Gay Trump Supporter Claims He Was Discriminated

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kraftiekortie
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22 Jun 2017, 12:14 pm

Racism is a "learned trait." I've never known a racist under the age of about three years.

Without input from parents and others, children are "colorblind."



Kraichgauer
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22 Jun 2017, 12:26 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for when will it end? When there are no longer any humans.

Humans are irredeemable? Do you view racism as an inherent trait or as a learned response?
Even as an agnostic, untrusting of my fellow man, I can see some glimmer of hope. In a distant future.


Kraichgauer wrote:

In the case of the industrialized west, where whites are the majority and have most of the power, and where conservatives are the bloc yearning for the "good old days," even if those good old days were plagued with racism and other forms of discrimination, then the answer is essentially, yes.


That is a rationalization. The Reagan years were nothing like that.


We are not redeemable by ourselves. I look to the carpenter's son for that.
I'm a Lutheran, so what can I say, other than that I'm very pessimistic about any goodness coming from human nature.
In regard to the good old days: there has always been racism, even under the Reagan years. Maybe not as bad as other times in the past, but certainly things weren't coming up roses for minorities back in those days. My initial point was, instead of looking to the flawed past, we should always be looking forward to the potential betterment of the future.


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22 Jun 2017, 12:29 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for when will it end? When there are no longer any humans.

An unintentionally-accurate answer, for how a Maoist struggle session ends.


Look at my response to Shrapnel, and I doubt you'll see anything Maoist about it.


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friedmacguffins
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22 Jun 2017, 1:57 pm

I have people around me, in person, who can question the literal measuring tape, levels, scales, and so on.

So, what is the class warfare narrative called, nowadays, if not a Maoist struggle session? There are probably dozens of expressions, in which a dictatorship of the proletariat shouts-down the old guard.

Do you think it was against the rules, for a cultural conservative to admit to cultural biases? I have some. Was it not obvious?

Now what?

To each, his own, is all I have asked.

Every needful thing has been done privately, before. If you don't like me, don't ask. What is the problem.



Kraichgauer
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22 Jun 2017, 2:01 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
I have people around me, in person, who can question the literal measuring tape, levels, scales, and so on.

So, what is the class warfare narrative called, nowadays, if not a Maoist struggle session? There are probably dozens of expressions, in which a dictatorship of the proletariat shouts-down the old guard.

Do you think it was against the rules, for a cultural conservative to admit to cultural biases? I have some. Was it not obvious?

Now what?

To each, his own, is all I have asked.

Every needful thing has been done privately, before. If you don't like me, don't ask. What is the problem.


I was talking about my pessimistic view of human nature, and in particular, one of it's uglier manifestations, racism. What does that have to do with any sort of Maoist totalitarian philosophy?


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friedmacguffins
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22 Jun 2017, 2:37 pm

Do you know the origin of the word racism? In Russia, Communism was considered a foreign interest. So, they accused dissenters of racism. Racism is a comparatively-new word.

Tribalism and familiarity are as natural as any herd or hive of animals. I expect people to favor their own. Other people, too. I, for one, asked inappropriate questions, in the second grade, before any of my relatives opened-up about that. It was left up to me, to decide. My parents were then, and still are, adamant liberals. Adamant. :roll: This was not a product of my upbringing.

Rand called it objectivism. Are you not?

As for a struggle session, it is mainly intended to shame a person, publicly, and wear him down. You know I stand by my beliefs. Were you sincerely curious, and intending to learn something? Or, was it a grand stand.



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22 Jun 2017, 6:15 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Do you know the origin of the word racism? In Russia, Communism was considered a foreign interest. So, they accused dissenters of racism. Racism is a comparatively-new word.

Tribalism and familiarity are as natural as any herd or hive of animals. I expect people to favor their own. Other people, too. I, for one, asked inappropriate questions, in the second grade, before any of my relatives opened-up about that. It was left up to me, to decide. My parents were then, and still are, adamant liberals. Adamant. :roll: This was not a product of my upbringing.

Rand called it objectivism. Are you not?

As for a struggle session, it is mainly intended to shame a person, publicly, and wear him down. You know I stand by my beliefs. Were you sincerely curious, and intending to learn something? Or, was it a grand stand.


I'm not going by the Russian definition of racism.
Sure, we might have a natural instinct to stick with our own. But we aren't just dumb animals; we can overcome our prejudices. After all, a society that stays within it's own genepool stagnates. Hybrid vigour is a very real, provable thing.
I don't put much stock into any of that hateful old bat's ideas.
Of course I'll listen to any idea. But that doesn't mean I have to accept them.


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22 Jun 2017, 6:23 pm

EzraS wrote:
Ah so to avoid the chance of becoming allied with neo-nazis and the kkk, I should avoid becoming a conservative like the plague, correct?

I don't think anyone is going to change the way you are conditioned. It's just a question of accepting how the world really is. You can keep being who you are.

