Autism may be mercury poisoning after all...

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The_Face_of_Boo
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10 Oct 2017, 5:50 pm

I know so many "dogmatic" aspies reject this possibility but please read this:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 2X16300931

The recent studies are leaning way more on the enviromental factors rather genetics.

So for the dogmatic aspies (who believe AS is evolution): slow it down, stop being delusional; our condition is probably due to a chemical-induced mutation.


Quote:
"This review found 91 studies that examine the potential relationship between mercury and ASD from 1999 to February 2016. Of these studies, the vast majority (74%) suggest that mercury is a risk factor for ASD, revealing both direct and indirect effects. The preponderance of the evidence indicates that mercury exposure is causal and/or contributory in ASD."


What's more evidence is needed?



nurseangela
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10 Oct 2017, 5:54 pm

I never understood why mercury couldn't be a possibility. Mercury has been shown time and time again that it is a health hazard, but it is still put in vaccines. That is why I am totally against the flu vaccines.

And when I say this, I mean for the people with autism - the children who have a hard time communicating and are in their own world. High functioning AS could be genetic.


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naturalplastic
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10 Oct 2017, 6:43 pm

Your article says it probably a causal factor for some autism. Not that it is the one and only cause of all autism.

Does make you wonder mercury based vaccines though.



EclecticWarrior
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10 Oct 2017, 6:44 pm

While not entirely discounting the mercury theory (I believed it for many years), I do believe there is a genetic aspect in some families.


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mikeman7918
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10 Oct 2017, 6:58 pm

About the whole Mercury in vaccines thing, there is no molecular Mercury in vaccines. Yes, there is Formaldehyde which is a molecule that contains Mercury atoms but being in a molecule like that completely changes it's properties. That is how table salt can be made of Sodium and Chlorine without having the high explosive properties of Sodium or the toxic properties of Chlorine.

Vaccines do contain certain things that are toxic in high quantities but it's the dose that makes the toxin, things are not just simply "toxic" or "safe", just about anything is toxic if you have too much of it and anything is safe in small enough doses. Vaccines contain things that would be toxic if you had a bunch of it at once but at the doses involved thee risk is very small. Sure, people occasionally have an allergic reaction to a vaccine but that is vastly more preferable to the much greater risk of getting the disease you are being vaccinated against if you don't get the vaccine.

So yeah, Mercury might cause a higher risk of getting Autism for all I know but vaccines could not possibly be he source.


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Last edited by mikeman7918 on 10 Oct 2017, 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

B19
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10 Oct 2017, 7:10 pm

Publishing bias is real, in that studies finding no association are less often published or publicised. (Much less often). So there are other factors that affect even reviews like the one you posted, OP, because the negative evidence is not included. Neither of the links to the full text went anywhere for me, so could you post the full text please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publication_bias



Glflegolas
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10 Oct 2017, 7:28 pm

I honestly can't see your argument at all. If that were indeed the case, people who consumed more tuna fish (or other foods containing high amounts of dimethylmercury -- that's what's actually poisonous) would be more autistic than those that never ate tuna.

The entire mercury theory comes from vaccines, and that myth has been pretty much entirely debunked. I won't believe a word about "vaccination causes autism" until I see a research paper in a well-known journal and read it through thoroughly. AFAIK it was Donald Trump who made that famous in a tweet.

http://mashable.com/2017/01/10/donald-t ... pcU5YwfOqG

If we can avoid starting a political flamewar, I would be very happy.

FYI: Sticking your hand in metallic mercury isn't that dangerous. But breathing the vapours is bad, and one drop of dimethylmercury is said to be enough to kill an adult.


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QuantumChemist
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10 Oct 2017, 8:14 pm

mikeman7918 wrote:
Yes, there is Formaldehyde which is a molecule that contains Mercury atoms but being in a molecule like that completely changes it's properties.


Formaldehyde does not contain mercury atoms. It has a chemical formula of CH2O, as it is the simplest aldehyde. I think you were commenting upon the molecule thimerosal (chemical formula of NaHgC8H9O2S), not formaldehyde in the above statement. Thimerosal was/is used in certain medical shot solutions as a stabilizer.

But, you are right in that chelated (bonded) metal cations in compounds act differently than their non-ionized metallic forms. The main thing to think about with respect to the effect of mercury on human bodies is the blood-brain barrier. Atomic mercury can exist in the blood stream of exposed people. However, since the metal is not ionized, it cannot cross the blood-brain barrier to cause damage there. Unfortunately, certain bacterial can oxidize metallic mercury into mercury(I) which can cross the blood-brain barrier and then short circuit the nerve synapses. Too much of that at one time can lead to a progression of damage collectively known as Mad Hatter's disease. Mercury damage to young brains has been known to cause many potential health issues, including neurological problems.

