Seeking Advice: 39 year old w/ recently diagnosed Asperger's

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Hello all, thank you for having me in your community.

I'll try to keep this very long story brief

My brother in law is 39 years old and has recently been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. As I'm sure you can imagine, this has helped a lot of things finally make sense. Problem... aside from having Asperger's, he is a negative and depressed person with absolutely no desire to help himself in any way... which is causing much worry for my husband and I.

My husband and his brother lost their mother less than a year ago and their father (who is 82) fell into a deep depression and has now been given approximately 3 months to live. He never made a will and has no desire to... he has lost a great deal of his mental faculties over the last year. Long story short -- my brother in law lives with his father, he has never been on his own and when we try to talk to him about making some plans... he puts it off and/or argues. "I'll cross that bridge when it comes."

It has come -- the bridge is here!!

He does have a full time job and because he has lived with his family all his life -- he has plenty of money saved... his parents even paid for his bus pass and hair cuts, he has never paid for anything.

He refuses to see a therapist (he was diagnosed when my husband and I lived with him and his father recently to help them get the house in order, etc -- I begged him to please come with me to a psychiatrist... he only went with me and he only went during the few months I was there).

We will not be able to care for him after his father has passed away... we live 2,500 miles away, have been married less than a year, just started a business, bought a home, and are working on a family... so, we have no intention of uprooting our lives to go take care of him.

The problem is... there is 39 years worth of bad habits built up... his mother was severly OCD which he also has... of course he is very anti-social... he doesn't really know how to do anything at all unless he has been forced to do it and then it eventually becomes a habit, as long as it is repetitive, he can manage, but he says he doesn't like it. Doesn't like to work, doesn't like people, doesn't want to clean, it seems all he wants to do is sit in PJs and play on his computer.

We don't know what to do...

I have been trying to learn as much as I can about Asperger's Syndrome, I have been encouraging him to enjoy the beauty and love in his life, I have tried to help him view moving into an independent situation as exciting and positive... though I know he will likely need the help of a social worker and therapist -- but nothing works -- it seems he is bent on being exactly the way he is.

he doesn't seem to care that his dad has no will, the house *will* go into probate (and soon) and he *will* have to find a new place to live. I know he understands all of this -- when he does choose to discuss it, he seems to completely understand what's going on.

I am fighting *anger* and resentment. I know he needs help... but he is 39 years old and no one can force him. My husband and I are worried that we're going to have to take some drastic measure... have him seen by a phsychiatrist ordered by the court... something.

ANY advice would be so much appreciated... we don't know what to do and want the best for him. How do you encourage someone who doesn't seem to want any encouragement at all?

AspieSister

Welcome to WP!

Tim

It doesn't really sound to me like...
A. He needs your help, or
B. It's your responsibility to help him.

He most absolutely does NOT need to be ordered to see a psychiatrist by the courts unless he's seriously suicidal.

You know what I think? I think he's been labelled, and so you have decided he's mentally ill and it's up to you to mother him. If I was him I would hate you.

He's not ret*d.

You're meddlesome.

Get over yourself and leave him alone.

Thank you -- glad to be here

Wow... not exactly the response I had expected

Thing is... he has expressed a number of times that he is mildly-moderately suicidal. He is depressed (clinically) and also suffers heavily from OCD and social anxiety... though the Psychiatrist we visited said that many mental illnesses can cloak AS... many people who have Asperger's often exhibit the traits of several different illnesses and that's why they often go for a length of time without being diagnosed with AS... instead, the OCD, Depression, Anxiety, etc are focused on as separate issues...

I love my brother in law, and I want the best for him, but the thing is, he has never been independent, he doesn't know how to pay bills, drive, grocery shop, or even how to clean the house. He can learn these things, but he indicates that it absolutely wears him out trying to learn new things.

He will soon have no place to live... once his father passes away, the house will go into probate, he will be expected to leave. He has indicated that he has no desire to move across the country to be near us (his only family) and we are not in the position for many reasons to move near him. He will need help... I just don't know how to help him get that help.

Hi,

I don't know what country you are in, but I am in the UK and the way it would work here is that you would have to contact the local council to get council housing as they have special facilities for people with disabilities.

I, for example, am on the waitingl list for supported housing where someone would be on duty in the block of flats 24/7 and additionally I would have someone come to visit me individually for 2 hours a week to help with bills etc.

More or less help can be provided depending on the individual's ability.

You could also get a social worker or support worker of some kind via your local health services.

