criminals? Yikes.

I don't think an officer giving you his card is flirting, I think it's protocol for most departments.

Thanks Penguin! I had no idea. I didn't have police rides home before or since that one time.

Business cards. Now what would I need a police officer's card FOR? It's not like he can provide a specific service for me. Or that I can just call to chat. What is the purpose of giving a business card to a person if it is a police officer? I don't understand.

I think it's like giving you their badge number in case there's a problem. I was riding with someone who shouldn't have been driving (had been drinking), and the cop just asked us both if either of us had been drinking. He didn't issue anything even though the driver was doing 55 in a 40 as well, and the cop gave him his card when he left.

i hate the police.
They are inclined to think I am on drugs when i am not.
Once there was an officer who insisted that my hair was a wig and yanked at it.

Honestly, you should have been taken into custody. There is no way ANYONE who has had a "few to drink" should be out on the road, especially if they are weaving. That officer was out of order not to have taken you off the road, regardless of whether or not he was following you, and you were extremely fortunate that you got a cop who didn't respect the law and his profession enough to book you when you approached his car and verbally assaulted him.

I don't understand why you thought it was his fault your car wouldn't start? It's not that uncommon to get pulled over for a tail light that is out. Most cops here would have given you a sobriety test if you said you'd been drinking and that your car was weaving. Anyway, I don't get why that was his fault or why you felt he should be responsible to watch your car. I guess I'm missing something.


Cops are always nice to me and help me, but then again, I don't yell at them for doing their job (although I have yelled at them if someone does something blatantly dangerous and illegal in front of them and they do nothing).

Actually, Girls are probably expected to act that way to some extent, and he probably heard worse. And he may not have been flirting but frankly, **I** treat cute females better. I don't know why! It isn't necessarily sexually motivated, and is probably from 2 to 60! He probably wouldn't have minded if you HAD called him and become friendly though, ESPECIALLY since he did nothing to make it worth your while. (So he wouldn't suspect you of any illicit intent.)

Steve

I am highly amused at your idea that a policeman is flirting with you because he gave you his card, but the kicker is that you think police should somehow adapt their behaviour in a situation to YOUR benefit!

They probably had their laugh of the month with your (seemingly) arrogant shenannagans! Of course they were watching your car! They probably drew straws to see who got to deal with you next! Drunken and demanding Aspies must be a riot of laughs to serious NTs!

LOL

Uh.

Er.

Um.

Wow!

I wasn't weaving. I wasn't driving too slow. That was my own perception. I guess you all missed that. Amazing.

The police officer pulled me over for a BURNED OUT TAIL LIGHT. Not for suspicion of drunk driving. Not for weaving. Not for driving too slow. ONLY for a burned out tail lamp.

And of COURSE he did not know my car wouldn't start after it had been turned off. *I* never knew if my car would start or not. You are familiar with the assumption that people know what you are thinking, or that they know what you know? It is apparently common in Aspies. That is one of the tests for kids.

That is why I thought it would be especially humorous to the Aspie crowd. It is so typical, that I would expect that officer to know that turning off my car may result in the car not starting.

I am disappointed in the responses from some of people. I brought to you all good links. And a boring story. The links can help all of you. The story can illustrate a typical Aspie response that COULD have gotten someone into big trouble.

I admitted what I thought I might be doing. If I actually HAD been weaving or going WAY TOO SLOW, the officer would have been within the law to write out tickets galore, or to take me into custody. I agree with that. My OWN perception was off. As it is regardless of alcohol consumption. My perception of what *I* am doing is far more harsh than what might be perceived by others.

I am my own worst critic.

That I was pulled over for a tail lamp, and freely admitted to something else, that could have been used against me is a mistake. A problem that could be a problem for many in the spectrum. This gushing of truth and perceptions. I can't lie. And I am harsh on myself. So that I am often a very bad person, seen from my own eyes.

I have talked to police many times, on the phone. Or the local officers in my neighborhood. They are all NTs. They know there is something odd about me and that it does NOT involve risk. I am NOT going to suddenly attack them. One lady officer said "We know the difference between physical handicaps and illegal drug use". So that she, at least, would not have assumed I was under the influence of something while I hobble on down the street in pain.

