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MalchikBrodyaga
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16 Sep 2018, 7:19 am

I tried talking to other people about my interpretation of Matt 24:17 and they all disagreed with me, apparently not even knowing why I thought that way on the first place. So, this time, let me present it a little bit differently. Before talking about that verse, let me talk about my own childhood, and then you will see exactly why I read that verse the way I do.

I am originally from Russia (I came to the US at 14). Back when I when I was little, in Russia, my mom spent part of her time at my dad's apartment, part of the time at her parent's houlse. I guess my parents were semi-married semi-separated, which continued throughout the rest of the time when they were both alive. For that reason, I was also spending part time in one apartment part time at the other. I always liked my grandparents apartment a lot more, was trying to run away so that I could get to my grandparents apartment (which never worked since the two apartments were around 15 miles apart from each other so I was simply missing). When I was living at my father's apartment, my grandmother was spending considerable time there taking care of me, when my parents were at work. I kept trying to persuade her to "go to my grandfather" (meaning, my grandparents apartment) and, on a couple of occasions, I actually grabbed her by hand and dragged her in random directions "to go to my grandfather". I also had some dreams of my running away from my fathers apartment into my grandparents apartment, which would typically involve lots of wondering around the streets, other people's apartments, etc. to get to that destination.

Despite all this, there is one big paradox: the rooms in both apartments were equally scary, and I had nightmares about both rooms. Apparently when I was looking for grandparents apartment, I wasn't thinking about the room, but once I was at that apartment -- and had to face that room -- it was really scary. That doesn't mean that the room at my fathers apartment was scary too. They were both scary, just the details were different. And both rooms were called "bezdna". That was back in Russia which is where I am from and I only learned English several years later, so you would think I would know the meaning of Russian word "bezdna". But, back at that early age, I didn't. So I asked my mom what it meant and she said it meant bottomless pit (well like I said I didn't speak English back then, so whatever explanation she gave in Russian amounted to that). I was surprised because I was almost sure the word "bezdna" meant a type of a room. As a matter of fact, I was never scared of anything out in the nature, I was only scared of rooms. That added to the surprise.

Anyway, let me go ahead and described what I saw in nightmares about those two apartments:

My father's apartment In my room at the apartment I was scared of a closet and curtains. I would have nightmares where the closet started to walk, and that closet would generate electric sensation in the air, which would get stronger and stronger when it gets closer to where I am. The curtains sometimes would walk too (I called them "tselitsel" -- and thats the word I invented, it doesn't exist either in Russian or in English). Sometimes I would also see sparks of lights coming from the curtains -- that would be a sign that they are about to start walking. Sometimes the curtains would cause me to fly through the window. I was always trying to avoid this at all costs which makes no sense, because once I was out the window I was glad to be out: I no loner had to face that room, and flying was rather nice (I wouldn't fall, I would fly). So the only reason I was scared of that is that I had to pass by the curtains *before* I was finally outside, and I was scared of them (they might produce the electric sensation the closet did, and they might also do other evil things to me). But, once I was outside the window, I was glad it was over. In most of my dreams merely standing close enough to the window would automatically make me fly through it, so I was avoiding standing close to it. However, I would try to come up with my own ways -- not involving the curtains -- to get out of that room. For example, I remember that one dream where some little beings at the toy house my parents built for me (yes that toy house was real, and it was large enough for me to climb on it and stuff) told me that there is that little tunnel through the back of that toy house that would get me outside, and we were working a plan as to how to get there (I don't remember whether we succeeded or not). While most of my nightmares about that appartment involved my own room, sometimes they also involved the rest of the apartment too. For example, in the room of my parents the door was evil. I had one dream where my third cousin, who lived few hours away, came all the way to our apartment to help us deal with that door. That door was able to walk, so we were fighting it in the middle of the room rather than at the place where the door normally is. Despite the fact that all four of us were fighting it, the door still won. Once it won, it was going to teach us the strategy on how to fight better in the future. But there was a caviat: when it was teaching us, it was continuing to fight us producing ticklish sensation. So we were all telling it "we understand, we understand" just to get it to stop, but it was like "no you don't" as it was continuing tickling us. I also had few dreams when I would start off at my own room but then decide to walk into the hallway only to realize that walking into a hallway didn't help me escape anything, since the bathroom is just as scary. For example, the bathroom was "narrow". Normally, when you think of "narrow" you think of some practical difficulties. But nope, those difficulties weren't even part of the dream at all. Instead, the word "narrow" implied some sort of evil spirits there. Then I decided to go to the kitchen instead, but it didn't help either: the kitchen windows were also scary.