It might be worth contacting local organisations that provide support for people with ASDs and mental health issues as this could help and also they may be able to offer advocacy.

But I think, in the first instance, you need to contact statutory services to see what assistance is available and what the procedure is for applying.

Hello Girl7000

Thank you for the reply and suggestion -- he lives in California, US; what you have described is exactly what we think might be of great help.

He doesn't need his privacy invaded and he doesn't need to be "cared for" round the clock or anything... but he does need help with organization, and many of the *basics* like the groceries, cleaning, paying bills, etc, etc.

So much has been going on -- and the urgency has just hit us over the last week when my father in law was admitted to the hospital -- before this we thought there was more time.

The first thing we want to do is have him involved, this is his life and he should be a part of the decisions made... it is so, so hard though -- he doesn't seem to have any interest in getting help or dealing with any of this. I know it must feel overwhelming for him... We're trying to get through to him compassionately. In the end though, if he continues to reject encouragement... I don't think we will have a choice other than seeking some help for him, something that he is basically required to abide by.

OK, you might be wondering where all that venom came from. I'm sorry for snapping at you. The thing is, people with AS are not ret*d. We have normal to above normal IQs. There are some things we have difficulty with, but there's nothing a normal person can do that we absolutely can't do if we try.

People generally treat me with respect. They acknowledge that I am an intelligent person. I am disorganized, I don't clean much, I don't often buy groceries, I have problems with clinical depression, I've never owned a car, and as a teen and young adult I had difficulty holding down a job, but I'm smart enough to muddle my way through life. As an adult human being, that is my right.

Occasionally, someone will find out I have AS. When they do, their attitude changes. They speak more slowly. They say strange things. They stop asking my for my opinion. They stop caring about my point of view. I've seen it countless times. All of a sudden, it's not just that I'm disorganized- it's that I'm not capable of handling basic organizational tasks.

How would you feel if you were suddenly diagnosed with some weird disorder and people started treating you like you couldn't handle your own life and telling you what to do?

My point is, just because he doesn't handle his own affairs, doesn't mean that at the age of 39 he isn't capable of learning. Sometimes that needs to be done the hard way. I really don't think it's up to you to prepare him for what's to come. He's a grown man. He has problems, but they're his problems, not yours.

When the fall comes, he might come to you for help. He might say, I'm having trouble dealing with such-and-such. Then you can help him with that specific problem. Until then, I think you should back off, because you're only damaging his self-esteem and pushing him away.

It is neither legal nor ethical for you to limit someone's freedoms unless he is a danger to himself or others. Not cleaning house, not paying bills and not buying groceries don't count.

No worries... I did not intend to stereotype him or sound as though I felt he was mentally ret*d.. I know that he isn't. You're right about the IQ as well, he has a well above average IQ... bordering on a genius level -- he's very, very intelligent



The difference between you and him though -- is that it seems you *want* to (muddle through your life ) He indicates that he doesn't want to... more than indicates, actually... he flat out tells us he has no desire to seek help or make any changes.



I can understand that... he has talked with me as much as he can about how he feels...previous to his diagnosis, he just believed he had a learning disability coupled with social anxiety... and that's what we all believed, so it was actually *more* frustrating and difficult to understand. He would come off rude, inconsiderate, uncaring, lazy, unmotivated, and downright selfish -- it was not at all easy to deal with -- he always said he was "just different". He is plagued with exhaustion all of the time and sits in his room in the dark as often as possible... it was hard to understand.

The diagnosis is a blessing in many ways -- NOW we understand!! And now we have something to work with, a place to start... and while yes, he *is* capable of many things -- he believes he is not and in many cases he doesn't want to bother trying.



Before he was diagnosed... he was actually treated worse, I think -- I know how his father treated him growing up and I know his mother sheltered and enabled him... she was sick in many ways and the things she taught to him were not at all conducive to reality or living independently. Her heart was in the right place I think, she was protective of him, but it did not serve to do him any favors in the long run. He is now completely dependent on other people for basic life needs.



The fall is here, sister He isn't the type to ask for help... I have known him for many years and my husband, of course, has known him all his life.

And Esperanza... while I do appreciate your opinion on how he might feel in many ways, you can not pretend to know how I have treated him or how he feels about me... I'm not patting myself on the back, but I know I have been a huge support to him. He has grown to trust me more than almost anyone else in his life. His mother (who has passed away) and his current boss are the only one's that he laid trust in. He depends on me to talk to him openly and honestly, with love and compassion -- something most people have not done -- they have treated him like "something is wrong with him" -- I don't. I deal with him the way I'd like to be dealt with: openly and honestly.