I have first hand experience handling organomercury compounds in an experimental laboratory setting. I also worked with organocadmium and organolead compounds in the same research study. The first thing you learn is to never reuse any gloves while handling said materials. That is an easy route to personal contamination by those toxic materials.

Dimethylmercury has a special problem in handling. It can penetrate latex gloves and skin readily, on top of absorption by vapor. If I remember right, it is #2 or 3 on the most toxic compound list for humans. Better to use a nitrile-based glove when handling it or better yet, use a glovebox with negative pressure and multiple layers of thick rubber gloves.



mikeman7918
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10 Oct 2017, 10:49 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
Formaldehyde does not contain mercury atoms.

I must be thinking of a different molecule then.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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11 Oct 2017, 6:45 am

Glflegolas wrote:
I honestly can't see your argument at all. If that were indeed the case, people who consumed more tuna fish (or other foods containing high amounts of dimethylmercury -- that's what's actually poisonous) would be more autistic than those that never ate tuna.

The entire mercury theory comes from vaccines, and that myth has been pretty much entirely debunked. I won't believe a word about "vaccination causes autism" until I see a research paper in a well-known journal and read it through thoroughly. AFAIK it was Donald Trump who made that famous in a tweet.

http://mashable.com/2017/01/10/donald-t ... pcU5YwfOqG

If we can avoid starting a political flamewar, I would be very happy.

FYI: Sticking your hand in metallic mercury isn't that dangerous. But breathing the vapours is bad, and one drop of dimethylmercury is said to be enough to kill an adult.



What affects toddlers may not affect adults.



The_Face_of_Boo
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11 Oct 2017, 6:46 am

B19 wrote:
Publishing bias is real, in that studies finding no association are less often published or publicised. (Much less often). So there are other factors that affect even reviews like the one you posted, OP, because the negative evidence is not included. Neither of the links to the full text went anywhere for me, so could you post the full text please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publication_bias


https://ac.els-cdn.com/S0946672X1630093 ... 5ec5865a49

What you have to ask yourself, who's the stronger to cause this bias? The anti mercury in vaccines people or the mega-rich pharmaceutical companies?



hellhole
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11 Oct 2017, 10:56 am

Personally, I think at most cases of ASD are due to an genotype being intentionally put in the gene pool a long time ago; so basically what I'm saying is, someone out there somehow engineered a nervous system that includes traits like... inappropriate giggling, seeing connections in everything, and restricted interests etc. However, due to the unreliability of this, many individuals developed a form of intellectual and social impairment.

It can't be a coincidence that these very particular traits are possessed by people on the spectrum.

It's a bit far fetched, but I've heard some people say that the ultimate goal is to have everyone new born child become neuroatypical.


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zer0netgain
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11 Oct 2017, 11:35 am

And...of course...what might not harm the vast majority of infants might be the “tipping point” for infants with certain genetic markers.

Saying any drug or vaccine is pretty much laughable. How many have come with the FDA’s blessing only to be pulled in a few years? Even the “safest” of drugs have a small segment who suffer the adverse effects. It’s all about the laws of probability.

If there is a genetic causality factor, then a different protocol is needed, and if we can’t test for genetic causality, all should follow a more conservative protocol to help eliminate unintended complications.



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11 Oct 2017, 11:42 am

No, I will not read it. I do not need to read the latest bit of trash by the "experts" telling me the reason why I'm defective and have a horrible illness that makes myself and everyone around me miserable. :roll:

If that makes me "dogmatic: or whatever, then I plead guilty.



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11 Oct 2017, 12:43 pm

This garbage again. Not a single reputable scientist believes this nonsense. Dr. Wakefield was struck off for lying about it. Vaccines causing autism is up there with belief in Unicorns. I come from a long line of people with autistic traits and so will almost everyone on this forum. My autistic ancestors lived in times when there were no vaccines (and no they weren't involved in Mercury production). People are now diagnosed, because of medical understanding of the condition. That explains the 'increase'.



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11 Oct 2017, 12:49 pm

I might be dogmatic etc as well. I just don’t believe all this anti-vaccine stuff. All that scaremongering about MMR led to lots of children paying a high price because they never had the jab.
I believe that genetics caused my autism but I really don’t care too much. Too much money is wasted looking for causes which would be better spent on improving life for autistics. After all, we are not ill. Personally, I’d like to see more money spent on public education programmes to change negative attitudes to us, much like attitudes to things like smoking and speeding etc were changed (in the U.K.). Then again more money could be spent on educating autistic kids...the list could be endless.