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thinkinginpictures
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16 Jun 2018, 4:10 pm

I'm growing very much tired of the same sentence political opponents use against me:

"Other people have it worse than you".
"We are lucky to live in our country and not in some war-torn place like Syria".

This implies that because others have it worse then you or me, we should not strive for embetterment of our own lives or political systems at home.
It implies that we should be humble and eternally thankful and btw. never question our politicians or the governmental system, the welfare state or anything else.

Well, I'd say it is a logical fallacy to adopt the "others-have-it-worse-so-we-need-not-have-it-better".

Please answer this simple question:

How can it be a bad thing to improve your life, so long it does not make others lives worse,
and furthermore: How can a human being have it "too good"?
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Chronos
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16 Jun 2018, 4:18 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
I'm growing very much tired of the same sentence political opponents use against me:

"Other people have it worse than you".
"We are lucky to live in our country and not in some war-torn place like Syria".

This implies that because others have it worse then you or me, we should not strive for embetterment of our own lives or political systems at home.
It implies that we should be humble and eternally thankful and btw. never question our politicians or the governmental system, the welfare state or anything else.

Well, I'd say it is a logical fallacy to adopt the "others-have-it-worse-so-we-need-not-have-it-better".

Please answer this simple question:

How can it be a bad thing to improve your life, so long it does not make others lives worse,
and furthermore: How can a human being have it "too good"?
Top


Next time someone says that to you, I would pull out $10 or $20 and ask them if they wanted it. Most people tend to say yes. Then I would ask them why they want the money given all the things they already have.

Most people want to better their lives in some way. It's why we are not all running around naked and living in caves.



Fnord
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16 Jun 2018, 4:26 pm

It's called the Argumentum ad Misericordiam (argument from pity or misery), which is the fallacy committed when pity or a related emotion such as sympathy or compassion is appealed to for the sake of getting a conclusion accepted. The usual conclusion I have encountered goes something like "They have it bad, thus you don't have it bad at all".

I once complained to a church leader that I was unpopular, had no friends, couldn't get a girlfriend, et cetera, ad nauseum (just like about a dozen other members on this website do now). She took me to a nursing home and introduced me to person after person who had seriously physical, emotional, and mental problems. At the end of the "tour", she turned to me and asked, "There; now don't you feel ashamed of yourself?"

Gee, thanks a lot, you sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, two-legged female canine (or words to that effect).

I never talked to her again; nor did I ever return to that church. I didn't go to any church for a few decades after that, either.

... anyway ... what were we talking about again ... ?

:wink:


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Spooky_Mulder
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16 Jun 2018, 4:42 pm

It’s a phrase that bigots sometimes use to try to silence minorities especially in the case you’re giving - I think:

“The lgbtq still face persecution!”
“At least you’re not getting thrown off rooftops!”

Wait... huh?



mended
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16 Jun 2018, 4:47 pm

I think you can be grateful for what you have without needing to refer to those who have less.


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thinkinginpictures
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16 Jun 2018, 6:15 pm

mended wrote:
I think you can be grateful for what you have without needing to refer to those who have less.


True. But most people are committing this logical fallacy.



thinkinginpictures
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16 Jun 2018, 6:17 pm

Fnord wrote:
It's called the Argumentum ad Misericordiam (argument from pity or misery), which is the fallacy committed when pity or a related emotion such as sympathy or compassion is appealed to for the sake of getting a conclusion accepted. The usual conclusion I have encountered goes something like "They have it bad, thus you don't have it bad at all".

I once complained to a church leader that I was unpopular, had no friends, couldn't get a girlfriend, et cetera, ad nauseum (just like about a dozen other members on this website do now). She took me to a nursing home and introduced me to person after person who had seriously physical, emotional, and mental problems. At the end of the "tour", she turned to me and asked, "There; now don't you feel ashamed of yourself?"

Gee, thanks a lot, you sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, two-legged female canine (or words to that effect).

I never talked to her again; nor did I ever return to that church. I didn't go to any church for a few decades after that, either.

... anyway ... what were we talking about again ... ?

:wink:


Thanks, I was actually looking for the latin name of the logical fallacy, but could not find it using google.

I hate logical fallacies. Some logical fallacies should result in fines!



sly279
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16 Jun 2018, 6:59 pm

Me and other lonely single men get told it quite a bit here



kraftiekortie
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16 Jun 2018, 7:17 pm

It’s not a fallacy.

Some people have it worse than you.....but some people have it better.

I believe we should all strive to improve....but I also think we should be grateful for what we have already.

It’s always good to have that thing called “perspective.”

I feel fortunate to have a roof over my head, and food in my belly. Many people don’t have either.

It means I don’t get myself extremely upset if I don’t, say, have a Lamborghini or have the ability to just leave my job and travel the world.



LoveNotHate
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16 Jun 2018, 7:21 pm

"People in China are starving, so eat your brussels sprouts". :)


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16 Jun 2018, 7:27 pm

I can relate.

Because apparently because someone else has it worse my struggles no longer matter.

It isn't a competition but some people seem to make it such.


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kraftiekortie
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16 Jun 2018, 7:42 pm

That’s a fallacy......that everybody’s struggles don’t matter. They most certainly do!

But....sometimes, when something is not “the end of the world,” it’s truly not “the end of the world.”

A stubbed toe is not a fractured femur.



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16 Jun 2018, 7:45 pm

You're hungry? Well, people in Hell want ice-water.


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Fnord
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16 Jun 2018, 7:51 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s not a fallacy...
:roll:

It's a legally-recognized fallacy -- a method of influencing a person by inspiring pity and/or "shame of privilege" in
that person's mind.

Look it up.


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kraftiekortie
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16 Jun 2018, 8:41 pm

I don’t find that’s always the intention, though.

Syllogistic logic doesn’t always yield logical results.



techstepgenr8tion
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16 Jun 2018, 10:35 pm

At the OP - context is king.

It's not always bad, negligent, or dismissive to say these things but yes - when it amounts to a show of complaisance you may be either talking to an either intellectually or physically lazy person or you could be talking to someone who doesn't have much faith in their own capacities to better the world at all.

As for the emotional comfort of thinking of people who have it worse - it usually does the opposite, the moment I think of how much my hardships rub me the wrong way and I then think of all the people who have it far worse it tends to just add anger on their behalf at the human condition. Sometimes it seems like there's a going assumption that the person making the starting comment is callow enough to say 'wow, thank God someone has it worse - now I don't feel so bad'. When you really think about it, getting comfort from that seems a little perverse.


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