Our Ancient Origins?

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The mechanism is, of course, the usual one. The general population that benefits from inventors has to have a corresponding general tolerance for eccentricity, and a propensity for sexual novelty. Attraction is very mysterious, and odd combinations appear frequently. I assume that many others remain obscure, like several of my own romantic encounters.

Neanderthals seemed to have had a slightly different "biopsychology" to that of us (and that of anatomical moderns of the Paleolithic). They lived in smaller sized bands than did anatomical moderns, and relied less on resourced traded from afar, and seemed to have been less into "networking" than modern people.

Neanderthals were well adapated to Ice Age Europe, and survived a long time, but then the anatomical moderns invaded Europe from the east and drove the Neanderthals to extinction, but not before doing some interbreeding with the Neanderthals. So a tincture of Neanderthal DNA survives to the present. And the suggestion is that the normal behavior of Neanderthals was similar to the behavior of aspies today. Ergo aspies may have inherited some of the DNA coded biopsychology of the Neanderthals- which is why they/us ARE aspies.

The theory has some logic. Not sayin I truly buy into it. But its interesting.

But on the other hand I doubt that the normal behavior of the typical Neanderthal could have been like that of modern day hard core low functioning autistics.

I really doubt that anyone has claimed that.

According to the biological species concept, if two taxa can produce viable offspring then they are not separate species.

If there are descendants of Neanderthals, then they have NOT gone extinct.

All you have are populations that diverged over time and then came back into contact.

Why would you say low functioning? There is nothing to indicate low functioning, just different. They were very high functioning for their environment.

Science has found traces of interbreeding with other hominids as well. Most of our genes come from one line, but there's a "fossil hunt" going on in our DNA now. Homo Sapiens turned out to be the most adaptable, taking over all the other territories one way or another. One exception may be the Sasquatch, which seems to be mostly nocturnal and an absolute master at avoiding trackers.

All modern birds are descended from Archteopteryx (however its spelled). But Archeopteryx is still extinct. Even if you can say (by taking a certain poetic license) that archeoperyx still "lives on" in the thousands of species of living birds today.

People who are classifiable as anatomical Neanderthals don't stand in the checkout line of your grocery store today.

The bones of folks with heavy limb bones, no chins, forward jutting jaws, beetle brows, and other traits that go with being a classic anatomical Neanderthal thrived for a 100 thousand years in Ice Age Europe. But they (and their distinctive tool culture) both abruptly vanish from European caves around 35 thousand years ago, and were just as abruptly replaced by the anatomically modern Cro Magnon folks at that time. So humans classifiable as Neanderthal are indeed "extinct". The fact that some of us today have one, or two, percent, Neanderthal DNA doesn't change that.

You kinda lost me about "low functioning". The normal Neanderthal may have had a bio-psychology that we would consider other than normal today, but it would have been both normal and functional for them. I was guessing that that biopsychology may have been like modern high functioning autistics or aspies. But even Neanderthals needed better social skills than those possessed by some extreme low functioning autistics of today to survive.

I just don't see the "autism" in the Neanderthals. One had to cooperate in order to survive in the Ice Age and hunt big game. One could not be "overwhelmed" as a Neanderthal, so "overwhelmed" that they, say, "stim" because of the "sensory overload" involved in a goring attack from a rhinoceros (or what is involved in hunting, period).

I see more possibility of "autism" in the "anatomically modern" humans. Some of the Aspie-Autistic type within these bands could have become their painters and their shamans (related because the cave art is seen as having considerable religious significance).

Moreover---let's face it---an obsession with cereal grains (circa 12,000 BC) would have been seen as "weird" by hunter-gatherers. They wouldn't have seen any use in trying to become sedentary and domesticate the wild cereal grains. One had to have an odd proclivity, I feel, towards becoming sedentary, or seeking to render cereal grains edible. It took lots of research on this, I feel. Hunting would have reduced the time needed for this research. Perhaps this "Aspie-Autistic" types were exempt from the hunt so they could conduct this "research," or ply the shaman/artist trade.

I don' think that Extinct is an accurate classification for this. "Species" are only a snapshot in time for an evolutionary process that represents a continuum. Species are not actually real things.

