Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?

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coralbell
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06 May 2017, 3:25 pm

Re: Jesus seems to hate some things: I left the church that I was raised in about 25 years ago, and part of the process involved personal study about the Jesus Seminar and the historical context of authorship of gospel texts. Re-reading the gospels after that study gave me some context for texts that would appear to stir up social demonstration/ revolt. In that context, revolt or talk of insurgency might look like hate.

No, I don't hate anything, and I think that hate causes mental anguish. I have never made a good decision while in a hateful state. I am pretty sure that some of my physical illness (in the past) was caused by the stress of hate. I'm done with hate.

At the same time, good judgement and critical thought can lead a person to reject violent or harmful situations (like workplace gossip) and their choice to turn away from that might look like hate, even though it's motivated by a desire to turn towards the wholesome.



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07 May 2017, 12:22 am

I tend to rearrange, recolour and fortify myself against things I find bleak and banal, I try not to leak black feelings like hate any longer as that takes a lot out of you that can be better redirected into replacing with a more fulfilling, flavorful liquid. A lot of re's, recycling is the key but regurgitating or reanimating is a no-no. Resolute! :D Recognition of something and portioning your reaction and measuring the scope and depth and shape, I can put a filter up, a see through wall and accept how strongly I feel and direct myself against that particular current, but constant perspiration from feeling the relentless odour, it just leaves a helpless hole where you stay at the bottom until you either seek to change your relationship with it or submerge further into whatever it has chipped away at away from what you assumed was its 'place' within your core. Hatred is opaque to me, once you have accepted you feel a massive murky mass against something, you can make a strategy where it does not have to dictate to you.


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14 May 2017, 12:21 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Hate is useless and even when justified should be avoided. I have no idea what Jesus thought about this and I don't think it's relevant. Hate knows know religious bounds, it is a human feeling.

Hate does nothing to the object of hatred, but destroys the person who feels it.


That, or motivate the good people to fight against the evil they hate, just as Jesus would advise.

If you do not hate those who do evil, then you are not a moral person.

That is why Jesus will send the evil ones to hell. ----- Not that I believe in either.

Or do you see that as an example of love?

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DL



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14 May 2017, 12:23 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
He liked wine well enough.
Maybe wrath is a better word than hate.I like the wrathful Jesus that kicked the money changers out of the temple.


Yes. He got angry on occasions. But anger does not equal "hate".


True. That is why they are not described the same way.

What triggers the anger if not hate?

Please do not get semantic on me.

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14 May 2017, 12:28 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Jesus seems to be saying that he is promoting division and war with a number of his sayings that pit father against son and brother against brother.

Jesus advocated division, war and hate; even as some think he preached to love our enemies.

Did Jesus hate and is hate thus a good character trait?

No, I don't think Jesus hated (people, at least), because he promoted "Hate the sin, not the sinner"----like somebody pointed-out him upturning the tables in the Temple, because he hated what they were doing; but, if any one of those money changers would have asked-for God's Grace, I feel they would have received it, if they went-through Jesus.

As for Jesus' quote: I agree with Brainfre3ze_93, and will add that it was Jesus' job to give people, God's message; and then, to determine which people would follow him (thus, be a follower of the Father). I don't feel the passage is saying that Jesus advocated war----but, he knew that his coming, would CAUSE one, because he knew that some would not believe, and would fight the ones who DID.

No, I don't hate----nor, do I think it's good----because I feel it only weakens my spirit; and, like others with Aspergers, if I only have to deal with "Aspie stuff", ALONE, I need my spirit to be strong and intact.


Yet, duality, which is strong in us, says that to have a strong spirit one must hate well as love well.

"Hate the sin, not the sinner"

Tell us who Jesus will send to hell. Those he loves, or the sin he hates?

