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AutumnWind
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06 Sep 2017, 12:00 pm

People don't seem to understand me and I've recognized one of the reasons people don't seem to understand me is because when i speak i'm very factual when someone is being rude/mean i'm very fact based also and it turns into them perceiving it as a attack or me pushing them. When in reality i don't even understand how that's perceived as attacking or pushing when it's logical meaning i'm giving facts to better understand them and the misunderstanding so the problem doesn't happen again because isn't that good to do? Or is something about facts nerotypicals just find to complex or boring so much so apparently blaming me has become the "The big thing to do" That or i'm just not fit to be on this planet earth and i should ask NSA to take me to the moon. (Joking) but really, it's not something i understand.
I'm wondering if someone can explain why i can't use facts with them and if i can (i will it's my personality) then how do i do this without upsetting them?



Chichikov
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06 Sep 2017, 12:53 pm

To be fair people with ASD do this too and it's rife on this forum. If someone states something that isn't right, or an opinion based on wrong information and you correct their knowledge then people assume you are "against" them and they assume your own beliefs are the opposite of theirs.

To give some specific examples I corrected someone when they talked about extreme left wing politics which made people assume I was extreme right wing when all I was doing was correcting someone. When people say that the police unfairly target people of colour and your explain why that's proven not to be true they assume you support the police and that you're racist when, again, you're merely correcting someone. When people claim The Bible is against homosexuality and you explain that it isn't they assume you're a fundamentalist Christian. Correct someone posting lies about Trump and they assume you're a Trump supporter.

In this world trying to honour the truth is about one of the most dangerous things you can do.



AutumnWind
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06 Sep 2017, 1:49 pm

Chichikov wrote:
To be fair people with ASD do this too and it's rife on this forum. If someone states something that isn't right, or an opinion based on wrong information and you correct their knowledge then people assume you are "against" them and they assume your own beliefs are the opposite of theirs.

To give some specific examples I corrected someone when they talked about extreme left wing politics which made people assume I was extreme right wing when all I was doing was correcting someone. When people say that the police unfairly target people of colour and your explain why that's proven not to be true they assume you support the police and that you're racist when, again, you're merely correcting someone. When people claim The Bible is against homosexuality and you explain that it isn't they assume you're a fundamentalist Christian. Correct someone posting lies about Trump and they assume you're a Trump supporter.

In this world trying to honour the truth is about one of the most dangerous things you can do.


So are we all supposed to sitdown and never state fact?
i know that's not what you're saying but i guess my point is i'm lost on what to do because apart of who i am is stating fact. I'd love to one day be a philosopher that's probably way impossible but it'd be nice. I feel like it's not my nature to be something i am not that that would be to pretend i know nothing. but at the same time its hard either way. I'm on the spectrum and for me it's hard because i never learned how to socialize with others growing up.



Dear_one
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07 Sep 2017, 9:24 am

Scott Adams (Dilbert) points out that expecting people to be logical is a sure route to distress. He and many others have abandoned verifiable science completely, relying only on their impressions of other's opinions. Self-interest becomes a powerful subconscious filter on those "facts" and social media tends to keep us in a bubble of baseless confirmation, whatever our vision of reality may be.
For most people, facts are treated as rather fuzzy, since they can't evaluate them properly. They spend most of their mental energy keeping track of how other people feel about themselves to avoid wasting intended help. Recently, I made the mistake of advising against glossy black to reflect room lighting and probably lost a friend. Now, he won't even accept the mirrors I offered instead, because seeing me makes him feel stupid.



Chichikov
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07 Sep 2017, 10:25 am

Yes, I remember Scott Adams write that the worst thing you can use to try and explain a point is an analogy, as all the other person will do is focus on the bits of the analogy that don't fit. I find this to be very true in the real world.



muemmel
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07 Sep 2017, 10:52 am

AutumnWind wrote:
People don't seem to understand me and I've recognized one of the reasons people don't seem to understand me is because when i speak i'm very factual when someone is being rude/mean i'm very fact based also and it turns into them perceiving it as a attack or me pushing them. When in reality i don't even understand how that's perceived as attacking or pushing when it's logical meaning i'm giving facts to better understand them and the misunderstanding so the problem doesn't happen again because isn't that good to do? Or is something about facts nerotypicals just find to complex or boring so much so apparently blaming me has become the "The big thing to do" That or i'm just not fit to be on this planet earth and i should ask NSA to take me to the moon. (Joking) but really, it's not something i understand.
I'm wondering if someone can explain why i can't use facts with them and if i can (i will it's my personality) then how do i do this without upsetting them?


I've had literally the same issue. Often when leading discussions the people I talk to assume I want to prove them wrong when I just want to find out as much truth as possible. When there's facts that definitively support your arguments and you can state something as such (as much as that's possible) it seems to trigger a visceral response in all but the most enlightened or simple people. I won't exclude myself, though I've been working tirelessly to overcome it.

For some reason I haven't figured out yet, detached and sober conduct outside of the professional world (and even then there's a lot of exceptions) seems to emit an aura of assumed superiority. Often it's just that nobody likes to be wrong. Repeated encounters by 'subjects' with knowledgeable individuals develop aversions that are hard to overcome, also.

Lead me to become obsessed with trying to figure out a way to communicate correct information without ruining your reputation (which, alas, is incredibly important). It's very frustrating and there's certainly no panacea. Not even sure I can reach that goal through logic, as I've observed that most antipathy does get created through the illogical structure of people's psychologies and whatever their lived experience and education was.

Being able to empathize through instinct rather than logic might be a solution, but that I can't do.

Mighty tangent.

TL;DR: If you're asking yourself the question, don't bother trying to rectify it. I've become obsessed with figuring it out and it lead me to and through dark places.