Since when do right wingers care so much about birds?

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Sweetleaf
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24 Jan 2018, 12:45 am

Oh the solar panels they kill birds, is an argument I have heard, not seen any scientific data to confirm solar panels are the main problem for birds but some right wingers believe this. I wonder if its simular to people who shoot cats they see because....der cats kill der birds, do these people even care about birds in any other context? or its just a nice excuse to shoot peoples pets? I just don't get it if I was a cold hearted person who likes to shoot animals just because....I wouldn't genuinely care about little tweet tweet birds probably. So what is the real story. What are any of those asshats doing to save the birds huh?


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24 Jan 2018, 12:49 am

Okay, I'm right-wing and I'm pretty insulted by this question. Where did you get the idea that we don't care about birds?


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24 Jan 2018, 12:51 am

MidnightMoon wrote:
Okay, I'm right-wing and I'm pretty insulted by this question. Where did you get the idea that we don't care about birds?


Well just doesn't seem to go with the popular mentality, of supporting Trump with no question and not giving a damn about the environment..perhaps that does not describe every right winger, but seems to describe a lot of them. Just don't see why it seems the only time they care about birds is if they can argue solar panels are killing them or if its to justify shooting someones cat or something.

Or maybe its more of a cat hater issue...IDK.


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24 Jan 2018, 2:17 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Oh the solar panels they kill birds, is an argument I have heard, not seen any scientific data to confirm solar panels are the main problem for birds but some right wingers believe this. I wonder if its simular to people who shoot cats they see because....der cats kill der birds, do these people even care about birds in any other context? or its just a nice excuse to shoot peoples pets? I just don't get it if I was a cold hearted person who likes to shoot animals just because....I wouldn't genuinely care about little tweet tweet birds probably. So what is the real story. What are any of those asshats doing to save the birds huh?


Solar panels don't kill birds. What kills birds is the Ivanpah Solar Plant, which uses a number of mirrors to focus the sun's energy on towers in which boilers are located, to boil water, to turn steam turbines.

The beam of sunlight the mirrors produce is so concentrated that it becomes a death ray.



EzraS
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24 Jan 2018, 2:43 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Oh the solar panels they kill birds, is an argument I have heard, not seen any scientific data to confirm solar panels are the main problem for birds but some right wingers believe this. I wonder if its simular to people who shoot cats they see because....der cats kill der birds, do these people even care about birds in any other context? or its just a nice excuse to shoot peoples pets? I just don't get it if I was a cold hearted person who likes to shoot animals just because....I wouldn't genuinely care about little tweet tweet birds probably. So what is the real story. What are any of those asshats doing to save the birds huh?


First of all as far as birds and right wingers go, what about Duck Dynasty?

Also I've heard lots of complaints about wind turbines killing birds for a long time.

But how is being bothered over birds getting chopped up or fried a right winger thing? And how is shooting cats supposed to be a right winger thing?



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24 Jan 2018, 2:46 am

MidnightMoon wrote:
Okay, I'm right-wing and I'm pretty insulted by this question. Where did you get the idea that we don't care about birds?


Be honest here, how many cats have you gunned down?



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24 Jan 2018, 2:58 am

Well the coal industry kills entire mountains so a few bird sacrifices would seen to pale in comparison.

Wind power has the same problem anyway & hydro power kills fisheries, birds also kill jet engines so nature's not all that toothless.

Can someone please explain why conservatism & conservation were at odds in the first place?


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Sweetleaf
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24 Jan 2018, 3:01 am

EzraS wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Oh the solar panels they kill birds, is an argument I have heard, not seen any scientific data to confirm solar panels are the main problem for birds but some right wingers believe this. I wonder if its simular to people who shoot cats they see because....der cats kill der birds, do these people even care about birds in any other context? or its just a nice excuse to shoot peoples pets? I just don't get it if I was a cold hearted person who likes to shoot animals just because....I wouldn't genuinely care about little tweet tweet birds probably. So what is the real story. What are any of those asshats doing to save the birds huh?


First of all as far as birds and right wingers go, what about Duck Dynasty?

Also I've heard lots of complaints about wind turbines killing birds for a long time.

But how is being bothered over birds getting chopped up or fried a right winger thing? And how is shooting cats supposed to be a right winger thing?



that is what i mean it seems odd the only time they care about this if they have been convinced solar and wind energy would damage birds...yet they are all for oil even though that hurts even more birds than wind or solar energy has.