I would hesitate to say this. How do you know that it was any more adaptable than other hominids, it could be that the gross physical anatomy H. sapiens has come to dominate for other evolutionary reasons, yet other taxa were as or more adaptable.

Nonsense.

Whether Neanderthals were a separate species from us, or not, is a running debate. The pendulum goes back and forth over the decades between calling them "Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis" ( a separate subspecies, but the same species as us), or whether to call them "Homo Neanderthalis" (a whole separate species from us).

But it pretty much proven that Neanderthals did not evolve into anatomical moderns. Anatomical moderns and Neanderthals lived at the same time. And then Neanderthals came to a dead end.

But either way- they were once here, and now........they aint here. Theyre gone. So regardless of whether they were a species or just a subspecies they are "extinct" and not "extant". Extinction is the proper word. Doesn't matter if they left DNA in our genome or not. The American Indians had dog breeds that are now said to be "extinct" even though dogs as a species are not extinct. The Mandan Indian tribe (of humans), and the aboriginies of Tasmania are also said to be "extinct" because no members of either group is around any more.

I've read that neanderthals were less sociable but never connected it to ASD. I think it's possible though.

"Nonesense" what a wonderful way to dismiss an arguement without using facts

A particular combination of genes within a population or a "species" may not exist anymore, but by the definition of a species, if it's genes still exist descendant it has not gone extinct, it has just changed over time.

If Neanderthals could produce viable offspring with "wise" man, then they are the same species and all you have is a change in the frequency of alleles.

Dogs still exist, but the particular combination of genes that occured in NA prior to European invasion does not exist anymore.

The branch of pigeons that was represented by Dodos is extinct, there are no existing descendants of that branch, none of the genes exclusive to that branch occur on the planet.

I guess you cant read.

AFTER I said "nonsense" I backed it by giving facts.

You counter my facts with irrelevant points.

I never said that Neanderthals were even a separate species from Homo Sapiens. But whether they are a separate species, or just a subspecies of the same species they are still...not around anymore.

So I use the common parlance (the parlance used by scientists as well as by regular folks) for "no longer exist" which is "extinct". The same term is used whether its a species, subspecies, breed, or even just an ethnic group. The Mandan Indian tribe no longer exists, and is said to be extinct. And the term "extinct" pre dated both Watson and Crick's discovery of DNA, and even predated Gregor Mendel, and was used in the 19th Century for fossil dinosaurs they began to find in the ground.

If you're claiming that Neanderthals are not extinct then show me a snapshots of these Neanderthal neighbors of yours who look like fossil Neanderthals of Middle Paleolithic Europe. And I don't mean the guys in that Geico commercial.

The point is that Neanderthals were a side branch that came to a dead end.

The branch apparently did not go SO far sideways that they could no longer interbreed with modern type humans. But as a recognizable phenotype they died out. And died out relatively suddenly.

That is the opposite of the likely truth. There would be no "sensory overload" in a dark cave. Though you might cough from the cooking fire.

In fact a Paleolithic cave shelter would be a great therapeutic refuge for a modern aspie to recover from sensory overload.

And that's the point.

We (NT, or aspies) are wired to actively use our senses to take in nature, and to look for both well hidden prey, and well hidden predators in the woods. And not block out the loud sensory inputs of civilization. And that's why modern folks take up birdwatching, fishing, or hunting, to recover from stress. Paleolithic folks didn't hang out in shopping malls and become overwhelmed with crowds, bright lights, and advertising that has to be actively blocked out. So I seriously doubt than anyone (Neanderthal or Anatomical modern) ever got "sensory overload" at any time during the stone age.

Whether neanderthals should be classified as Homo neanderthalensis or Homo sapiens neanderthalensis is still debated by scientists . However there is some evidence that offspring of neanderthals and modern humans were of reduced fertility or viability.

Also it is generally believed that neanderthals had had a harder time adapting to the colder climate. Their anatomy and diet, more than their suspected social ability might be the reason they have not been driven to complete extinction.

Remember the time people tried to blame seasonal mood disorders to neanderthal admixture?Apparently they hibernated.

The autism/neanderthal hypothesis, although neat, relies too heavily on speculation, not so much in evidence. It is still fun though.

Last edited by Spyoon on 04 Aug 2017, 9:11 am, edited 2 times in total.