Free Will - the illusion

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free will fails the uncommon sense test.

You could maybe ...learn to bring up the topic in a disarming way...like this lady does.

^^^amazingly, i understood every word, and long have agreed with her, she is the first person i've heard put it into words so succinctly.

Yes ,, yes ,but who is the piper .? And curious as to what might be intentions ?

In my view "the big bang" is the piper.
And in my view the piper have no intentions, it just happens.

Who is the piper from the piper

the piper is the unknown comic, perceived by earthings to have an existential bag over its head.

Not only the piper have a bag over his head.
Every single human on planet earth have a bag over his head.

Accepting that i am blind gives me a better and more clear view, sounds maybe like a contradiction in terminus, but thats how i feel it.
I dont like kissing in real life, but the kissing couple from the artist René Magritte i like very much.

I believe in 100% predeterminism and 0% free will.

I look at astrology sometimes, when I put my birthday into a website to get my chart calculated I read the interpretation and it was so accurate that I cant believe in free will anymore..and after becoming Christian the bible denies free will pretty much.

@ Klanka.
Do you live with the illusion that you have a free will?
I dont believe in free will (science), but in my daily life i live with the illusion that i have one.

“Words of the Prophets are written on the Subway walls , towns and halls” . Line from a Old Simon and Garfunkel tune .

Acting/living everyday life without the idea of free will could have some interesting consequences - crime and other transgressions could be seen as malfunction/illness, rather than ill intent.
Imprisonment and fineswould still function as a deterrent.... But I imagine things more difficult in human interaction, where such impersonal deterrents don't work as a deterrent, because they wouldn't be feasible.
What's keeping on partner from cheating, short of the end of the relationship? But how would you justify that once the cheating has taken place, in a case where it didn't deter?
The unfaithful partner isn't reslonsible, so would you break up the relationship because the other has "cheater's brain"?

@ Shlaifu.
It might help to watch Douglas R. Hofstadter's film "Victim of the Brain". Broadly speaking, Hofstader talks about the illusion. A special gentleman.

That people think they have free will is a process of millions of years of evolution. It really isn't going away anytime soon. Within non-dualism, the realization that free will is purely an illusion is even a positive foundation, it enlightens the mind. The realization that people don't have free will makes me milder towards people who exhibit morally reprehensible behavior. I think that mildness has a calming effect.

---

Considering That Our Conscious Word Thinking Mind Consists of About A Half of A Percent

iN All of What Makes Us Keep 'Ticking' Within; Including, Vast Non-Verbal Subconscious Aspects

Of Our Mind That Keep Our "Dreams Awake" at Night;

Obviously, Humans Only Have Free Will

Relative to Both Nature And Nurture

of What We Come to Be As Basically

Modern Neuroscience 'Dictates' That

We Basically "Hallucinate" Our Realities As We
Go, Based on Prior "Hallucinations" Of Life Experiences

Before; Surely, Experiences Described By Folks Who Imbibe
In Hallucinogenic Substances Do Reply; Yes, This Seems to

Be Their Substance Enhanced Realities When They Do Partake

ThiS Way; Of Course, Even Atheist Sam Harris And Social Scientist

Jonathan Haidt Relate A Real Ascending Transcending Experience of

Humanity That May Be Communally Experienced in Activities Similar

As Rock Concerts, Southern Baptist Gospel Singings, And Even Combat

Veteran's Experiences Together Getting All Bloody AS Such too; Sure, It's

True, i Know A Navy Captain Well Decorated All the Way Enlisted in Vietnam
Thru Commodore at A Navy Station And Working At the Pentagon; Oh Dear Lord,

In His Seventies Still Squatting and
Bench Pressing 450 Pounds Who

Related if He Could, He Would

Go Back to Combat For that

Ascending Transcendental Communal

Environment in Flow With All His War Buddies Again;

True That Ascending Transcending Flow Experience May
Also Be Obtained Through Mountain Climbing Adventures

With No Safety Harnesses too in the Sweet spot Tween Anxiety

And Apathy For Real; Okay, It's Obvious That NO ONE HAS TOTAL FREE

WILL AS IF WE DID, WE'D SPEND A WHOLE LOT OF EFFORT DIRECTING OUR
HEART BEATS
WHAT TO DO;

