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Erasing history, should we do it?

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Pepe
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21 Mar 2018, 5:43 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
And wanting the state to "ban" something out of someone getting offended, it's just as good an idea as wanting to ban dog ownership because Hitler owned a dog.


Hitler believed two plus two made four. I hope you don’t agree with Hitler!


So you are trying to be objective and reasonable....
Looking at the facts rather than buying into the emotion-laden distortion of factual history?
Let us lynch this Hitler lover!! ! :twisted: :mrgreen:



naturalplastic
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21 Mar 2018, 5:51 pm

Drake wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Read a magazine article by an author outraged about how "Nazi death camps in Europe are all deteriorating!". For a nanosecond I thought that he sounded crazy. Why do the death camps need to be pristine? I wondered. But then it immediately struck that YES, its vital to protect the sites were the Holocaust happened because we already have Holocaust deniers now. Just think how ez it would be for future generations to get away with holocaust denial claims if there were no longer concrete (literally concrete) evidence of the holocaust around to point to and look at. So Auschwitz and Buchenwald do need to be preserved.

However confederate statues in Baltimore? Not the same thing at all.

Confederate statues in Baltimore are the opposite of real artifacts that point to real history. They were never anything but bogus puffery to begin with.

They honor men as "heroes" who were traitors to the nation. And who commited treason for the sole purpose of preserving slavery. The statues in question were all built long after the civil war in the 20th century. And...why does Baltimore even HAVE Confederate statues anyway? Yes...Maryland was a slave state, but it stayed in the Union and never even joined the Confederacy. Five thousand Marylanders died fighting for the south, but 20thousand died fighting for the North. So why does a non confederate state have confederate statues in the first place? The existence of the statues is BS wrapped in more BS.

The presence of the statues is erasure of history. Their proposed absence would restore truth. Not take away truth.

Statues of Lee in Virginia, or in any other of the actual Confederate states - that's a little more real. Not gonna take on the issue of Confederate statues in actual confederate states. But in Maryland its a no brainer. Take em down. And melt em down. Don't even put them in a museum. Monuments to both sides alongside each other on battlefields in both regions are fine.

No. Tired of seeing this whitewashing.

Exactly. The presence of confederate statues is whitewashing the past. Taking them down is ending the sanitizing of the past.



naturalplastic
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21 Mar 2018, 6:01 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
sly279 wrote:
If we erase history then it’s destined to be repeated.

I agree!

Now, at the risk of going-down the Confederate rabbit hole..... I think it is stupid to remove the flags, statues, and so-forth. If you want a "black people's statue"----right now, Baltimore is erecting (or, HAS erected) a statue to Harriet Tubman, in one of the places that used to have a Confederate staute----that's fine, put 'em right up there with ol' Lee (or whichever Confederate), that'll make 'im roll-over in his grave (LOL); but, don't take things, AWAY (add-TO - that way, IMO, nobody feels snubbed)! !

Actually that's probably the right direction to go on this issue. Keep the confederate guys in the park, but juxtapose them with statues of Harriet Tubman, and Frederick Douglas, and... just accept the contradictions implied. Indeed embrace the contradictions.



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21 Mar 2018, 6:23 pm

You know what would be really constructive. For every statue of Robert E. Lee, there is, erect a statue of Frederick Douglas, Harriet Tubman, Hiram Revels or another African American hero of that era. But don't destroy history, society needs these warnings and these lessons. Besides for every so-called "Symbol" of hatred that is knocked down, an innocent person dies in a real, vicious hate crime. That is what we have seen in Charlottesville, don't let it happen elsewhere.



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21 Mar 2018, 6:23 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
sly279 wrote:
If we erase history then it’s destined to be repeated.

I agree!

Now, at the risk of going-down the Confederate rabbit hole..... I think it is stupid to remove the flags, statues, and so-forth. If you want a "black people's statue"----right now, Baltimore is erecting (or, HAS erected) a statue to Harriet Tubman, in one of the places that used to have a Confederate staute----that's fine, put 'em right up there with ol' Lee (or whichever Confederate), that'll make 'im roll-over in his grave (LOL); but, don't take things, AWAY (add-TO - that way, IMO, nobody feels snubbed)! !

