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Piobaire
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21 Feb 2018, 5:32 pm

The 2nd Amendment is complete and utter nonsense; a worse-than-useless anachronism dating from a time when we were a confederation of states, there was no standing army, and the standard infantry weapon was a muzzle-loading smooth-bore .72 cal. flintlock musket that could be fired 4 times a minute with a range of 50 to 75 yards. We're now a nuclear-armed republic with the largest military in the world and an empire that spans the globe; the sole raison d'être of the 2nd Amendment; to maintain "a well-regulated militia", has been completely moot for over 100 years.
Since 1968, more Americans have been shot to death domestically than in all of America's wars combined; to attempt to justify such carnage based upon a legislative fossil which should've been repealed when high-button shoes and buggy whips went out of fashion is nothing short of obscene. The 2nd Amendment wasn't brought down the slopes of Mount Sinai by Moses, inscribed on tablets of stone; we wrote it, and we can erase it. We've amended the Constitution 27 times; it's well past time to do it again, get over our infantile 'wild west' mentality, repeal the 2nd Amendment, and start regulating ownership of lethal weapons just like every other civilized nation on Earth.



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21 Feb 2018, 6:16 pm

How to Amend the Constitution

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Yes, any of the 27 Constitutional amendments can be repealed by another amendment. Because repealing an amendment requires the passage of another Constitutional amendment, removing one of the 27 amendments is rare.

Only one Constitutional amendment has been repealed in U.S. history. That was the 18th Amendment banning the manufacture and sale of alcohol in the United States, also known as Prohibition. Congress ratified the 21st Amendment repealing Prohibition in 1933.


Proposing an Amendment
Either Congress or the States can propose an amendment to the Constitution.

Both houses of Congress must propose the amendment with a two-thirds vote. This is how all current amendments have been offered.
Two-thirds of the state legislatures must call on Congress to hold a constitutional convention.

Ratifying an Amendment
Regardless of how the amendment is proposed, it must be ratified by the States.

Three-fourths of the state legislatures must approve of the amendment proposed by Congress, or
Three-fourths of the states must approve the amendment via ratifying conventions. This method has only been used once, to repeal Prohibition with the 21st Amendment.
The U.S. Supreme Court originally held that ratification must happen within "some reasonable time after the proposal. However, since the 18th Amendment was ratified, Congress has set the term of seven years for ratification


It would require a massive shift in thinking in very varied regions and a shift in thinking of the most powerful people combined with the willingness to provide sustained political pressure over a long period of time.

I suspect a large percentage of people proposing “sensible gun control” really want to ban guns but know it is almost an impossibility. The “sensible gun control” people knowing this are just trying to get the lesser of two evils. Also some might be hoping getting any gun control at all might make it easier to get further gun control. The gun rights folks fear this “slippery slope” or as the cliche goes “you give ‘em’ an inch they will take mile”. In that way of thinking giving in to ANY gun control is the first step to the inevitable banning guns and removal of all other rights.


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DarthMetaKnight
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21 Feb 2018, 6:32 pm

If we do abolish the Second Amendment, we still need to remember the motivations behind the shooters.

If people are flipping out and committing mass murder, this must mean that many people are being denied proper mental health treatments. Clearly, some people are in psychological agony.

If we take away the guns, these people will continue to suffer alone.

That's the real issue which needs to be addressed. American capitalism is the problem, since it denies people proper healthcare. The system also promotes extreme cynicism and emotional alienation. When people see the US military killing innocent civilians on TV, they often decide that human life, in general, has no value.


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sly279
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21 Feb 2018, 7:22 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
If we do abolish the Second Amendment, we still need to remember the motivations behind the shooters.

If people are flipping out and committing mass murder, this must mean that many people are being denied proper mental health treatments. Clearly, some people are in psychological agony.

If we take away the guns, these people will continue to suffer alone.

That's the real issue which needs to be addressed. American capitalism is the problem, since it denies people proper healthcare. The system also promotes extreme cynicism and emotional alienation. When people see the US military killing innocent civilians on TV, they often decide that human life, in general, has no value.