My grandparents apartment In my grandparents apartment, just like in my parents appartment, the most typical nightmare would involve my own room, yet if it happens that I am at any other part of the appartment it would also be scary. Both in my father's apartment and in my grandparent's apartment I was scared of the closet in my room. But the closet in my grandparents apartment was even worse in a sense that I wouldn't be able to physically move at all. Now, the closet in my father's apartment might also make it difficult for me to physically move, but in that case I might still move, just with a lot of difficulties; but in my grandparents apartment I wouldn't be able to move at all once the closet starts walking. The other thing that made my grandparents apartment even worse is that, as mentioned earlier, sometimes I was able to get out of the father's apartment; in case of grandparents appartment I couldn't get out: once the closet starts walking, I was just stuck there, not able to move, until I finally wake up. Also, just like in my father's apartment, the closet in my grandparents apartment would produce a tickling sensation. But the sensation the closet at my grandparents apartment produce would be a lot worse -- and I am stuck with it not able to do anything. Oftentimes when the closet would walk, it would be accompanied by a song "eh kakaya glubokaya bezdna nad nami" (which is to say "oh what a deep pit is above us"). On a flip side, the curtains is something that *only* aplies to my father's apartment and not to my grandparents: in case of my grandparents apartment it simply never occurred to me to even think of curtains altogether. On the other hand, I was also scared of the door in my room in my grandparents apartment (yes I mentioend the door in my parent's room at my father's apartment, but that was just one time, whereas the door in my grandparents apartment was always scaring me). But I don't remember if I had any of the dreams featuring the door to my room in my grandparents apartment; rather, I would just be staring at that door while I was still awake and it would keep me from falling asleep (I was particularly scared of that little gap between the top of the door and the wall above it). I did have a lot of dreams, however, regarding a *different* door in my grandparents apartment -- namely the door into appartment itself. If I ever get too close to that door, it would make me fly through it and then fly through the streets all the way into my father's apartment. Now, as mentioned earlier, the curtains at my father's apartment would also make me fly through them if I am standing too close. But in case of the curtains, once I am outside, I regain the control which allows me to decide where I want to fly. But in case of my grandparents apartment, I don't regain a control once I flew through that door: I am forced to fly all the way to my father's apartment, and not have any choice in this regard. But I guess its still better than to be immobilized in that room with walking closet.

This finally gets me back to the topic of the thread -- interpretation of Matt 24:17 COuld it be that, at the end times, demonic spirits will live in the houses which would cause some of the experiences I saw in the dreams to become reality? Could THAT be why Jesus commanded those in the housetops not to go down to the house? When I brought it up to other people they were telling me that it had nothing to do with that but, instead, He simply meant "run away as fast as possible". But -- UNLESS there is something supernatural going on -- avoiding the house is not going to speed you up, it would only slow you down. If you are at the housetop, it would be really difficult to climb down by the wall without hurting yourself instead of simply walking through the apartment. But *IF* the apartments will be posessed by evil spirits, that would totally explain why Jesus would give such advice. What do you think?



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16 Sep 2018, 10:10 am

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
... This finally gets me back to the topic of the thread -- interpretation of Matt 24:17[/b] COuld it be that, at the end times, demonic spirits will live in the houses which would cause some of the experiences I saw in the dreams to become reality? Could THAT be why Jesus commanded those in the housetops not to go down to the house? When I brought it up to other people they were telling me that it had nothing to do with that but, instead, He simply meant "run away as fast as possible". But -- UNLESS there is something supernatural going on -- avoiding the house is not going to speed you up, it would only slow you down. If you are at the housetop, it would be really difficult to climb down by the wall without hurting yourself instead of simply walking through the apartment. But *IF* the apartments will be posessed by evil spirits, that would totally explain why Jesus would give such advice. What do you think?
Amazing that so much esoterica ca be derived from one Bible verse that was taken out of context...

”Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.". As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ, ' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. — Matthew 24:2-7 (NIV)

Clearly, Jesus is warning His followers to beware of false prophets, such as those who twist and distort what Jesus said to suit their own aims. False prophets will stir up trouble just to see war, conflict, and hatred, all the while pretending that it was not their fault, but the fault of some non-existent (and non-proveable ) demon.


