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NewTime
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20 Jun 2017, 10:03 am

Creationists think it includes abiogenesis, planet formation, star formation and the Big Bang. Creationists commonly think that these things are included in the theory of evolution.



kraftiekortie
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20 Jun 2017, 10:07 am

But they usually believe the whole shebang was activated by some sentient "god" or "gods."



Wolfram87
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20 Jun 2017, 2:35 pm

Yes they do, and that's another helping of things they're wrong about.


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20 Jun 2017, 3:11 pm

i've seen a number of people claim that evolution, at least in contrast to creation is an uncontrolled random process, where that doesn't really seem to be the case. (this is what i perceive)


it's true that evolution is not intelligent and there is no goal in mind, but at the same time it's not wholly unpredictable.


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20 Jun 2017, 3:31 pm

Kiprobalhato wrote:
i've seen a number of people claim that evolution, at least in contrast to creation is an uncontrolled random process, where that doesn't really seem to be the case. (this is what i perceive)


it's true that evolution is not intelligent and there is no goal in mind, but at the same time it's not wholly unpredictable.

We can predict which mutations will survive and which will fail. They happen randomly, though, but we don't notice the ones which have no effect. The ones that survive seem logical in retrospect, but other logical adaptations don't happen. Hence, mass extinctions.


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20 Jun 2017, 6:09 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Kiprobalhato wrote:
i've seen a number of people claim that evolution, at least in contrast to creation is an uncontrolled random process, where that doesn't really seem to be the case. (this is what i perceive)


it's true that evolution is not intelligent and there is no goal in mind, but at the same time it's not wholly unpredictable.

We can predict which mutations will survive and which will fail. They happen randomly, though, but we don't notice the ones which have no effect. The ones that survive seem logical in retrospect, but other logical adaptations don't happen. Hence, mass extinctions.


in retrospect, evolution seems so perfect, one migh think it was planned by a supernatural being - you know, how always exactly those darwin finches survived who had the fittest beaks...

snark aside, creationism is basically a strong anthropic principle, justified through myth, and evolution is basically a weak anthropic principle.


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21 Jun 2017, 2:07 am

Personally I only listen to erudite creationists. Why people choose the ignorant ones to quote seems suspicious to me.

I'm sure one could easily interview people on the street who believe in the theory of evolution, but not really know a much if anything about it, in order to portray evolutionists as idiots.

Why resort to that type of agenda?



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21 Jun 2017, 5:45 am

EzraS wrote:
I'm sure one could easily interview people on the street who believe in the theory of evolution, but not really know a much if anything about it, in order to portray evolutionists as idiots.
That was already done in Ken Ham's documentary.


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EzraS
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21 Jun 2017, 7:51 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I'm sure one could easily interview people on the street who believe in the theory of evolution, but not really know a much if anything about it, in order to portray evolutionists as idiots.
That was already done in Ken Ham's documentary.


I figured it had been. That tactic can be applied to many issues.



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21 Jun 2017, 8:52 am

EzraS wrote:
Personally I only listen to erudite creationists. Why people choose the ignorant ones to quote seems suspicious to me.

There is no choice. All creationists are ignorant. Prove me wrong.



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21 Jun 2017, 9:16 am

There are times when creationists attempt to mesh the creation myth with evolution.

Yep...this gives credence to evolution, a fine complement to the preponderance of the evidence for evolution's existence, and a corresponding lack of evidence for the existence of the creation myth.

My feeling: as long as it doesn't harm somebody, believe in "creationism" all you want. Just don't commit atrocities of any type in the name of that ideology.



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21 Jun 2017, 12:14 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Personally I only listen to erudite creationists. Why people choose the ignorant ones to quote seems suspicious to me.

There is no choice. All creationists are ignorant. Prove me wrong.


There's no way to prove an evaluation. I could present someone I evaluate as knowledgeable, but that wouldn't keep you from evaluating them as ignorant. However I'm sure there are plenty of people who learned all about the theory of evolution, but dismissed it. Just as I know there are many atheists who learned all about theology but dismiss the existence of god.



The_Walrus
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21 Jun 2017, 3:29 pm

EzraS wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Personally I only listen to erudite creationists. Why people choose the ignorant ones to quote seems suspicious to me.

There is no choice. All creationists are ignorant. Prove me wrong.


There's no way to prove an evaluation. I could present someone I evaluate as knowledgeable, but that wouldn't keep you from evaluating them as ignorant. However I'm sure there are plenty of people who learned all about the theory of evolution, but dismissed it. Just as I know there are many atheists who learned all about theology but dismiss the existence of god.

Provide me with a person who rejects the theory of evolution and doesn't make basic errors while they do so.



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21 Jun 2017, 9:22 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
EzraS wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Personally I only listen to erudite creationists. Why people choose the ignorant ones to quote seems suspicious to me.

There is no choice. All creationists are ignorant. Prove me wrong.


There's no way to prove an evaluation. I could present someone I evaluate as knowledgeable, but that wouldn't keep you from evaluating them as ignorant. However I'm sure there are plenty of people who learned all about the theory of evolution, but dismissed it. Just as I know there are many atheists who learned all about theology but dismiss the existence of god.

Provide me with a person who rejects the theory of evolution and doesn't make basic errors while they do so.


Any points brought up by those who reject would automatically be evaluated as flawed by those who accept.



The_Walrus
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22 Jun 2017, 5:42 am

No more excuses. In your opinion, who is the least-ignorant creationist? Who should people be responding to? Who are these erudite creationists you hold up as great examples?