On the Other Hand, in
'Olympic Style Meditation'
For Those Who Practice Avenues

For Greater Relative Free, They Will Experience

Levels of Super Focus And Attention; Short Term
Working Memory; Long Term Memory Retrieval
Now New For Greater Creativity and Productivity

As They Tune Their Minds for Gamma Waves
Even When They Are No Longer Meditating; Yes,

By Relative Free Will ThiS Way; Yes, Similar As Other

Monks in Icy Pools of Water Steaming Warmth Off Their
Skin Regulating Their Autonomic Temperature Regulation;

And Of Course, Regulating Not Only Their Heart Beats Yet Yes

Regulating Their Emotions And Integrating Their Senses Where

In Autotelic Way They Master How Blissful They Care to Be Day-to-Day

Now-to-Now; Yes, Always Now; So YEP, Even from these small examples

It's Safe to Say And Dance and Sing Free in Flow That Some Human Beings Seek and

Find Practices of Life, Either From Within Instinctually And Intuitively or By Others

Who Mutually
And Consensually

Agree on Practices In Life

That Result in Total Harmony,
Peace, Compassion, Bliss and
What Some Folks Metaphor as
Nirvana Among Unlimited Other

Metaphors To Describe The Essence
of Relative Free Will IN Human Potentials;

True, What Great Free Will THere Is NoW iN 'Relative'
Terms Newly Mastering How Blissful We Care to Be

Now Without Any External Substances at All; Science
Already Shows This is Human Reality too; It's Just A Matter

of Semantics
of Whether Ya
Wanna Call Mastery of
Existence Eternally NoW in Bliss,

Relative Free Will, OR Just An Act of Doing Heaven Now.

Considering That Some Folks Believe Whatever Folks Literally
Tell Them Are Written As Myths in Books Thousands of Year Ago

As 'Gospel'
Unerring Truth
From Authors They've
Never Seen Or Met As

True Ghost Authors Are Who
Mostly Wrote Their Books Unnamed,
Some Greek Writing Elite Romans too;

And True Even Believing All the LIES That
come Out of the Mouth of Demagogue,
Donald J Trump, Are Gospel Truth too;

Yes, Jesus F in Christ Even in Terms of
Worshipping The After Life More Than
The Before Death Of Life; It's Obvious

Some of Us Use More Of Our Potentials
of Relative Free Will Than Others in Terms of

"Locus of Control," As Some Folks Let Others Spoon
Feed Their Stories of Life to Master them and They

Attach Themselves to it Like A Rubber Baby Bottle For Real;

Others Though Come Much Closer to Writing, Producing, Directing,

And Actually

Playing THeiR
Own Stories of Existence;

It's Kinda Easy to See; looking
At the Actions And Consequences
In 'Karma' of What They Actually Do Now;

Some Rise;
Some Fall;
Life Ain't Fair;

Never the Less, AND POTENTIALLY MUCH, MUCH MORE;
Some Rise; Some Fall; Some Even Rise Again NeW NoW FOR REAL

Developing
THeiR Own
New Styles
of Relative Free
Will Expanding so
Very Many More Human Potentials FoR Real..

---

^^^^ am firmly convinced the above. Actually some sort of literary art .
That should be documented even cataloged.
With from what I see is brilliant responses to things written here explaining in concepts . Reminiscent almost every time as a version of Japanese
“Hai Ku literatures”

If there is no free will, certainly the cheating partner has no choice, but then the cheated partner also has no choice but to react the way they react. Similarly, a criminal has no choice but to commit a crime, and the judge was always going to pass whatever sentence is passed. The judge might also have to say "you didn't have to commit that crime but you decided of your own free will to do it, so you deserve this sentence." I am pre-programmed to think that the judge was talking rubbish, that he'd have impressed me more if he'd said that he thought his sentence would probably deter the criminal in future and/or deter other people who might otherwise commit the same crime. I tend to blame judges who don't talk in my preferred way, but I know they can't help it. They had no choice, and I had no choice but to sneer at those judges.

Fatalism feels weird to me but I can't see how it could be incorrect. Even though I've accepted its veracity it hasn't changed my behaviour AFAIK. I still get out of bed every day, I still make decisions, etc. just as I used to when I thought I had some control over things. I still feel I have some control over things, but I don't think I do. I don't think there's a being pulling my strings, I think it's just the universe being what it is. If I believed in a supernatural soul then I might think rather differently, because a supernatural agent might be capable of breaking the laws of nature.