And strangely they have no uproar about birds of prey being killed by prey shot by led bullets that the hunters don't end up collecting and maybe an eagle eats it and gets led poisoning. Ok maybe that is irresponsible hunters on both sides but either way where is the uproar about the effect of led bullets on birds of prey? If there is going to be an uproar about cats , solar panels and wind energy what about an uproar about led posiening in birds of prey?


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EzraS
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24 Jan 2018, 3:18 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Oh the solar panels they kill birds, is an argument I have heard, not seen any scientific data to confirm solar panels are the main problem for birds but some right wingers believe this. I wonder if its simular to people who shoot cats they see because....der cats kill der birds, do these people even care about birds in any other context? or its just a nice excuse to shoot peoples pets? I just don't get it if I was a cold hearted person who likes to shoot animals just because....I wouldn't genuinely care about little tweet tweet birds probably. So what is the real story. What are any of those asshats doing to save the birds huh?


First of all as far as birds and right wingers go, what about Duck Dynasty?

Also I've heard lots of complaints about wind turbines killing birds for a long time.

But how is being bothered over birds getting chopped up or fried a right winger thing? And how is shooting cats supposed to be a right winger thing?



that is what i mean it seems odd the only time they care about this if they have been convinced solar and wind energy would damage birds...yet they are all for oil even though that hurts even more birds than wind or solar energy has.

And strangely they have no uproar about birds of prey being killed by prey shot by led bullets that the hunters don't end up collecting and maybe an eagle eats it and gets led poisoning. Ok maybe that is irresponsible hunters on both sides but either way where is the uproar about the effect of led bullets on birds of prey? If there is going to be an uproar about cats , solar panels and wind energy what about an uproar about led posiening in birds of prey?


I don't know, is there an uproar or not and how can one tell what the political spectrum is regarding birds of prey ingesting lead?



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24 Jan 2018, 11:40 pm

EzraS wrote:
I don't know, is there an uproar or not and how can one tell what the political spectrum is regarding birds of prey ingesting lead?


wow.
who cares what the political spectrum thinks.

i dislike humans in general because they rape the planet in order to feed their greed.
not any human in particular, but as a race they are toxic to mother earth.
they paved paradise and put up a parking lot (song)

humans are no more deserved of life than simple animals in my opinion.
intelligence does not equate to "love".. in my mind.

everything that is alive is living for the only time it will ever live i believe, and to rob them of that chance is quite a sin.

except for "kill what you must immediately eat".

who knows. the smog and s**t and the crowdedness of automatons that walk in a zombie like fashion everywhere just show that the planet is being robbed to produce useless s**t for them.



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25 Jan 2018, 2:46 am

b9 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I don't know, is there an uproar or not and how can one tell what the political spectrum is regarding birds of prey ingesting lead?


wow.
who cares what the political spectrum thinks.

i dislike humans in general because they rape the planet in order to feed their greed.
not any human in particular, but as a race they are toxic to mother earth.
they paved paradise and put up a parking lot (song)

humans are no more deserved of life than simple animals in my opinion.
intelligence does not equate to "love".. in my mind.

everything that is alive is living for the only time it will ever live i believe, and to rob them of that chance is quite a sin.

except for "kill what you must immediately eat".

who knows. the smog and s**t and the crowdedness of automatons that walk in a zombie like fashion everywhere just show that the planet is being robbed to produce useless s**t for them.


Actually caring what political parties think is not necessary, but that is the topic of this thread.



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25 Jan 2018, 7:30 pm

You made me think, Sweetleaf. I detest the shooting of birds as a sport, and the only duck shooters I have ever known have been men of a very sexist and conservative kind. However the sample size is small. The idea that they do this for food is nonsense, because wild ducks are as tough and stringy as old boots, and the men I cite were also wealthy. They could buy farmed duck at the supermarket if they want to eat them.

I live near a natural bird sanctuary which I visit often. There is a bridge across a river there which offers the best views of many species and their chicks. It's women, mainly, who go there to watch the bird families. A few men occasionally though they tend to just use the bridge as a thoroughfare.

My foster brother thought it was great fun to shoot seagulls and other birds with his air gun (even though it was and is illegal). He is now a bit more mature at 75 and no longer shoots things. I have been endeavouring to be a civilising influence on him for half a century and with some success. At least he has stopped killing things for fun.

