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IsabellaLinton
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02 Oct 2018, 10:02 pm

EzraS wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So there's a body language expert speaking out against Ford and another speaking out against Kavanaugh. It would be preferable to have an expert give an unbiased analysis of both.


Are the body language experts specialists in trauma? I'm sure my body language as a person with PTSD is different from other victims', even excluding the attributes from my ASD. I don't know the answer to this because I can't watch any more. It's physically painful to me.


I would imagine they are trained on how to assess such things. They wouldn't be of much use if they are unable to.


I should hope so too, but I haven't heard it mentioned as a variable. Thanks Ezra.



EzraS
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02 Oct 2018, 10:12 pm

I have never been sexually assaulted. But I have been physically assaulted a few times. I had to get stitched up after one assault. Another time I was viciously attacked by 3 who pinned me down forced me to eat dirt.



IsabellaLinton
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02 Oct 2018, 10:37 pm

EzraS wrote:
I have never been sexually assaulted. But I have been physically assaulted a few times. I had to get stitched up after one assault. Another time I was viciously attacked by 3 who pinned me down forced me to eat dirt.


I'm so sorry, Ezra. I don't know what else to say except that I understand, I've been there too, and I'm so sorry.



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02 Oct 2018, 10:53 pm

EzraS wrote:
I have never been sexually assaulted. But I have been physically assaulted a few times. I had to get stitched up after one assault. Another time I was viciously attacked by 3 who pinned me down forced me to eat dirt.

I too am sorry you went through that experience. Feeling powerless and humiliated is deeply traumatizing and many people here can relate to the trauma you went through.


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EzraS
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02 Oct 2018, 11:17 pm

For some reason I felt motivated to let be known that I do know first hand what it's like to have a traumatic experience, be assaulted, victimized, feel helpless etc.

Not addressed to anyone in particular, but there's a f**k of a lot of peer pressure and even bullying in these forums to be part of the status quo.



blackicmenace
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02 Oct 2018, 11:33 pm

Being a part of the herd is overrated. People feel pressured to do things they later regret all for the sake of fitting in, to avoid being ostracized. They aren't at all authentic.


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IsabellaLinton
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02 Oct 2018, 11:41 pm

As we've learned, others are shunned for telling the truth. It's a lose-lose situation sometimes, unfortunately.



EzraS
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02 Oct 2018, 11:46 pm

blackicmenace wrote:
Being a part of the herd is overrated. People feel pressured to do things they later regret all for the sake of fitting in, to avoid being ostracized. They aren't at all authentic.


That's what I would expect most if not all autistic people to say/think.

Yet that's not what I've seen and experienced here in several cases. Rather attempts at or outright negatively labeling people to get rid of them because they're not all in with the herd. And then they say "gee where did those who didn't completely agree with and fit in with us go?".



blackicmenace
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03 Oct 2018, 12:01 am

EzraS wrote:
blackicmenace wrote:
Being a part of the herd is overrated. People feel pressured to do things they later regret all for the sake of fitting in, to avoid being ostracized. They aren't at all authentic.


That's what I would expect most if not all autistic people to say/think.

Yet that's not what I've seen and experienced here in several cases. Rather attempts at or outright negatively labeling people to get rid of them because they're not all in with the herd. And then they say "gee where did those who didn't completely agree with and fit in with us go?".


Sometimes it's best to agree to disagree if the conversation involves conflicting ideologies. These fundamental beliefs are acquired over a lifetime and are slow to change if there is any change whatsoever. People often feel as if they are under attack because it is personal and don't deal with it objectively.


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03 Oct 2018, 1:10 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
The thing about Kavanaugh....is that he's talking about some "Democratic conspiracy" or something like that. Something along the lines of what Trump might say.

He's not fit to be a Justice----because he can't get out of his own political way.



and because there is reasonable proof that he participated in attempted gang rape, forcible confinement and suffocation.

Case closed.


There is no proof - no DNA, no video, no corroboration.