More likely they’d make bombs, or do mass stabbing. Or run over kids waiting for their bus with a truck.
Can’t stop people from killing, we can only stop them as quickly as possible to prevent too many deaths. There’s no evil detector.

Repealing the 2a would require majority of Congress then 3/4 of the States supporting it. Look at the last election, do you think you could even get half the states to support it?

And we’ve given a lot and still anti want morel so the whole give them an inch and their take a mile is true. I’m done giving them anything. They have no respect and they lie lie lie. Their true goal is total ban. I atleast respect those who come out and say it. I disagree and will fight them but I can respect their honesty and openly standing by their beliefs. The ones who lie about their agenda and lie to trick the public I can not respect. If you can’t openly support your ideas and if you can’t be honest about your ideas, if you need to lie and deceive to get your ideas passed you’re not a good person.
Not saying abiut anyone here, I believe most anti gun people here have fallen for the lies and deceiving . Brought to you by the same people who brought us the patriot act.



kraftiekortie
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21 Feb 2018, 7:30 pm

Ain't going to happen. The Second Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights. It's rock solid. It ain't going anywhere.

I'm not a gun advocate myself----but to abolish a fundamental part of our Bill of Rights would cause ALL sorts of problems.

This is one of my main grievances with Trump---that he's seeking, in a sense, to repeal the FIRST amendment.



DarthMetaKnight
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21 Feb 2018, 7:41 pm

sly279 wrote:
More likely they’d make bombs, or do mass stabbing. Or run over kids waiting for their bus with a truck.
Can’t stop people from killing, we can only stop them as quickly as possible to prevent too many deaths. There’s no evil detector.


Why do some countries have higher murder rates than others?

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Repealing the 2a would require majority of Congress then 3/4 of the States supporting it. Look at the last election, do you think you could even get half the states to support it?

And we’ve given a lot and still anti want morel so the whole give them an inch and their take a mile is true.


Anti? Are you still obsessing over Antifa?

Antifa is nothing. They aren't nearly as violent as they appear to be in the TV news media ... and most people on the left have disowned them anyway. Even Noam Chomsky has disowned Antifa.

Quote:
I’m done giving them anything. They have no respect and they lie lie lie. Their true goal is total ban. I atleast respect those who come out and say it. I disagree and will fight them but I can respect their honesty and openly standing by their beliefs. The ones who lie about their agenda and lie to trick the public I can not respect. If you can’t openly support your ideas and if you can’t be honest about your ideas, if you need to lie and deceive to get your ideas passed you’re not a good person.


Are you honestly saying that every person who wants gun control is for a total gun ban?

Perhaps they don't openly state that they want a total gun ban because they don't actually want a total gun ban.

Occam's Razor

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Not saying abiut anyone here, I believe most anti gun people here have fallen for the lies and deceiving . Brought to you by the same people who brought us the patriot act.


This isn't always true.


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Mudboy
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21 Feb 2018, 8:54 pm

I have a better idea. All of the unpatriotic, anti-constitutionalist, anti-americans should just leave the country instead of destroying it The US has those rights for a reason. :x .


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kokopelli
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21 Feb 2018, 9:32 pm

What a crock of horse hockey.

Firearms have their place and should not be banned unless you value nothing but tyranny.

Do you think that you would be any safer if honest people didn't have firearms? You'd be easy pickings for whoever wanted to do whatever they wanted to do to you and there would be little or nothing you could do about it.

And, for what it's worth, do you realize that the worst school massacre in US history wasn't done with firearms? Read up on the Bath School when you get a chance. Eliminate firearms and at least some people will resort to much more drastic ways to kill people with far worse results.

You would be the prey of any criminal who wanted something you have.



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21 Feb 2018, 10:17 pm

If Congress attempts to change the Second Amendment, then IMO, it would make "gun nuts" more paranoid that their rights to bear arms will be taken away for good.

In turn, a question I have thought since the shooting last week in Parkland is; What do you think the reactions of America's Founding Fathers would be about firearms getting into the wrong hands and/or mass shootings such as Parkland?