The bird sanctuaries that look after wounded birds here: all the volunteers and people who own and run these here are women.

In the immediate area where I live, a male neighbour - who is a principal at a very exclusive right wing private school - lets off those giant fireworks (the display kind that make a tremendous noise and air impact) near the nesting places of our native birds (a natural small forest separates our properties) and I have politely spoken to him about some of these species which have disappeared from that forest in the past two years that this has happened. His response was evasive, and it was clear he couldn't care less. His fun was more important.

I am sure there are many male bird lovers, though not as many as women it seems to me, and the only ones are know are professional photographers who specialise in bird photography and write books about native birds. We have a large organisation here called Forest and Bird which lobbies against endangerment of our beautiful forest and birdlife, and they are considered "too lefty" by the right wing governments we have had, as the organisation opposes commercial exploitation of endangered or vulnerable areas. They are a very responsible organisation, a bit conservative in the relatively little noise they make, though they advocate at a policy level and very professionally. I would guess that paid up members (it is expensive to join) are from all political perspectives.

Interesting. I had never thought of it in that way before.

John Audobon loved and painted the beautiful birds of the USA and his wonderful legacy is testament to his place as an eminent birdlover:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Audubon



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25 Jan 2018, 9:53 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Oh the solar panels they kill birds, is an argument I have heard, not seen any scientific data to confirm solar panels are the main problem for birds but some right wingers believe this. I wonder if its simular to people who shoot cats they see because....der cats kill der birds, do these people even care about birds in any other context? or its just a nice excuse to shoot peoples pets? I just don't get it if I was a cold hearted person who likes to shoot animals just because....I wouldn't genuinely care about little tweet tweet birds probably. So what is the real story. What are any of those asshats doing to save the birds huh?


I think you made a couple of assumptions/statements here which can be sliced and diced to determine their accuracy...

Are you sure that you don't mean windmills rather than solar panels?
Could you provide a link to support your assertion they are talking about solar panels?

I think you may be confusing conservatives with sociopaths in regards to the of killing cats analogy... :mrgreen:
BTW, Has this happened to you or someone you know?

Edit:
Chronos wrote:

Solar panels don't kill birds. What kills birds is the Ivanpah Solar Plant, which uses a number of mirrors to focus the sun's energy on towers in which boilers are located, to boil water, to turn steam turbines.

The beam of sunlight the mirrors produce is so concentrated that it becomes a death ray.


Oh, I see...
Learnt something new...

b9 wrote:


i dislike humans in general because they rape the planet in order to feed their greed.
not any human in particular, but as a race they are toxic to mother earth.
they paved paradise and put up a parking lot (song)

humans are no more deserved of life than simple animals in my opinion.
intelligence does not equate to "love".. in my mind.

everything that is alive is living for the only time it will ever live i believe, and to rob them of that chance is quite a sin.



I think you mean "species"...
I agree, as a species, humanity is a toxic presence in the universe, born of evolutionary necessity...

Regarding your other point suggesting life is a gift, correct me if I am wrong but I believed Charles Darwin was appalled at the cruelty involved in the life system...

And on that happy note, I will say au revoir... :mrgreen:


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26 Jan 2018, 1:57 am

Pepe wrote:
Are you sure that you don't mean windmills rather than solar panels?

are you sure you don't mean "wind turbines" rather than "windmills"?
a windmill is a mill which is a grinder of grain powered by the wind.
a turbine is a dynamo twisted by wind energy.
i have read a bit about them and there is not a significant amount of "downed" birds around them.
birds are gifted with a keen eye for movement, and they will normally avoid the path of a turbine blade.
plenty more birds are to be found dead on the side of the roads everywhere.

Chronos wrote:

Solar panels don't kill birds. What kills birds is the Ivanpah Solar Plant, which uses a number of mirrors to focus the sun's energy on towers in which boilers are located, to boil water, to turn steam turbines.

The beam of sunlight the mirrors produce is so concentrated that it becomes a death ray.

that is correct, however the area of intense heat is quite close to the receiver. Ivanpah is not the only solar collector. we have a couple of large ones in australia too.
the mirrors are concave in a parabolic dish designed to focus reflected light on a single point, and i think instant bird roasting distance is about 25 ft away from the collector.
also i believe they heat oil rather than water, and the superheated oil flash boils water later on down in the bowels of the plant underground, and the oil also retains heat for a very long time compared to water.
Pepe wrote:
b9 wrote:
i ...............but as a race they are toxic to mother earth.