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DL



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14 May 2017, 12:30 pm

hurtloam wrote:
I hate child abuse and will not tolerate it. If I found out that a family member was abusive to a child I would call the police. A less extreme example would be drunk driving. I hate it. If a family member was going to drive drunk and I couldn't stop them, I would report them to the police.

Hate can be good if it is an intolerance of something that will harm another person.


+ 1

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14 May 2017, 12:33 pm

coralbell wrote:
Re: Jesus seems to hate some things: I left the church that I was raised in about 25 years ago, and part of the process involved personal study about the Jesus Seminar and the historical context of authorship of gospel texts. Re-reading the gospels after that study gave me some context for texts that would appear to stir up social demonstration/ revolt. In that context, revolt or talk of insurgency might look like hate.

No, I don't hate anything, and I think that hate causes mental anguish. I have never made a good decision while in a hateful state. I am pretty sure that some of my physical illness (in the past) was caused by the stress of hate. I'm done with hate.

At the same time, good judgement and critical thought can lead a person to reject violent or harmful situations (like workplace gossip) and their choice to turn away from that might look like hate, even though it's motivated by a desire to turn towards the wholesome.


Are you saying that a rape victim hatting her rapist is not wholesome?

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DL



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14 May 2017, 12:37 pm

DancingCorpse wrote:
I tend to rearrange, recolour and fortify myself against things I find bleak and banal, I try not to leak black feelings like hate any longer as that takes a lot out of you that can be better redirected into replacing with a more fulfilling, flavorful liquid. A lot of re's, recycling is the key but regurgitating or reanimating is a no-no. Resolute! :D Recognition of something and portioning your reaction and measuring the scope and depth and shape, I can put a filter up, a see through wall and accept how strongly I feel and direct myself against that particular current, but constant perspiration from feeling the relentless odour, it just leaves a helpless hole where you stay at the bottom until you either seek to change your relationship with it or submerge further into whatever it has chipped away at away from what you assumed was its 'place' within your core. Hatred is opaque to me, once you have accepted you feel a massive murky mass against something, you can make a strategy where it does not have to dictate to you.


I agree that we are to control our hate and not let it control us.

To ignore what your reason and morals tell you what you should hate, would be you ignoring your own good advice.

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DL



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14 May 2017, 3:32 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
He liked wine well enough.
Maybe wrath is a better word than hate.I like the wrathful Jesus that kicked the money changers out of the temple.


Yes. He got angry on occasions. But anger does not equal "hate".


True. That is why they are not described the same way.

What triggers the anger if not hate?

Please do not get semantic on me.



Regards
DL


I am not.

You ARE playing semantics.



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14 May 2017, 4:27 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
He liked wine well enough.
Maybe wrath is a better word than hate.I like the wrathful Jesus that kicked the money changers out of the temple.


Yes. He got angry on occasions. But anger does not equal "hate".


True. That is why they are not described the same way.

What triggers the anger if not hate?

Please do not get semantic on me.



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DL


I am not.

You ARE playing semantics.


I see you could not dither out an answer to my simple question.

Regards
DL



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19 Jul 2017, 5:35 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Jesus seems to be saying that he is promoting division and war with a number of his sayings that pit father against son and brother against brother.

Jesus advocated division, war and hate; even as some think he preached to love our enemies.

Did Jesus hate and is hate thus a good character trait?

Regards
DL


Alright Love? :lol: Loving your hypnotic avatar.. now does Jesus hate things? Well, he crops up in all our Chirstian minds from different stargazing spectrums and times, and I hate the word hate, but yes, sometimes, hate is good if it is for a just cause.

Then you go on to discuss divissions between struggling societies such as the Trump admission of supporters, yes? so those who have come to hate Islamists and Mexicans are a mere fraction of the peace and upholding the court of law in this respect seems crass? I think we need to save 'The Wall', for another thread.

The only love that could ever save us, was the love of a preacherman? is this true? If you are implying that our Lord Jesus Christ 'hated non fellow Jews',etc, then you are questioning the message of symbolic love?
People hate, love, hate to love, like, don't like, preach on topics of disimilar interest then pursue it with a similar topic of interest, so the world carries on.