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16 Sep 2018, 10:16 am

Such phenomena that may be termed as «malevolent spirits» have been well-documented in the research-field of para-psychology. Also, the so-called «demonic spirits» as you put it, is nothing new; such things have existed since even before the creation of this universe. According to research-documentation, haunting spirits can not only possess people (and even animals as referenced in Matthew 8:28-34), but also specific locations.

We just simply have more sophisticated technology and scientific-sounding terms to use in this «information-age» society to describe what has been described/experienced by a number of people on a past day. Tell you what... I am just going to quote from one particular publication and let you decide for yourself. Not going to quote the whole entire chapter, nor even every paragraph related to this research, but it should still convey enough information...:

«This isn't unusual. It often happens in hauntings. And it has even been experimentally investigated. Dr. Robert Morris, a psychologist, reports that a researcher investigated a supposedly haunted house in Kentucky with the help of four animals ー a dog, a cat, a rat, and a rattlesnake. The haunting phenomena seemed to focus on one room in the house, where tragic events had occurred. When placed in another room in the house, the animals behaved quite normally, but when placed in the haunted room, they reacted strongly. The dog snarled and refused to stay in the room at all. The cat hissed, and, leaping from the investigator's arms, spat at an unoccupied and apparently innocent chair in the room. Although the rat did not react unusually when brought into the room, the rattlesnake did ― it immediately assumed an attack posture facing the same chair which had upset the cat!»
Quoted from page 41 of the publication : «You Cannot Die: The Incredible Findings of a Century of Research on Death» (ISBN#: 0-458-93750-9 / ISBN: 0-416-00191-2)
The chapter notes sourced the following reference for that excerpt : «Dr. Robert Morris, Theta, #33, #34, (1971-1972). Cited in D. Scott Rogo, An Experience of Phantoms, (New York: Taplinger Publishing Co., Inc., 1974), p. 50.»

Jesus was certainly a true prophet and could «see» into the «spirit-world» but there is also plenty of information about him and his teachings that were not recorded down by the «scribes» (ref John 21:25). The New Testament is only a tiny snap-shot of some references to the «other-worldly» realities, not the full picture.

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
This finally gets me back to the topic of the thread -- interpretation of Matt 24:17 COuld it be that, at the end times, demonic spirits will live in the houses which would cause some of the experiences I saw in the dreams to become reality? Could THAT be why Jesus commanded those in the housetops not to go down to the house? When I brought it up to other people they were telling me that it had nothing to do with that but, instead, He simply meant "run away as fast as possible". But -- UNLESS there is something supernatural going on -- avoiding the house is not going to speed you up, it would only slow you down. If you are at the housetop, it would be really difficult to climb down by the wall without hurting yourself instead of simply walking through the apartment. But *IF* the apartments will be posessed by evil spirits, that would totally explain why Jesus would give such advice. What do you think?


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16 Sep 2018, 10:25 am

Oh, sweet reference ! Thanks for bringing up that passage, Fnord. Now for more quoting...

Visit my web site and tell all that any person truly seeking Salvation had better now spread the TRUE word of God by 'pointing' all to MY web sites, for all 'ministers' of religion of every religion are in ERROR and all are soon to BE filled with TERROR for 'coming' in MY name and deceiving multitudes of GOD'S precious flocks as they said - -

"In the name of Jesus we 'do this and that'- -
"In the name of Christ we 'promise this or that' - - -
"In the name of God we 'bless you and you' - -

For I sent NONE of them and neither did I tell ANY to praise MY 'last life' name. The last 'battle' is one within the mind of sinful man, and, this battle is where the thoughts of demons 'enter' as they incite and 'invite' you to let them 'possess' you so that they can do what they wish to, using your 'arms' and their vengeful voice by your mouth is spoken, and this they can and will do VIA the dark 'sin' emotions within you.

( Quoted from http://the-testament-of-truth.co.uk/truth/web/sodomy4.htm )

Fnord wrote:
”Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.". As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ, ' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. — Matthew 24:2-7 (NIV)


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16 Sep 2018, 11:12 am

People need to stop reading that worthless book.



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16 Sep 2018, 1:16 pm

People who do read the Bible should read it for what it actually says, and not for what they want it to mean.


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17 Sep 2018, 1:55 pm

MeH; THere IS A 'Trump' Born Every Generation
or so or More; And A 'Lao Tzu' too or even 'Three' or More too;
And Loyal Minions In A 'Me3' Movie too; Nothing New Under A Sun Here;
However, one thing remains two or more, too;
There are no Limits to Interpretations
of Metaphors
Except
for Those
who do not
Understand
'The MeTapHorse' TalKing..;)


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