There is some corroboration and proof that he was part of the heavy drinking culture and circumstantial evidence part of the unbitiquous male entitltment culture of that time that objectified and infantilized females. This makes it plausible he did what he is accused of, that is not proof he did what he is accused of. Part of that culture was males bragging about stuff they did not do to impress thier friends and not be thought of as a “homo”.

I believe he lied under oath about his involvment in the male culture of the time. As a male who was around at the time I find that his explanation of what “Renate Alumnus”, “boofing” etc meant strains credulity. While his anger and conspiracy theorizing can reasonably be explained as a man wrongly accussed and the political atmosphere of the current time it raises suspicion that that he still feels entitled.

Kavanaugh’s 1983 Letter Offers Inside Look at High School Clique
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The beachfront property was rented, the guests were invited and an ever-organized Brett M. Kavanaugh had some advice for the seven Georgetown Preparatory School classmates who would be joining him for the weeklong escapade.

In a 1983 letter, a copy of which was reviewed by The New York Times, the young Judge Kavanaugh warned his friends of the danger of eviction from an Ocean City, Md., condo. In a neatly written postscript, he added: Whoever arrived first at the condo should “warn the neighbors that we’re loud, obnoxious drunks with prolific pukers among us. Advise them to go about 30 miles...”

Recent interviews with more than a dozen classmates and friends from that time depict Judge Kavanaugh as a member of a small clique of football players who dominated Georgetown Prep’s work-hard, play-hard culture. His circle celebrated a culture of heavy drinking, even by the standards of that era.

With the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s background check into the judge reopened, two of his closest high school friends, Mark Judge and Patrick J. Smyth, have been interviewed by F.B.I. agents. Another, Tim Gaudette, was named in Judge Kavanaugh’s testimony as the host of a July 1982 gathering, around the time that Christine Blasey Ford says she was assaulted. Mr. Gaudette has hired a lawyer to represent him and was interviewed by the F.B.I. on Tuesday, the lawyer said.

A different classmate, who was friendly with Judge Kavanaugh and requested anonymity to protect his business interests, said he had reached out to the F.B.I. because he believes the judge misrepresented the extent of his drinking during his Senate testimony last week.


Even the faculty adviser to Georgetown Prep’s 1983 yearbook — a publication littered with debasing comments about women and references to drunken debauchery — has been wondering whether he will hear from the F.B.I., a family member said.

Parties, in the backyards of classmates’ suburban homes when their parents were away, would often attract hundreds of students from nearby private schools, his classmates recall. Five or 10 kegs would be procured and, if all went as planned, drained by the end of the night.

One night during his senior year, according to classmates who witnessed it, Judge Kavanaugh triumphantly hoisted an empty beer keg above his head, in recognition that he and his friends were well on their way to reaching their goal of polishing off 100 kegs during the academic year — an achievement they later boasted about in their yearbook.

Four Georgetown Prep classmates said they saw Judge Kavanaugh and his friends partake in binge-drinking rituals many weekends in which other partygoers saw them inebriated, even having difficulty standing. Three of those classmates signed a July letter, along with more than 150 other alumni, that endorsed him for the Supreme Court.

Kavanaugh, an only child and sports fanatic, surrounded himself in high school with athletes. Among his closest friends, classmates said, were Mr. Judge, Christopher C. Garrett and Don Urgo Jr. Other members of the clique included Mr. Gaudette and DeLancey Davis.

“Academically, athletically and socially, we all became literally almost like brothers,” Mr. Urgo said in an interview with The Times in July. He got to know Judge Kavanaugh as a fellow altar boy in elementary school. “We had a particular esprit de corps, a zest for life, as a group.”

They played basketball and board games. They also drank.

“It was part of the social life,” said Tobin Finizio, now a radiologist who was then the football team’s quarterback. “In the late ’70s and early ’80s, if you look at the statistics, underage drinking was fairly prevalent. We look at it now and say, ‘Oh my God, that was crazy.’”


Kavanaugh’s Yearbook Page Is ‘Horrible, Hurtful’ to a Woman It Named
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The 1983 yearbook, for example, includes multiple apparent references to the Ku Klux Klan (but not on Judge Kavanaugh’s page). His page, in addition to the “Alumnius” entry, mentions his role as “treasurer” of the “Keg City Club.”