I think you mean "species"...
yes whatever.

Pepe wrote:
I agree, as a species, humanity is a toxic presence in the universe

i don't agree with what you think you are agreeing with.
"toxic" is only a word that means "injurious to life". it is only a word.
so many places there are in the universe that you would be killed instantly if you were transported to.
that is, in the form of a word, "toxic", but in the form of reality, it's just the way it is.

Pepe wrote:
born of evolutionary necessity...

look the reason i am such a bastard is primarily because of my ODD, and i am simply compelled to disagree, but you are right....to an extent.
i do not think there is anything such as evolutionary necessity. it is evolutionary inevitability.
life is inevitable. it is not necessary however in the true lizard scheme of the universe.



Pepe wrote:
Regarding your other point suggesting life is a gift, correct me if I am wrong but I believed Charles Darwin was appalled at the cruelty involved in the life system...


no it's just hard luck. there is no such thing as cruelty really in the natural world.

yes impala's run for their lives and bleat in terror as they try to evade a predatory pursuant, and they try and try and try and try, but when they lose, the brutal force of the jaws of death clamp upon their necks.
a terrible way to die.
it is very hard to watch and i can never watch the final bit of those chases.
crocodiles stuck in the mud for a year because of a dry season hope for a monsoon release within a few months.
they are perilously close to death.
they have not eaten for a year, and they can not free themselves from the mud.
all that time they have suffered and the rains do not come.
i saw a show about this and it was heart breaking.
we were never told that the crocodiles would not survive.
it was nail biting weeks and then months as the mud got thicker and thicker and set almost as hard as concrete, and i was so waiting for the rains to come and for them to be able to swim free and eat, and to see how happy they would be when the rains came.

but the final scene was "and the rains never came that year", and the camera panned to show the skeletons of all the crocodiles i got to know during the show and wow. life is cruel for them too.

anyway, all life must die, and death is almost always an unpleasant process. humans are not exempt.
fatal heart attacks must feel awful before you die.
imagine the terror of falling to the ground in serious dizziness and to realize you've had a major stroke.
they often say "she or he died peacefully in their sleep". i think they woke up when the event was taking place and succumbed before they could get out of bed, and then died and looked to observers as if they never woke up.

here is a terrible idea. they know if humans were alive when thrown out of a plane at high altitude (implying a structural failure rather than an explosion) because they have what is known as "flail" injuries.
my god!! do you realize what that is?
it means people tried to fly and broke bones and tore muscles in the attempt to soften their landing by flailing around trying to "grab wind" in a madmans panic...and then thump!. it was over.

but never take a life that has time left to live because you rob sacred time from the consciousness of a living being.



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26 Jan 2018, 3:01 am

b9 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Are you sure that you don't mean windmills rather than solar panels?

are you sure you don't mean "wind turbines" rather than "windmills"?
a windmill is a mill which is a grinder of grain powered by the wind.
a turbine is a dynamo twisted by wind energy.

Touch~e...<chuckle>
Yes I meant wind turbines...
b9 wrote:
[i have read a bit about them and there is not a significant amount of "downed" birds around them.
birds are gifted with a keen eye for movement, and they will normally avoid the path of a turbine blade.
plenty more birds are to be found dead on the side of the roads everywhere.

After a quick Google I found this:
Quote:
Wind turbines kill between 214,000 and 368,000 birds annually — a small fraction compared with the estimated 6.8 million fatalities from collisions with cell and radio towers and the 1.4 billion to 3.7 billion deaths from cats, according to the peer-reviewed study by two federal scientists and the environmental consulting firm West Inc.
"We estimate that on an annual basis, less than 0.1% ... of songbird and other small passerine species populations in North America perish from collisions with turbines," says lead author Wallace Erickson of Wyoming-based West.

https://www.treehugger.com/renewable-en ... 00000.html

Since I hadn't research the subject previously, I had no firm position regarding this subject.
The figures did/does sound "impressive" regarding the number of bird deaths due to wind mills...eerrr... I mean turbines...;) but in context it is insignificant, I agree, based on the figures given here...
But consider me in investigation mode atm... ;)


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