I can understand that some members feel segregated atm, and I do not wish to accerbate this situation into a bigger problem on the board that those who are meant to feel shunned and do, should, so anyone who needs to clarify an appeal of thier own, should feel free to do so, unless it impacts on the grander and bigger scheme of other unworldy things, that our poor pitter patter of helpless tattered feet can cateogorically deny.



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19 Jul 2017, 5:42 pm

Brainfre3ze_93 wrote:
Not entirely, what the verse is saying is that his words will cause division between people. Jesus's teachings were not exactly popular, and he is saying that if you follow me certain relationships will falter. (including familial relationships, remember many people who were followers of Jesus had Jewish backgrounds) Which is exactly what many family members of Jesus's disciples try to convince them that following Jesus wasn't worth it, and will keep them away from God. Even though they believe Jesus when he said he was the begotten son of God, and he is the way to God.


Precisely. And this entire thread is the result of people making assumptions based on simplistic popular impressions and hateful propaganda, without actually studying the source material they've chosen to ridicule.


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19 Jul 2017, 6:10 pm

And this entire thread is the result of people making assumptions based on simplistic popular impressions and hateful propaganda, without actually studying the source material they've chosen to ridicule.



I believe the OP artists impressions of 'highlighted propaganda', for a Jesus thread are rembrandted enough by the OP to have her/his suggestions heard, and not to be rechanelled nor segrated from layer upon layer of double scrutiny upon purely rhetorical means, to hard line a Jesus thread on this basis.



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19 Jul 2017, 6:36 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
He liked wine well enough.
Maybe wrath is a better word than hate.I like the wrathful Jesus that kicked the money changers out of the temple.


Yes. He got angry on occasions. But anger does not equal "hate".


True. That is why they are not described the same way.

What triggers the anger if not hate?

Please do not get semantic on me.



Regards
DL


I am not.

You ARE playing semantics.


I see you could not dither out an answer to my simple question.

Regards
DL




No need to answer it because obviously anger is not necessarily triggered by hate.

And stop projecting your own semantic games on me.



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20 Jul 2017, 10:50 am

"The Bible" is a Big Poem, overall. Words are metaphors as human abstract constructs built to share perceived essence with other humans. Humans are not rational at core as currently shown by Science. And even if one takes 'those' verses literally, which of course comes in handy when spreading a Roman Empire by Force; conversely, per John 14:12, if Jesus really did hate his family and sisters and brothers and literally promote the hating of even one's own children too; if he didn't really have any at the time; if one were to disagree with his way of life and even promote the literal slaying of others if they didn't too; which surely can be interpreted that way if those associated verses are to be taken literally too; still, if one takes John 14:12 literally too that says one too can/will do greater works than so-called Jesus if one truly believes in his teachings at core that means that one can live without Hating if one has enough rationality in the physical and emotional intelligences of regulating one's emotions and integrating one's senses to be Hate free; thereby, doing Greater Works than Jesus as Hate serves no purpose for a rational heart. In, Fact, the stress associated neurohormones that come as Anger like cortisol, even in a Martial Arts contest that lasts a while, will end in defeat for the one who succumbs to eventual exhaustion from the influx of stress related Neurohormones per the Human Emotion of Anger.

In other words, even Bruce Lee did 'John 14:12'; as he we would have never succumbed to turning Money Tables over; he would have used a skilled and wise tongue instead as "being the water", too. Grow, grow more wisdom as 'they' say.

Oh, by a way, historically speaking, writers are generally more introverted and vocal speakers are generally more extroverted, so in this way; overall, historically what we have of written wisdom is biased in this way. And any potential that we have of more than 18 Percent of the words of any one man in the New Testament as Scholarly University Divinity School shows; chances are we have even less from an extroverted Teacher on a Mount of Powerful voice that would not likely ever come from an introverted writer, as such. Just speculation too on that and an educated guess too from dealing with around 200K folks in my life; most more face to face than in writing too.