For instance Trump's father was an "active" member of the KKK. While Trump may not share the same doctrinal beliefs it's quite clear he has inherited at least some of his father's conservative values toward minority groups. No amount of left wing protesting is ever going to change Donald Trump's social views.The safest course of action with a cancerous tumor is to remove it (in case you read into the metaphor I'm only saying Trump leave politics and go back to real estate and under-aged beauty pageants).



kraftiekortie
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22 Jun 2017, 6:34 pm

It's really not good to attribute the sins of the father to the son.

It's like passing debts from father to son, or from mother to daughter, or whatever.

I believe Trump is many things. He is the Second Coming of Bozo.

But I don't believe he is a white supremacist or anything. He's a businessman, who believes in dog-eat-dog.



cyberdad
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22 Jun 2017, 6:38 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It's really not good to attribute the sins of the father to the son.

It's like passing debts from father to son, or from mother to daughter, or whatever.

I believe Trump is many things. He is the Second Coming of Bozo.

But I don't believe he is a white supremacist or anything. He's a businessman, who believes in dog-eat-dog.


Lets face it, most of us "left wingers" haven't inherited our parents more conservative views on the church. gays or other minorities. I was pointing out that Trump is no different and he is his own person. However it's also naive to not expect some influence of his father's values in Trump's social outlook, it's self-evident no?



kraftiekortie
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22 Jun 2017, 6:41 pm

It's possible. But who really knows?



EzraS
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22 Jun 2017, 9:41 pm

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Ah so to avoid the chance of becoming allied with neo-nazis and the kkk, I should avoid becoming a conservative like the plague, correct?

I don't think anyone is going to change the way you are conditioned. It's just a question of accepting how the world really is. You can keep being who you are.

For instance Trump's father was an "active" member of the KKK. While Trump may not share the same doctrinal beliefs it's quite clear he has inherited at least some of his father's conservative values toward minority groups. No amount of left wing protesting is ever going to change Donald Trump's social views.The safest course of action with a cancerous tumor is to remove it (in case you read into the metaphor I'm only saying Trump leave politics and go back to real estate and under-aged beauty pageants).


WHAT’S TRUE: A 1 June 1927 New York Times article named Fred Trump among individuals arrested after a “near-riot” involving the KKK and New York City policemen at a “Memorial parade.”

WHAT’S FALSE/UNDETERMINED: Fred Trump was a KKK member or supporter; Fred Trump was charged with a crime in connection with the KKK event.

http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-father-kkk-1927/



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22 Jun 2017, 11:48 pm

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Ah so to avoid the chance of becoming allied with neo-nazis and the kkk, I should avoid becoming a conservative like the plague, correct?

I don't think anyone is going to change the way you are conditioned. It's just a question of accepting how the world really is. You can keep being who you are.

For instance Trump's father was an "active" member of the KKK. While Trump may not share the same doctrinal beliefs it's quite clear he has inherited at least some of his father's conservative values toward minority groups. No amount of left wing protesting is ever going to change Donald Trump's social views.The safest course of action with a cancerous tumor is to remove it (in case you read into the metaphor I'm only saying Trump leave politics and go back to real estate and under-aged beauty pageants).


WHAT’S TRUE: A 1 June 1927 New York Times article named Fred Trump among individuals arrested after a “near-riot” involving the KKK and New York City policemen at a “Memorial parade.”

WHAT’S FALSE/UNDETERMINED: Fred Trump was a KKK member or supporter; Fred Trump was charged with a crime in connection with the KKK event.

http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-father-kkk-1927/


Fred Trump may not have been a member of the KKK when arrested during a riot that organization had caused, just as Joseph Stalin may not have been behind the purges in the Soviet Union... however unlikely that would appear for those who traffick in reality. :P


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friedmacguffins
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24 Jun 2017, 11:19 am

friedmacguffins wrote:
Do you know the origin of the word racism? In Russia, Communism was considered a foreign interest. So, they accused dissenters of racism. Racism is a comparatively-new word.


Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm not going by the Russian definition of racism.


There is an assumption that cultural and fiscal conservatives are biased, automatically, against other races.

There is nothing hateful or sadistic about saying that charity starts at home.



friedmacguffins
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24 Jun 2017, 11:28 am

Quote:
WHAT’S TRUE: A 1 June 1927 New York Times article named Fred Trump among individuals arrested after a “near-riot” involving the KKK and New York City policemen at a “Memorial parade.”

WHAT’S FALSE/UNDETERMINED: Fred Trump was a KKK member or supporter; Fred Trump was charged with a crime in connection with the KKK event.

http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-father-kkk-1927/


There is a contentious claim, in which Margaret Sanger lectures women of the Klan.

The KKK was originally a Democratic institution, btw, Lincoln being a Republican, who at least pandered to black people.

Democrats believed that blacks were weeds and just used to undermine labor.

So, which political wing should be more concerned about Klan affiliation.