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21 Feb 2018, 10:44 pm

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


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Pepe
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21 Feb 2018, 11:09 pm

Piobaire wrote:
The 2nd Amendment is complete and utter nonsense; a worse-than-useless anachronism dating from a time when we were a confederation of states, there was no standing army, and the standard infantry weapon was a muzzle-loading smooth-bore .72 cal. flintlock musket that could be fired 4 times a minute with a range of 50 to 75 yards. We're now a nuclear-armed republic with the largest military in the world and an empire that spans the globe; the sole raison d'être of the 2nd Amendment; to maintain "a well-regulated militia", has been completely moot for over 100 years.
Since 1968, more Americans have been shot to death domestically than in all of America's wars combined; to attempt to justify such carnage based upon a legislative fossil which should've been repealed when high-button shoes and buggy whips went out of fashion is nothing short of obscene. The 2nd Amendment wasn't brought down the slopes of Mount Sinai by Moses, inscribed on tablets of stone; we wrote it, and we can erase it. We've amended the Constitution 27 times; it's well past time to do it again, get over our infantile 'wild west' mentality, repeal the 2nd Amendment, and start regulating ownership of lethal weapons just like every other civilized nation on Earth.


I think some people, rightly or wrongly, think there is a global covert agenda in disarming its citizenry...
Amerika is well known for having a significant number of its citizens who distrust the establishment...

Quote:
Survivalism is a primarily American movement of individuals or groups (called survivalists or preppers) who are actively preparing for emergencies, including possible disruptions in social or political order, on scales from local to international. Survivalists often acquire emergency medical and self-defense training, stockpile food and water, prepare to become self-sufficient, and build structures (e.g., survival retreats or underground shelters) that may help them survive a catastrophe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivalism


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22 Feb 2018, 1:51 am

Well, if that joke of a president follows through on his statement that he plans to tighten the rules around gun use my opinion of him may actually go up. Usually when he says he plans on doing something that has needed to be done for quite some time, I disagree, sometimes strongly with what he proposes. Not here though. I actually would have a great deal of respect for the first US president with the stones to do something about the dumbest law in existence, even though if that president is Donald, it would be virtually canceled out by all the stupid things he's done. Still, if he does this I'll at least be more...conflicted about him instead of firmly opposed.



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22 Feb 2018, 3:39 am

Well... even if the 2nd Amendment was revoked, there's still literally millions of guns in America. So lotsa luck with that.
As for the notion that the right to bear arms is the only thing stopping America from being taken over by tyranny: that's a load of crap. It's a free press that defends our liberties. President Cheeto, with all his attacks on the mainstream media, is more a threat to American liberty than anyone with the impossible dream of banning all firearms.


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kokopelli
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22 Feb 2018, 3:57 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Well... even if the 2nd Amendment was revoked, there's still literally millions of guns in America. So lotsa luck with that.
As for the notion that the right to bear arms is the only thing stopping America from being taken over by tyranny: that's a load of crap. It's a free press that defends our liberties. President Cheeto, with all his attacks on the mainstream media, is more a threat to American liberty than anyone with the impossible dream of banning all firearms.


The taking of the private property of individuals on such a large scale would be tyranny. America would not be taken over by tyranny -- it would necessarily have to become tyrannical.

One thing about the Second Amendment that you hear a lot is that it is there to protect ourselves from the government. I don't believe that is true. The real purpose is, I think, to have a population ready and able to defend the country and the government from outside invaders.



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22 Feb 2018, 4:06 am

kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well... even if the 2nd Amendment was revoked, there's still literally millions of guns in America. So lotsa luck with that.
As for the notion that the right to bear arms is the only thing stopping America from being taken over by tyranny: that's a load of crap. It's a free press that defends our liberties. President Cheeto, with all his attacks on the mainstream media, is more a threat to American liberty than anyone with the impossible dream of banning all firearms.


The taking of the private property of individuals on such a large scale would be tyranny. America would not be taken over by tyranny -- it would necessarily have to become tyrannical.

One thing about the Second Amendment that you hear a lot is that it is there to protect ourselves from the government. I don't believe that is true. The real purpose is, I think, to have a population ready and able to defend the country and the government from outside invaders.


Yes - - in a well regulated militia.
As far as the government seizing all guns - - that would prove to be an impossible task.


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