I am one of 2 people on the planet that he says "I love you" to. I have not been all over him about these things and don't need to "back-off" -- that's the last thing I need to do... that's what everyone else has done to him

What I do need is a good perspective on how he may be feeling, because I can not guess... since he isn't good at reading people, I always tell him how I am feeling and why -- and he appreciates it, he doesn't have as easy a time discussing his own emotions though... so, thank you for your perspective, I do appreciate it.

With all due respect... I appreciate where you are coming from, but I would feel more comfortable if you and I agreed to end our dialogue. I have not expressed myself or the situation well enough... or in a way that you can truly understand my intentions. I apologize for this... but I am not here to argue or be belittled...

Hi Aspiesister.

To me it seems your brother is doing fine. He has money in the bank, no debt, a job and he should easily be able to find a place to rent/buy when the time comes to move.

I don't see what the problem is? He just lost his mum and his dad is ill so no he is not going to be in the best of spirits right now. I don't know anyone who would be.

Your brother seems to like taking it one day at a time and I don't see a problem with that. Of course it will be hard for him to get used to a change in living circumstances but once he has his new routines down and come to terms with the loss of his parents his life will be alot easier.

Again it just doesn't seem like he needs or wants any help?

I'm almost afraid to jump into the discussion, but here goes. I have some family members like him and to a certain extent I was like that until I finally got out of my dad's house at 28.

This guy seems in rather good position for someone like himself. The fact he has a job is excellent because a lot of AS guys never do work. So he's got that going for him, he has money saved up. So when the time comes he can get an apartment. Whether or not the guy is a good housekeeper is nothing for you to worry about. He will learn to pay the bills on time when he sees the consequences of not doing so. You need to stop worrying as he is absolutely NOT your responsibility. The fact that he does work shows he can take care of himself if need be. If the house goes into probate there will be a police officer there to escort his butt out of the house. So when that time comes he will leave and he has money so he can get his own place. He is a grown man and his family needs to quit being enablers; he needs to be allowed to make his own mistakes and learn from them. I know you mean well and your concern is admirable, but he needs to be allowed to grow up no matter how painful it is to watch.

A lot of times families enable people to not grow up because they are overprotective. 9 years after I moved 2000 miles away from my dad he begs me to move back in because he enjoys the company and worries about me. But that doesn't erase how it feels to be a grown adult and how embarrassing it is to live with a parent so I don't. The father probably enjoyed the company of this young man and kept him thinking he needed to stay at home.

You need to step back from this. It could be the guy's chance to finally grow up- so LET him. Maybe call and check on him once a week to make sure he's not starving or living with rats. If you absolutely are stuck on mothering him find him a job near where you live and an apartment or let him live in your garage if you have one. That way he will be close to you guys. You absolutely do not need to let him live in your house because its not fair to you especially with you being newly married it would not be healthy for your relationship.

Hi AussieGuy

You're right when you say he doesn't *want* help... but believe me when I say that he needs it. I did not go into many of the details, other than mentioning that he doesn't know how to do a few basic things... it goes beyond that though; his mother ran the entire household before she passed away. Due to her personal nature (she had OCD and some control issues) he did not do anything -- partially because she wanted everything done in a very specific way and partially because she was overly protective of him...

After she passed away, everything stopped functioning which is why my husband and I packed up our life and drove 2,500 miles across the country to live with them for 3 months....

The house was over-run with ants (by the hundreds of thousands -- literally). BIL did not know what to do -- he was incapable of picking up the phone and scheduling a pest control company to come out. To avoid attracting more ants, he left dirty pots and pans inside the over and left dirty dishes with rotting food inside the refrigerator.

He left the dog come live in the house and she proceeded to urinate and poo on the floor... he would see this and not bother to clean it up. His elderly father would walk through the house and through the urination... in his socks and then go get back in bed (with dog pee on himself).

BIL has never driven... he couldn't get groceries for the house -- he called us (before we got there) complaining that he had no food... we're 2,500 miles away... how can we help? He tried to go online and order them but because his mother set up his credit card and had it attached to hers -- he couldn't use it... hers was cancelled after she passed away and it never occured to him that he might need to make a purchase.

He eats things in his bedroom and leaves the leftovers and trash in there to rot. He will get a can of soup and open it and eat it right out of the can and throw the can under his bed. He will pull out a bag of frozen, raw french fries from the freezer and eat them like a snack -- again, leaving the bag and crumbs in his room.