NTs somehow KNOW that stuff. I don't. And those officers have to be very alert to people. Even when I have approached officers that have the K-9 units (the dog in the back), even the dog doesn't bark at me. The dog even knows I am not a threat.

Birds know I am not a threat, like the scrub jays that would take raw peanuts from my mouth, after landing on my hand. Bears know I am not a threat, like the black bears I wandered off to rub their heads. Those who HAVE to be in tune with the nature of beings KNOW I am not a threat.

I am the kind of person who will take total responsibility for 'Nam, even though I was under 10 years old. I sacrifice myself. If it makes people feel better to have one person to blame, blame me.

And so did many people in this thread. They went after my story, rather than glean wonderful information from the links.

Phenomenon, the officer pulled me over for what was seen. A burned out tail lamp. End of story. He totally respected the law. He might have been nosy as to who was inside that vehicle. You will not disrespect that officer. Ever. His cause to pull me over was only the tail lamp. Nothing else. It was my own anxiety that caused me to "confess" my sins. If I was a hazard, in his view, I would have gone right to jail. And I would have applauded his decision all the way.

I am extremely insecure.

I have made a couple of "citizen's arrests" because of behavior I have observed. I have been behind drunk drivers that ARE genuinely weaving. I put on my hazard lights, and do not allow others to pass me. I protect the public the best I can in that way. And I fill out the forms as needed.

I have NOTHING personal against those drivers. What I do worry about is that they could harm another person. And when I have been sincerely unable to drive, I have pulled off the road. If I am too tired. Had much more than a couple of beers, I pull off. I ask for help. I do not drive.

Yes, I did once pull off, and the police DID come and check out my vehicle. They told me I could not park there. I said I could not drive, and had no one to call. That is honesty. It was like all of a sudden I could not drive. Luckily there was a place to pull over. And I did. It would have been fine by me if they had carried me off to a nice heated room to sleep. I told the truth, as I saw it, then too.

And there was no way that those police officers were going to MAKE me drive. No way. They can carry me away. They can shoot me on the spot. But there was NO WAY they would EVER make me drive. It would be someone's death sentence. And I would prefer it to my own, and not some innocent being.

Phenomenon, do not ever enter my threads again. Everyone else, watch it with the conclusions you jump to. Maybe everyone else has extensive experience interacting with the police, but I do not.

Thanks.

When I was quoting phenomenon, I wasn't really agreeing that you should have been taken in that night, because I have no way of knowing your sobriety at the time... but the guy I was riding with should have been taken in (he doesn't let anyone drive his car when he's been drinking, I don't know if it's a pride thing, or what...).

But yeah, for the most part, I try to talk to cops minimally. If you're in trouble, the only person who can cut you a deal is a DA, cops will (and are permitted to) lie to you to gather evidence. Especially after, although largely before they put you in cuffs, they are not after your best interests, and are only trying to put you in jail. Although officers have discression with some things, an individual can't really sway that judgement trying to talk themselves out of it, unless they are genuinely in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It's funny you mention the dogs... my car got towed a couple years ago, and when I went to the tow yard, the guy there was really surprised that the dog didn't mind me at all (anecdote: the towing company was called TNT Towing, and I was joking that if you didn't pick your car up within 48 hours, they blew it up).

But yeah, for the most part, cops see a lot of people, and I'm pretty sure autistic people are closer to normal than a lot of people they have to deal with.

Then why, when the officer stopped you and asked you why you thought he stopped you, did you say you were weaving all over? Either you were too unaware of your situation that you couldn't tell (in which case you shouldn't be driving), or you were actually weaving (in which case you wouldn't be driving).

I don't understand how a sane, logical person can post a story like this and NOT expect negative feedback, regardless of the fact that animals love you and that you're such an upstanding citizen you take responsibility for Vietnam.

Uh.

Er.

Um.

Wow!

I wasn't weaving. I wasn't driving too slow. That was my own perception. I guess you all missed that. Amazing.

The police officer pulled me over for a BURNED OUT TAIL LIGHT. Not for suspicion of drunk driving. Not for weaving. Not for driving too slow. ONLY for a burned out tail lamp.

And of COURSE he did not know my car wouldn't start after it had been turned off. *I* never knew if my car would start or not. You are familiar with the assumption that people know what you are thinking, or that they know what you know? It is apparently common in Aspies. That is one of the tests for kids.

