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JohnPowell
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05 Nov 2017, 9:18 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It's just because you are unable to counter anything I said.


I wouldn't bet on that. I have chosen to refrain from an argument that has nothing to do with the subject at hand - a thing of which I and many others have been guilty of.


I wouldn't bet on something so easy. You can PM me if you're interested or start another thread.


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Kraichgauer
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05 Nov 2017, 9:20 pm

B19 wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oswald-cia-20171104-story.html

Latest files find no CIA link, the article reports.


I seriously doubt that the CIA of that time would have admitted any such connection. And even if he hadn't worked directly for the agency, there was always the possibility that he had been associated with the Anti-Castro radicals (such as David Ferrie and Guy Bannister in New Orleans) who had been sponsored by the CIA and organized crime without ever being regular CIA. That, and this new material actually contradicts the Warren Report, which stated Oswald had briefly been an informant for the bureau, but ended his relationship with them when he allegedly threatened to blow up their office for threatening to deport his wife.


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JohnPowell
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05 Nov 2017, 9:25 pm

The Warren Report was meant to look into whether Mosley or Rubenstein had links with organised crime, which they did. The 'report' found they didn't.


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Kraichgauer
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05 Nov 2017, 9:29 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
The Warren Report was meant to look into whether Mosley or Rubenstein had links with organised crime, which they did. The 'report' found they didn't.


Yes, the Warren report completely dismissed Ruby's ties to the mob, even though a senate committee not many years before in fact named him as an organized crime associate. I suspect they were denied access to Ruby's possible connection to gun running operations for the Anti-Castro underground in Dallas, which was sponsored by both the Mafia and the CIA.


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EzraS
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05 Nov 2017, 11:07 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Has to be deep classifed. A number of documentaries involving ballistics experts have demonstrated that Oswald was behind Kennedy (in the book depository) which mean't it was almost impossible for him to have blown the front of JFKs head. Notice the position of the book depository to Kennedy's motorcade
http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/ne ... d615320956

This video shows the shot that blew Kennedy's head (sorry for the graphic imagery)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hom6WUE60Wk

It's fairly clear the bullet from this fatal shot came from the front of Kennedy - direct opposite of where Lee Harvey Oswald was positioned in the book depository


The exit wound would be larger than the entry wound. So if the front of the head had the most damage, that would mean the bullet came from behind creating a smaller wound and exited out the front leaving a much larger wound.


Unless the bullet ricocheted off the inside of his skull and exited from the side the bullet entered.


The damage was actually more on the right side of the head, rather than the forehead or face. I remember one witness saying it looked like his ear exploded. So it seems like that could take place from a shot to the back or the front. It seems likely that Oswald fired the first two shots. The third and fatal one is pretty debatable.



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06 Nov 2017, 3:52 am

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Has to be deep classifed. A number of documentaries involving ballistics experts have demonstrated that Oswald was behind Kennedy (in the book depository) which mean't it was almost impossible for him to have blown the front of JFKs head. Notice the position of the book depository to Kennedy's motorcade
http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/ne ... d615320956

This video shows the shot that blew Kennedy's head (sorry for the graphic imagery)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hom6WUE60Wk

It's fairly clear the bullet from this fatal shot came from the front of Kennedy - direct opposite of where Lee Harvey Oswald was positioned in the book depository


The exit wound would be larger than the entry wound. So if the front of the head had the most damage, that would mean the bullet came from behind creating a smaller wound and exited out the front leaving a much larger wound.

But how to explain JFK's head rocking back when the bullet entered? I'm not an expert in ballistics but that doesn't make physical sense?



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06 Nov 2017, 5:05 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Has to be deep classifed. A number of documentaries involving ballistics experts have demonstrated that Oswald was behind Kennedy (in the book depository) which mean't it was almost impossible for him to have blown the front of JFKs head. Notice the position of the book depository to Kennedy's motorcade
http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/ne ... d615320956

This video shows the shot that blew Kennedy's head (sorry for the graphic imagery)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hom6WUE60Wk

It's fairly clear the bullet from this fatal shot came from the front of Kennedy - direct opposite of where Lee Harvey Oswald was positioned in the book depository


The exit wound would be larger than the entry wound. So if the front of the head had the most damage, that would mean the bullet came from behind creating a smaller wound and exited out the front leaving a much larger wound.

But how to explain JFK's head rocking back when the bullet entered? I'm not an expert in ballistics but that doesn't make physical sense?


I've heard it said that brain trama from the bullet could have caused the head to jerk or pivot all kinds of ways. I've watched the Zapruder film thoroughly in the past, and if i remember right, it seems the frame where impact takes place, shows blood etc shooting at a forward angle. Also Connolly commented on being covered in chunks of brain matter. I'm not entirely in support of third shot coming from behind, but I think it's possible.

One of the most interesting takes I saw was the theory that after the second shot, the secret service agent in the car behind, stood up and accidentally fired his high powered weapon hitting Kennedy. The autopsy procedure has a lot of controversy as well.



