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techstepgenr8tion
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23 Sep 2017, 3:49 pm

I'm not sure how to broach this one, give me your opinions if you think this topic is too controversial or dangerous. I'm at least putting it in In-Depth Adult Life Discussion because a) it's not for children and b) it's dealing with the emotional sticking points that can show up for people in their 30's and 40's.

A while ago, mainly in my early 20's, I figured out that the responsible use of psychedelics and sometimes dissociative psychedelics, were very healthy not just for changes of psychological scenery but also seeing deeper patterns in my own thinking that betrayed a lot that was running deeper under the surface. The later group have to be used descriminatively (ie. some dissociatives do have neurotoxicity issues and those are best to avoid altogether) and it takes careful research, even with the rest, to know safe dosage.

To this day I still think there's something to that and I've noticed that, in my own case, I've been able to process out a lot of the consequences of both suffocated life dreams and goals as well as frustrations with how the world actually works by means of being able to go into a state, access the symbolism that the deeper parts of my mind want to speak to me with, and working with that symbolism.

It's a bit like when you have enough actual life challenges and forms of repression going on because of that you rack up a growing list of ghosts wandering the catacombs of your being. When those ghosts start picking up momentum they start throwing your emotions into chaos. I've found certain ways to work with my own inner ghosts and specters in this way where, usually on a tryptamine, I'm able to endulge in some sort of internal activity that appeases them and helps ease the grinding between my conscious and subconscious mind. What I'm really coming to think in this regard is that our subconscious terrain stays pretty close to our genes whereas our conscious minds are more abstracted and free, and while our conscious minds can in certain respects inform and change opinions in the deep-web of our own consciousness the persuasion almost never happens just on convenience or pragmatic purposes, and typically it takes riding an emotional roller-coaster (knowingly) to let the accrued 'stuff' out.

Regardless I've been doing some pretty intense inner work over the last couple years, I'm continuing right now, and I'm switching also from dxm over to some of the research tryptamines that are out there (4 and 5 substituted series) both for body-load reasons and also that the former doesn't have good availability on its own.

What I'm learning is that with enough self-exploration of this sort I am cleaning out my basement, I'm reuniting the ghosts and specters, and it seems like I'm slowly making my subconscious structure more happy and harmonious with my conscious state than it's been for a while. It's as if I were neglecting a very close and dear family member (for which, in this case I think there's also an expectation that most people do ignore it as such) but that I've come through more, become more trust-worthy, and I'm really helping it solve problems and untie particular binds and lacunas that were causing a lot of internal tension.

My personal hope, on a different front, is that psychotherapy actually does start taking these things on again, in the way that they started to in the 50's and 60's but the party environment caused things like LSD, mushrooms, etc. to be made illegal. For what it's worth I've been donating to MAPS and Erowid recently because I think their work is too important to be ignored and I'm also seeing just how big of a problem it is, both for integrity and happiness, for people to be internally split or fractured.

That said I clearly don't know that I'd recommend this to other people - ie. everyone's brain chemistry is different, some people would be safe whereas others could have some serious mental illnesses exacerbated. I only felt safe going in this direction because I had an early history of contact with entheogens/psychedelics, knew my own body in this regard, and also have done the homework to see which ones are relatively safe as well as how often I'd dose, under what circumstances I'd dose, how much I'd dose, and if I were going to do some scary work or be involving myself with scary images (either on my computer or in my mind) that I knew that it would be challenging but not beyond my grip. As for moderation - I think once or twice per month on average is tops, the rest of the time I'm taking organic vitamins, B-vitamins, Kefir, magnesium, plenty of olive oil and moderate carbs in my diet, and generally treating my body and nervous system quite well so that it can integrate and resolve any shocks that it might have picked up during more rigorous work.

Anyway I'll leave it at that. I'd be curious to see what other people say on this, whether they're doing it, whether they're not, what their own thoughts on moderation are, etc..