When we cleaned the house -- it took the full 3 months... we filled up MORE than one dozen industrial sized dumpsters with garbage from the house as well as one masonry dumpster that was 18 feet long (stuff from the back yard).

We ordered pizza one night and he did not know how to look up a delivery place in the phone book -- when we showed him how -- he couldn't place the order.

His mother was a hoarder... he also picked that up from her. In his room, you could not move and there was a small area on the bed where he could curl up to sleep -- the rest was covered in garbage.

The house was well on its way to being condemned -- unlivable -- unhealthy -- unsanitary -- bordering on dangerous.

He left his father to sleep in dirty sheets for months, he did also. When he has his 3 days off from work -- he does not bathe, shave, clean himself or anything else -- he sits all day and night in his room, refuses to open a single window in the house and watches TV all day or listens to the radio.

He is afraid of most people... if the maillady knocks with a package he hides and looks out the blinds and waits until she goes away before he will answer.

His father fell just over a week ago -- his arm went through the closet door, he broke his shoulder and injured his neck. BIL found him the next morning and asked his permission before he called a medic. He simply is not capable of living independently void of help.

The list goes on... and on and on...

Yes, he has a job. I have no idea how he has kept it though because it seems every time we talk to him he has called in sick to work. He refuses to see a therapist of any kind yet he admits openly that he doesn't "know how" to do almost everything. So... maybe he doesn't want help... but if we don't try to get him some he will end up homeless... that's what happens when you don't pay your bills... and he does not know how.

Ticker... I was posting atthe same time as you

Maybe I explained it a little better -- the reasons we believe he will not be ok alone. He talks frequently about how he has lost everything... has no hope... no life.. no desire to go on, etc etc

And... I agree, my husband and I have talked about it and no way would we have him living inside our home... we will help him, yes... enable him, no. On so many levels that would be bad -- bad for us and bad for him.

From reading on this forum... it seems there are many variations of severity regarding Asperger's... I don't know if his is more severe than average or if it is that along with how he was raised all his life or if there are other issues on top of Asperger's... I just know he needs to live in a place where he can have some assistance. Getting him to agree to that will be a nightmare though

I'm in a position much like him (except I'm not working)... I've had help for the past 2 years, and finally managed to go out the door and start college o.O Only difference it sounds like, is I have 2 kids to watch out for as well.

He will do it, when he realizes he has to. I have an extra push with kids and all, but it's still a situation very much the same. Before I had them, I lost place after place to stay in, and never had to sleep on the streets or anything. There were some close calls, but I managed something last minute every time.

So when it comes down to the wire, I'm pretty sure he will be alright-it will not be fun to watch or hear about it, but he will do it. Might just want to let him know the option IS out there to get into some housing if it ever does come down to it. I realize that if it came down to it, I could go sign up for housing and all, but I've managed to make it without having to do that so far.

I absolutely HATE asking for help with anything major in my life. I really want to do it myself, but rarely can... but that doesn't mean I'm not capable of sliding by. I don't enjoy it, I'm embarrassed that I'm not paying my own bills, but as long as I'm doing alright, I'm okay. Going back to college is so that maybe later I can flip that around and do something with my life, for myself and for my kids... but it's taken 26 years for me to realize I need to do this.

26 and 39 may seem like a big age gap, but the idea is still there. I whine to people all the time that I don't like my situation (venting), but it doesn't mean it's never going to change, or that I never will do it. It just takes me a bit longer to come around to things. I'm also more than capable of being able to tell whether or not I can actually do things on my own when the time comes. Grocery shopping I'm horrible at-help would be very nice... budgeting-gah, don't even ask... bills-pffft... lol, those are just 3 things I KNOW I could use some help with because they are things I've never been able to manage well. But as far as having a place to live, and making sure there is food on the table, keeping the basic things clean even if the rest of the house is falling apart-I do alright with that stuff, and I live on my own. Chances are, he will too

It's nice that you are worried about him, but remember, you have a life as well Don't get to the point of worrying yourself sick-as it's good for nobody, especially if he's not asking for help anyway-worrying about something FOR somebody is just putting all of the weight of the situation on yourself-you don't need to carry that, not yet at least. Just stand back and see how he does-if he really does need the help, chances are he will eventually come around and ask. He probably has a pretty good idea of his limits Until then, relax, be glad he's got his father there now, and let the worrying come later when it happens.