JohnPowell
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06 Nov 2017, 12:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
The Warren Report was meant to look into whether Mosley or Rubenstein had links with organised crime, which they did. The 'report' found they didn't.


Yes, the Warren report completely dismissed Ruby's ties to the mob, even though a senate committee not many years before in fact named him as an organized crime associate. I suspect they were denied access to Ruby's possible connection to gun running operations for the Anti-Castro underground in Dallas, which was sponsored by both the Mafia and the CIA.


Yeah perhaps.


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06 Nov 2017, 4:16 pm

EzraS wrote:
One of the most interesting takes I saw was the theory that after the second shot, the secret service agent in the car behind, stood up and accidentally fired his high powered weapon hitting Kennedy. The autopsy procedure has a lot of controversy as well.


Yes I saw that on TV. Makes sense. Oswald was taking pot shots from the book depository and one of his bullets may have grazed Kennedy but the fatal shot came from the panicked secret service agent. For security reasons it then makes sense the whole "muck up" would have been covered up and that's what Oswald was ranting about being a patsy as he knew he didn't fire the fatal shot that killed Kennedy.

In addition the embarrassment re: the level of intel the CIA and FBI had on Oswald mean't they were clearly negligent in their duty in not preventing the shooting - I suspect they were busy burying and burning evidence before the Warren commission that implicated the agencies in not doing enough (basically protecting their own)

What this theory doesn't explain is i) why Jack Ruby killed Oswald ii) how the governer of Texas was shot (magic bullet theory) and iii) why Jackie Kennedy-Onassis kept quiet about where the shooting came from?



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06 Nov 2017, 8:48 pm

cyberdad wrote:
What this theory doesn't explain is i) why Jack Ruby killed Oswald ii) how the governer of Texas was shot (magic bullet theory) and iii) why Jackie Kennedy-Onassis kept quiet about where the shooting came from?


1 and 3 I have no idea.

The magic bullet theory was based on thinking the governor was seated directly in front of JFK. But the way that limo was designed, he was actually sitting 6 inches to the left. So the bullet didn't really have to curve around.



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07 Nov 2017, 4:03 am

There's still the issue of Kennedy's fatal shot - the Zapruder film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU83R7rpXQY

There's no doubt in this high quality version of the original film reel the bullet was travelling from the front right hand side of JFK to the back (if you slow down you can actually see the bullet travelling from the front)

So unless there is a 1 in a million chance Oswald's bullet ricocheted from a lamp pole the shot was fired from somebody other than Oswald.



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07 Nov 2017, 6:11 am

cyberdad wrote:
There's still the issue of Kennedy's fatal shot - the Zapruder film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU83R7rpXQY

There's no doubt in this high quality version of the original film reel the bullet was travelling from the front right hand side of JFK to the back (if you slow down you can actually see the bullet travelling from the front)

So unless there is a 1 in a million chance Oswald's bullet ricocheted from a lamp pole the shot was fired from somebody other than Oswald.


And I think most likely, that shot was made by an actual professional shooter, which Oswald was not, most likely from the grassy knoll.


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EzraS
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07 Nov 2017, 7:55 am

I was thinking about making a bad joke that Kennedy committed suicide and then thought wait a minute, and sure enough :roll:

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2013/1 ... d-suicide/



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08 Nov 2017, 5:34 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
There's still the issue of Kennedy's fatal shot - the Zapruder film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU83R7rpXQY

There's no doubt in this high quality version of the original film reel the bullet was travelling from the front right hand side of JFK to the back (if you slow down you can actually see the bullet travelling from the front)

So unless there is a 1 in a million chance Oswald's bullet ricocheted from a lamp pole the shot was fired from somebody other than Oswald.


And I think most likely, that shot was made by an actual professional shooter, which Oswald was not, most likely from the grassy knoll.

So the grassy knoll was on the right or left side of Kennedy?



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08 Nov 2017, 5:48 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
There's still the issue of Kennedy's fatal shot - the Zapruder film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU83R7rpXQY

There's no doubt in this high quality version of the original film reel the bullet was travelling from the front right hand side of JFK to the back (if you slow down you can actually see the bullet travelling from the front)

So unless there is a 1 in a million chance Oswald's bullet ricocheted from a lamp pole the shot was fired from somebody other than Oswald.


And I think most likely, that shot was made by an actual professional shooter, which Oswald was not, most likely from the grassy knoll.

So the grassy knoll was on the right or left side of Kennedy?


Right side. Perfect sniper nest behind a wooden fence at the top.



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08 Nov 2017, 3:58 pm

So I guess the remaining question is who the shooter was?

JFK made a lot of enemies and his handling of the Cuban missile crisis or black civil rights might have made him seen as a loose cannon among his own people. Coincidence that the three other big assassinations in the 60s (Malcolm X, MLK and Robert Kennedy) all killed of potential future leaders who might have changed black civil rights in the country. Of the three Malcolm X was the most charismatic and being a high profile muslim probably posed the greatest security threat to the American social fabric