Actually that's probably the right direction to go on this issue. Keep the confederate guys in the park, but juxtapose them with statues of Harriet Tubman, and Frederick Douglas, and... just accept the contradictions implied. Indeed embrace the contradictions.

very good chance, human nature being what it is [sh***y] that there would soon be a "statue war" with mutual defacing of statues if kept in the same place.



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21 Mar 2018, 6:25 pm

Blondi can't be blamed for the crimes of the Nazis....

I wave to Blondi, too.



auntblabby
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21 Mar 2018, 6:31 pm

blondi's in a place where it's safe and warm and no piss-ant Nazis to be found anywhere.



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21 Mar 2018, 7:12 pm

It may seem unrelated, but I'd like to see alternatives to Jackson on the $20 bill. And maybe see all the Midwest prisons named after native tribes (Shawnee, Pontiac, etc.) renamed to something else.



Pepe
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21 Mar 2018, 7:14 pm

auntblabby wrote:
blondi's in a place where it's safe and warm and no piss-ant Nazis to be found anywhere.


Nor a commie bastard around to torture and kill her... 8O

auntblabby wrote:
I had no idea that Alsatian=German shepherd :o :idea:
learn so many new things on these threads :study:


Yep...
Calling a "German shepherd" an alsatian is racist... 8O



sly279
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21 Mar 2018, 10:10 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
And wanting the state to "ban" something out of someone getting offended, it's just as good an idea as wanting to ban dog ownership because Hitler owned a dog.


Hitler believed two plus two made four. I hope you don’t agree with Hitler!


Hitler was also a vegetarian and the Nazis discovered smoking caused cancer and so were against smoking. So we shoul all eat tons of meat and smoke lots of cigars, also as not to appear as liking nazis, we should be very suspicious of vegetarians and vegans too for that matter. :p



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22 Mar 2018, 1:36 am

Great idea! They rejected "Jewish science", which meant they failed to get nukes ready in time for the war, and otherwise they might even have won it. Let's do the same with anything associated with the Nazis---what could go wrong?


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Pepe
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22 Mar 2018, 1:41 am

Spiderpig wrote:
Great idea! They rejected "Jewish science", which meant they failed to get nukes ready in time for the war, and otherwise they might even have won it. Let's do the same with anything associated with the Nazis---what could go wrong?


I heard somewhere where the Amerikans employed hundreds of thousands of individuals to work on the Manhattan project... 8O
I suspect they had the edge... :wink:



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22 Mar 2018, 1:48 am

Pepe wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Great idea! They rejected "Jewish science", which meant they failed to get nukes ready in time for the war, and otherwise they might even have won it. Let's do the same with anything associated with the Nazis---what could go wrong?


I heard somewhere where the Amerikans employed hundreds of thousands of individuals to work on the Manhattan project... 8O
I suspect they had the edge... :wink:


And the simple fact was, Hitler's man on the Nazi atomic bomb project, Werner Heisenberg, had purposely dragged his feet to prevent Hitler from getting the bomb. But even if he was dedicated to making Nazi Germany an atomic power, it turns out that while Heisenberg thought he knew how to build the bomb, he actually didn't. Now that's irony!


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auntblabby
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22 Mar 2018, 2:48 am

^^^and thank god for that!



Pepe
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22 Mar 2018, 3:03 am

auntblabby wrote:
^^^and thank god for that!


Thank God the Amerikans dropped the bomb on the Japanese rather than the Krauts...

Errr...why are you guys looking at me funny? 8O :mrgreen:



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22 Mar 2018, 3:25 am

Pepe wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
^^^and thank god for that!


Thank God the Amerikans dropped the bomb on the Japanese rather than the Krauts...

Errr...why are you guys looking at me funny? 8O :mrgreen:


Had Germany not surrendered when it did, they very probably would have been targeted with an atomic bomb.


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