That is why I thought it would be especially humorous to the Aspie crowd. It is so typical, that I would expect that officer to know that turning off my car may result in the car not starting.

I am disappointed in the responses from some of people. I brought to you all good links. And a boring story. The links can help all of you. The story can illustrate a typical Aspie response that COULD have gotten someone into big trouble.

I admitted what I thought I might be doing. If I actually HAD been weaving or going WAY TOO SLOW, the officer would have been within the law to write out tickets galore, or to take me into custody. I agree with that. My OWN perception was off. As it is regardless of alcohol consumption. My perception of what *I* am doing is far more harsh than what might be perceived by others.

I am my own worst critic.

That I was pulled over for a tail lamp, and freely admitted to something else, that could have been used against me is a mistake. A problem that could be a problem for many in the spectrum. This gushing of truth and perceptions. I can't lie. And I am harsh on myself. So that I am often a very bad person, seen from my own eyes.

I have talked to police many times, on the phone. Or the local officers in my neighborhood. They are all NTs. They know there is something odd about me and that it does NOT involve risk. I am NOT going to suddenly attack them. One lady officer said "We know the difference between physical handicaps and illegal drug use". So that she, at least, would not have assumed I was under the influence of something while I hobble on down the street in pain.

NTs somehow KNOW that stuff. I don't. And those officers have to be very alert to people. Even when I have approached officers that have the K-9 units (the dog in the back), even the dog doesn't bark at me. The dog even knows I am not a threat.

Birds know I am not a threat, like the scrub jays that would take raw peanuts from my mouth, after landing on my hand. Bears know I am not a threat, like the black bears I wandered off to rub their heads. Those who HAVE to be in tune with the nature of beings KNOW I am not a threat.

I am the kind of person who will take total responsibility for 'Nam, even though I was under 10 years old. I sacrifice myself. If it makes people feel better to have one person to blame, blame me.

And so did many people in this thread. They went after my story, rather than glean wonderful information from the links.

Phenomenon, the officer pulled me over for what was seen. A burned out tail lamp. End of story. He totally respected the law. He might have been nosy as to who was inside that vehicle. You will not disrespect that officer. Ever. His cause to pull me over was only the tail lamp. Nothing else. It was my own anxiety that caused me to "confess" my sins. If I was a hazard, in his view, I would have gone right to jail. And I would have applauded his decision all the way.

I am extremely insecure.

I have made a couple of "citizen's arrests" because of behavior I have observed. I have been behind drunk drivers that ARE genuinely weaving. I put on my hazard lights, and do not allow others to pass me. I protect the public the best I can in that way. And I fill out the forms as needed.

I have NOTHING personal against those drivers. What I do worry about is that they could harm another person. And when I have been sincerely unable to drive, I have pulled off the road. If I am too tired. Had much more than a couple of beers, I pull off. I ask for help. I do not drive.

Yes, I did once pull off, and the police DID come and check out my vehicle. They told me I could not park there. I said I could not drive, and had no one to call. That is honesty. It was like all of a sudden I could not drive. Luckily there was a place to pull over. And I did. It would have been fine by me if they had carried me off to a nice heated room to sleep. I told the truth, as I saw it, then too.

And there was no way that those police officers were going to MAKE me drive. No way. They can carry me away. They can shoot me on the spot. But there was NO WAY they would EVER make me drive. It would be someone's death sentence. And I would prefer it to my own, and not some innocent being.

Phenomenon, do not ever enter my threads again. Everyone else, watch it with the conclusions you jump to. Maybe everyone else has extensive experience interacting with the police, but I do not.

Thanks.

It's just an example of the thought process/honesty issue-if he did not know the tail light was out or was a big deal, he was probably thinking at the time "oh crap, I've been drinking" whether he was weaving or not, it's not something you're supposed to be doing, so blurted that out immediately rather than waiting for the officer to tell him why he was pulled over.

I've done something similar-announced that I was going 7 miles over the speed limit when I was actually being pulled over due to an expired license plate because I didn't realize it was expired Wound up with a ticket for my speeding and a warning to get my tags updated.

The resources and links he posted do not exempt him from the fact that he followed it up with a charming story about getting behind the wheel after drinking.