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lorknozzel
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27 Sep 2017, 7:21 pm

I've gone down that road several times over the last 30 years, the learning curve can be nasty. While I appreciate that you are trying to go at things incrementally and at a reasonable pace, that doesn't always translate to good outcomes from any given experience. Even if you stay withing your tolerance for a substance and try your best to be prepared for the ride, sometimes it's just a combination of internal state and outside influences that will hand you the catharsis that seriously kicks your ass ;)

As you probably have noticed as you've looked into aboriginal uses of various substances for spiritual growth and self mastery, they always have some sort of shaman or elder whose responsibility it is to guide the neophyte through the process and to help them understand and make use of the experiences and the information that result from them. Sometime you just can't wrap your head around things after a deep spiritual dive, whether brought about by chemicals or completely natural methods. The shaman is the one driving the bus and making sure the proper rituals and attitudes are observed on the way in and on the way out. They make sure everyone is prepared for the journey, gets on where they need to, and gets off at the desired destination. Psychotherapists can serve that purpose in our society but there are also those practicing traditional shamanic arts even here in the states.

I think that too often people head into such pursuits not realizing that intent and mental and physical preparedness have as much or more to do with successful outcomes as proper dosage or familiarity with a substance. I'm not saying you're wrong in what you are doing, I'm just saying that given my experiences over the years, I would no more advise someone to take your approach than I would advise them to delve into deep self hypnosis without guidance and training first.

All that said, yes, I agree with you that there is great potential for the use of such things to more easily and precisely access states that lead to profound spiritual/emotional/psychological growth and healing. And for the last 30 years I can't remember a time when there weren't at least a few professionals and academics of good standing who were taking a serious look. It could come to be standard practice some day, stranger things happen all the time ;)



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27 Sep 2017, 8:46 pm

I have found psychedelics to be helpful and of course quite enjoyable, I have had acid(LSD) and psilocybin mushrooms and DMT....also MDMA but not sure that is exactly a psychedelic.

That said I haven't always used them responsibly, and I have had bad psychedelic experiences to. I do find when I trip I will feel mentally refreshed afterwards and have kind of an afterglow for a time, that helps put things into more positive perspective. But that is when I do it responsibly like once in a while, and have a good experience. There was a time in the past I was doing mushrooms too often and taking quite a bit each time if I remember right..and I was doing other drugs to, I guess it was a bit of a druggy phase. Trouble was I was trying to 'escape' far too much so I was overdoing things...during this period I had a pretty bad mushroom trip, it was horrifying but I think it had a lot to due with abusing them, seems psychedelics have a way of scaring the f*ck out of you when you need to change your ways. I think it was actually that trip that helped me realize something needed to change or I was going to ruin my life. Of course it took me quite a long time to figure out what to change I tried different things but I guess it just really opened me up to the fact I had a lot of issues and inner turmoil to address.

But yeah since that phase I have only done psychedelics occasionally, like maybe a couple or a few times a year. I do certainly find it beneficial, but I still acknowledge it's not for everyone.



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27 Sep 2017, 9:02 pm

I don't think that we should consider the topic too controversial, but since we are on a forum for people with various mental health concerns, we could cite Keith Richards:

Some people just shouldn't use drugs.

That said, I've had my own good and bad experiences with psychedelics, and witnessed others. I haven't used them in years. I read PIKHAL, and didn't feel any desire to try any more. I also supported EROWID during that period, and I'd send more money if I had more to send.

I might try some again, soon. I'd like to settle things in real life, first. That would represent a huge change from my teenage psychedelic use.


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29 Sep 2017, 2:00 am

I am far from being a prude, far, far from it but honestly LSD and mushrooms are bad, bad news and for anyone with additional mental health issues, well it is like pouring petroleum on a fire.

The other thing is that you never know who is reading this forum. I would be very careful If I was you before discussing illegal activities on the internet


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techstepgenr8tion
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29 Sep 2017, 2:37 am

I'd fully agree on the first part as I couched my post in precautions and I would not invite people to try such things, particularly those who don't already know their own bodies and reactions to said substances.