Live
and
Learn;
Your will your choice
but most importantly
your Heart and Love or not as a
Fuller Potential Human condition goes as greater in terms of works of Life as Love.

Considering, the time that Jesus lived in; one of illiterate Aramaic oral Tradition; and considering that Paleontology suggests he was no more than about Five Feet tall and around a Hundred Pounds or so with shortly cropped hair as was the cultural requirement at that time; and somewhere around the looks of a person from Syria, no longer allowed in this country; and of course in a very patriarchal society at age 30, if he wasn't married, he would have been looked upon as lesser than a man in those days and these days in 'Trump ways' and of course the Biblical Scholastic Study at University Divinity School level of what is the Bible today indicates that there were many oral traditions of Christianity per different sects ranging from the belief in one God to Twelve Gods spread on desert roads for decades after a man now named Jesus died.

The Literate Greeks cherry picked what they liked of those oral traditions and wrote them down; including what we see of the Gnostic Gospels that are not currently included in the Old and New Testaments. The only reliable accounts in the actual New Testament from a man actually identified as actually living; may be those of Paul, formerly known as Saul getting 'his New Testament' from a 'poetic heart' then as all real artful poets do.

And of course the Nicene council voted to turn Jesus into three Gods in one as a Trinity as such in 325 AD and promote him to a Soldier Sun God of the Entire reality of existence that now includes a Kingdom of at least a Quadrillion or so number of stars and so many more planets that likely have life more intelligent than what might be as relative plankton life on earth as human potential now.

Surely, we have a place bigger as view in reality overall now than a patch of flat earth land in the Middle East, then. But as 'they' say they knew not what they did then too; so who can blame them for promoting their Quarterback to the greatest team ever in existence then. Sure, I for one can understand that with a little cognitive empathy too without getting angry and perhaps even doing the craziest thing I can possibly imagine in my opinion of wasting my emotional energy on hating them, too.

"Chi", in 100 percent positive emotional and sensory flow of energy of what I name too as the Personal Flow of real Faith and Pure Love with no negativity at all is what drives me away from anything associated with negative emotions and senses, including Anger and hate; albeit, I am only human and this takes the emotional regulation and sensory integration in what might be termed as a 'great work' of that in John 14:12 metaphor ways of ballet/tai-chi/martial arts-like free verse Style Public Dance for 7700 Miles now in 47 months.

Some Autistic folks name this as stimming in their own particular way of doing it; finding it also allows them to regulate their emotions and and integrate their senses too; potentially becoming "Autistic Super Men and Women", in this way too, in Nietzsche "Overman" speak too. Anyway, science now shows the old/new Eastern Philosophies left out of the Bible almost entirely in the Arts of Healing Movement really work and Therapists are using these therapies to cure emotional and sensory problems as we speak in writing ways over verbal ones as introverts often do over greater therapists too.

Works for me; came all innately, instinctually and intuitively as it does in stimming ways for many other Autistic folks who do whatever art of movement that works for them. Quiet hands and Feet are no rational option for the Human Heart as far as much greater Potential Emotional and Sensory Intelligences come with the art of moving now. After all, Planets do it around stars; we 'should' use 'their' consistent example for balance too; as above so below in esoteric terms too; sure, you can even find that in the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas too; truly some time tested philosophy in that 'book' too with real life application that really work still now; but only common as these archetypal wisdoms come from almost all cultures; again; Wisdom 101; the Wisdom counts more than the individual representative of the HUman DNA that comes next or before.