Some of Judge Kavanaugh’s high school peers said there was a widespread culture at the time of objectifying women.

“People claiming that they had sex with other people was not terribly unusual, and it was not terribly believable,” said William Fishburne, who was in Judge Kavanaugh’s graduating class and was a manager for the football team. “Not just Brett Kavanaugh and his particular group, but all the classmates in general. People would claim things they hadn’t done to sort of seem bigger than they were, older than they were.”

Bill Barbot, who was a freshman at Georgetown Prep when Judge Kavanaugh was a senior, said Judge Kavanaugh and his clique were part of the school’s “fratty” culture. “There was a lot of talk and presumably a lot of action about sexual conquest with girls,” Mr. Barbot said.

Ms. Dolphin was a subject of that braggadocio, according to Mr. Hagan and another classmate, who requested anonymity because he fears retribution. They said Judge Kavanaugh and his friends were seeking to memorialize their supposed conquests with the “Renate” yearbook references.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 03 Oct 2018, 1:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

EzraS
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03 Oct 2018, 1:14 am

I think the whole process in this case is dodgy and I think both Kavanaugh and Ford are dodgy as well. I think they should scrap the whole thing and press restart.



ASPartOfMe
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03 Oct 2018, 1:30 am

EzraS wrote:
I think the whole process in this case is dodgy and I think both Kavanaugh and Ford are dodgy as well. I think they should scrap the whole thing and press restart.


I have heard some commentators wondering why do they not just put up another conservative that would be a slam dunk to be confirmed and once he or she is on the bench consistantly rule in favor of the conservative agenda. Past writing seem to indicate he would protect Trump from Mueller or it maybe they want the best candidate to own the libs.


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03 Oct 2018, 1:46 am

feeli0 wrote:
I am steeling myself against the barrage of victim blaming which has already started.

No-one can possibly know the utter horror of gang-rape unless they have been through it, (I have) and the lifetime of trying to get well and recover from the depths of despair. There is almost no chance of reporting it at the time - (of course there may be people who have been able to, I haven't heard of any) - but I think I was almost in my fifties before I even began to be able to recover. I in no way led a 'normal' life after that event, and spent a great deal of time deep in alcoholism and drug addiction. (I stopped drinking and drugging 29 years ago).

I think the woman who has put herself forward is incredibly brave - and my concern is that she will be torn to pieces by the people with the republican agenda. I hope with all my heart that she has guardian angels (people or spiritual) that will be with her and support her.

I don't usually speak up about such matters but my time on WP although short has been a time of finding refuge and finding my Aspie self.


I'm so sorry that happened to you. You are an inspiration to have quit such a hard thing to overcome as drink and drugs. That makes you better than a war hero in my eyes. I agree with everything you've said and add my prayers to yours. :heart:


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EzraS
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03 Oct 2018, 2:03 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I think the whole process in this case is dodgy and I think both Kavanaugh and Ford are dodgy as well. I think they should scrap the whole thing and press restart.


I have heard some commentators wondering why do they not just put up another conservative that would be a slam dunk to be confirmed and once he or she is on the bench consistantly rule in favor of the conservative agenda. Past writing seem to indicate he would protect Trump from Mueller or it maybe they want the best candidate to own the libs.


As far as filling the position with that kind of conservative goes, I liked someone's suggestion of Jeanine Pirro. I find that idea amusing since she's so staunchly pro trump far as I know.



EzraS
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03 Oct 2018, 2:36 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
The thing about Kavanaugh....is that he's talking about some "Democratic conspiracy" or something like that. Something along the lines of what Trump might say.

He's not fit to be a Justice----because he can't get out of his own political way.



and because there is reasonable proof that he participated in attempted gang rape, forcible confinement and suffocation.

Case closed.


There is no proof - no DNA, no video, no corroboration.


The frustrating thing in this is anything that could possibly be corroborated, are things that were completely forgotten.

I remember exactly where I was when I was violently attacked and assaulted by 3 strangers, how I got there and what year it was. And I was so traumatised by the incident I had to be hospitalized. But that's me. I know my situation doesn't apply to everyone else.