To the last part - I think this might be a much more sensitive issue for someone posting in the UK than someone in the US. In the UK, as far as I'm aware, pretty much anything psychoactive that isn't caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, or a prescription drug is illegal. In the US we have a significant block of in-between phases where there are plenty of psychedelics that can be obtained legally. Sure, talking about mushrooms and LSD gets very gray to talk about online or anywhere else because they are directly scheduled. In the sort of zone we're in right now they're serious offenses but 4-base tryptamines or alternate lysergamides are only illegal if sold for consumption. The later part almost seems like it's an experiment in measuring impact as well as watching all of the research chemical conversations on reddit.

For people in the UK who don't have particularly powerful underlying issues they could get the same results out of yoga, meditation, ceremonial magic, etc.. to a good degree with much fewer risks but even those activities come with the same warnings that you gave in the first part of your post - that they can exacerbate underlying mental illness.


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29 Sep 2017, 2:44 am

Voxish wrote:
I am far from being a prude, far, far from it but honestly LSD and mushrooms are bad, bad news and for anyone with additional mental health issues, well it is like pouring petroleum on a fire.

The other thing is that you never know who is reading this forum. I would be very careful If I was you before discussing illegal activities on the internet


You can't get in trouble for talking about past drug experiences, no one has any way to know if you're telling the truth or just making it up. Drugs don't stay in your body that long so what evidence would anyone have?



gamespeopleplay
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20 Dec 2017, 7:41 pm

Psilocybin mushrooms were the catalyst for me that lead to my diagnosis. Before i had tried anything mind altering i was your typical naive aspie bumping blindly through life, not understanding why i do things or what was going to happen in my life. After my first few experiences it's like my GPS turned on and started helping me structure some kind of roadmap as to where i should/could be in my life.

This was all maybe 5-6 years ago and i haven't really delved very deeply since, but i do strongly believe that they are quite helpful tools if used correctly. I lime to keep up with current research as a way to stay in the loop. I've been listening to https://psychedelicsalon.com/ recently which is a great resource for every psychedelically related.

Feel free to PM me if anyone wants to chat about their experiences



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21 Dec 2017, 12:38 am

Not a psychedelic, but Ketamine is a dissociative that's more commonly known as Special K on the party scene. It's being used in super low doses to treat depression, anxiety and PTSD and showing really good results. It's quite an exciting development. It works quicker than antidepressants and doesn't have the side effects they do.

https://www.webmd.com/depression/news/2 ... pression#1

http://www.howtousepsychedelics.org/ketamine/


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techstepgenr8tion
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21 Dec 2017, 7:25 am

bunnyb wrote:
Not a psychedelic, but Ketamine is a dissociative that's more commonly known as Special K on the party scene. It's being used in super low doses to treat depression, anxiety and PTSD and showing really good results. It's quite an exciting development. It works quicker than antidepressants and doesn't have the side effects they do.

Back when I was 20 I remember my friends getting that often. I think the thing that stunned me was seeing an article related to brain scans and psychedelics which mapped psilocybin, LSD, and ketamine actually showing ketamine to cause even more brain activity than the LSD. That's a bit confusing because from my recollection it was nothing like LSD. I could maybe intuitively see this being the case with DXM which has strong dual hallucinogenic and dissociative effects and almost jumps right in to religious experiences by high 2nd and early 3rd plateau but ketamine, for my handful of experiences with it, was more like the sort of pleasant stoning one might get on a heavy dose of valium or percocet.

I was listening to Sam Harris's podcast from yesterday with Bret Weinstein and someone in the audience asked why the condoning of drugs when, even if a broken monitor gave some interesting colors it was still a broken monitor, and both Sam and Bret chimed in on that one - Sam talking about the value of the experiences and Bret suggesting that psychedelics can help people take hold of intellectual and psychological property that typically resides out of reach when their in normal psychological states and, by his estimate, we will need people looking there for understandings of the human mind as well as new ideas if we're going to bootstrap society 2.0 in a way that works.

While I do get the impression that these chemicals need to be treated with great respect, ie. I could see using them too often contributing to problems like long-term neuropathy and the like, the occasional and highly reflective use seems like it's almost irreplaceable in terms of its deliverables.


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