And back more to topic 'back then' at hand and hearts too; after 'that' historically, in Bible writing ways, considering there were no Xerox Machines as scribes copied the text from hand to hand and different minds to different minds for Centuries of mistakes and at least some 'spur of the moment', Saul the Paul-like inspired poetic words to change "this or that" for whatever the Creative Spirit at the time moved them not much different really than writing a story anew now; things changed a lot as they do change even in a round table discussion on desert roads that arrived at what are written words as the Greek Scribed Gnostic Gospels too between the first and second Century or so far after the physical presence of the man name Jesus died so far before those written days of Greeks with literate scribing ways.

Things is, we are all human. Yes, we all share almost all of the same DNA, with the Environment of Culture as spoon-fed from birth telling us this or that of what it takes still to be successful in survive and thrive now; and even as science is now starting to show, we all Still share overall similar inherited archetypes of subconscious mind; particularly, s most common one about 'the Hero' moving from challenge of dark and coming out on the other side as light (ascension; reborn; phoenix rising from the ashes; etc.. etc.. etc.. et al) and sharing that with the village or the city or the world in how some folks do, online these days. So, what this means is; really, if 'it' makes sense and good feel no matter who brings the wisdom; if it's good stuff it reasonably can and will be shared in places that and who honor Freedom of Human expression when no violence or 'hate speech' is incited.

It makes no sense to hate my friend. And it really makes no sense to get angry if one can use positive emotions and rationality to make a better case for life. It's something that really smart people do across the life span in greater human potential in the metaphor of "John 14:12" ways of doing greater human works of Love. And it's worth noting that if you are a really literally minded person that art is sixty percent of smart; and perhaps that is no coincidence my friend. Matter of fact and feel and sense you can make 'it' holy and sacred and full of meaning purpose if you so will and choose to do that.

Perhaps it is magic. But for now at least, I don't want to move off topic.

Have a nice Day; expand your horizons of love or not; again, your choice
to move ahead or stay with 'his' history; and never make your greater own. If
Jesus was/is a 'real man'; he would and will be a little bit more like Bruce Lee
as John 14:12 says and truly suggest that you can 'Lucifer' do more, with continuing Smiles. 'Men' do this.

I more enjoy the interpretations provided and individually made of what still exists of whoever wrote and created the stories of Jesus that makes Jesus into a Good Cop instead of Bad cop but you see; life overall, is An 'ink blot test' that reflects what and who we are inside. Often those results do appear on Written pages too. So, let it be written more than likely it was already done too; and it is clear than many so-called Christians and yes, of course, Gnostic Christians too as the record now shows do most definitely see a Bad Cop Jesus, still.

And oh, by the way, don't even try to play semantics with me, either; sure, you can but it will not work, as i just finished writing a 1.82 Million word longest long form poem ever in 13.6 months that I also call a bible as it arises to that occasion in technical speak in history of poetry too. I'm not a very literal person and I am a very literal person too, as i Will Free.

In other words, I can write a science abstract too; but that bores me; that bore me until my spirit dies; so, i write poetry of Song and Dance Free Verse too, and Live, instead. I didn't plan to drop by today, but just an inkling literally so in ink as Spirit now sparked me that I might expand one's horizons as before mentioned per what science now sees of the human condition in terms of emotions ruling logic; not likely, not likely at all as beliefs at core are emotions and so are humans as emotional creatures too, so, what's a Scientist and Artist of Human to do but hope, my friend, with perhaps a prayer for affirmation. Not likely hear but never the less; muse enough for somewhere else.

Again, Have a nice now;
even Love; but only if one wills.


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20 Jul 2017, 12:06 pm

Jesus got angry at the money lenders in the temple. Lost it.

Besides that I don't know of him getting angry.

The Old Testament God Jehovah was a much more angry, and vengeful, character than either Jesus, or Jehovah himself was in the New Testament. As Lewis Black suggested "maybe God took anger management classes" during the intertestament period, or maybe "the birth of his son calmed him down".

So comparatively speaking Jesus was lacking in hatefulness. And even God the Father was a nicer version of his former self (at least until you get to Revelations).