Bigotry against involuntarily celibate men

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magnetowasright
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27 Oct 2018, 8:32 pm

A quick Google search for "involuntary celibacy" will reveal several articles, all of which labeling all men who are unable to find love as violent misogynists who believe women owe us sex. Articles with titles like: "How involuntary celibates are dangerous in their desires", deeming myself and others like me "dangerous" for nothing more than lamenting our inability to obtain the same kind of affection the rest of society takes for granted; or "Unfuckable women don't go on killing sprees", implying that every unfuckable man does precisely that. These articles cite the grand total of the two (count 'em, TWO!) men to have ever carried out terrorist attacks motivated by chronic involuntary celibacy, in addition to a handful of anonymous Internet posts, as "evidence" that all men in the unfortunate position of being undatable collectively comprise a hate group.
As if it is not enough that I have to cope with the fact that I will always be alone, unwanted, and unloved; society has to add insult to injury by labeling me a violent misogynistic psychopath.
And people wonder why I think so often about suicide...



Fnord
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29 Oct 2018, 9:33 am

Two incels who are known to have carried out terrorist attacks ... as opposed to the hundreds of incels who have threatened and/or carried out rapes and other physical assaults against women ...



alex
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29 Oct 2018, 10:51 am

Identifying as “involuntarily celibate” is not healthy or positive at all. While you may be celibate and not want to be, there are things you can do to fix that situation.

Sure, many autistic guys have trouble with dating, specifically getting a date or having a date result in romance but like all things, you can learn the skills and become successful. But if you give up because you think it’s impossible, you won’t ever improve.


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Fnord
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29 Oct 2018, 10:57 am

alex wrote:
... if you give up because you think it’s impossible, you won’t ever improve.
Ye Olde "Quitters Never Win / Winners Never Quit" mantra.



xDominiel
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29 Oct 2018, 10:59 am

It's a definition problem. The word means different things to different people.
I've seen that more than once, people who just are in a bad place and then get bullied relentlessly and torn to shreds for it by normal "good" people because they didn't know what using the word "incel" really implies to them.

When people talk crap about "incels", just assume they're referring to a strawman guilty of all this:

Quote:
Incels (a portmanteau of involuntary celibates) are members of an online subculture who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one, a state they describe as inceldom. Self-identified incels are mostly white, male, and heterosexual. Discussions in incel forums are often characterized by resentment, misanthropy, self-pity, self-loathing, misogyny, racism, a sense of entitlement to sex, and the endorsement of violence against sexually active people. The Southern Poverty Law Center described the subculture as "part of the online male supremacist ecosystem" that is included in their list of hate groups. People who have either self-identified as incels or who had mentioned incel-related names and writings in their private writings or Internet postings have committed at least four mass murders in North America, resulting in forty-five deaths. Incel communities have been criticized by the media and researchers for being misogynist, encouraging violence, as well as spreading extremist views and radicalizing their members.

Speaking from experience with other groups where that was blatantly false, I have to wonder how accurate the "mostly white, male and straight" is. It's pretty silly how that's always presented as such a damning accusation.



magnetowasright
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29 Oct 2018, 1:19 pm

Fnord wrote:
Two incels who are known to have carried out terrorist attacks ... as opposed to the hundreds of incels who have threatened and/or carried out rapes and other physical assaults against women ...


I am not denying that there is a significant number of individuals who act in this manner, but you'll that in any category of people. For example, the number of Muslims who have carried out or participated in terror attacks around the world is significantly high. Yet no rationally thinking person concludes that their behaviors are reflective of all, or even the majority, of the world's Muslim population. And people who do make such claims are consistently called out and accused of bigotry. But when it comes to men who cannot get girlfriends for a prolonged length of time, the exact kind of bigoted over-generalization does not only never get challenged by the mainstream media but is actively encouraged.



The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Oct 2018, 1:32 pm

Stastically, married and taken men have committed more assaults against women in the course of history; most domestic violence/rapes are committed by partners.



rdos
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29 Oct 2018, 4:33 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Stastically, married and taken men have committed more assaults against women in the course of history; most domestic violence/rapes are committed by partners.


That's true, which disproves the claims.



rdos
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29 Oct 2018, 4:37 pm

I disagree about the reasons why many ND guys are involuntarily single, as well as to the remedies. They need to stop trying to date NTs, be themselves, get a positive outlook of themselves, and then most of the problems will be solved. Trying to fake being NTs will lead nowhere, and cannot fix the negativity most of them show.



xDominiel
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29 Oct 2018, 5:00 pm

rdos wrote:
I disagree about the reasons why many ND guys are involuntarily single, as well as to the remedies. They need to stop trying to date NTs, be themselves, get a positive outlook of themselves, and then most of the problems will be solved. Trying to fake being NTs will lead nowhere, and cannot fix the negativity most of them show.

Well that certainly sounds simple, and I agree, but once you're no longer trying to be NT and are comfortable with just being you, how do you find other people like yourself? Won't that be especially difficult if you aren't really part of NT society in the way that you'll be encountering a lot of people daily? What's your experience there?



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29 Oct 2018, 5:48 pm

No one objects to the celibacy part, just the involuntary part. No one else is to blame for your decision. No one owes you sex.



KimD
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29 Oct 2018, 6:03 pm

I think it's wrong--and foolish--to judge all men who are involuntarily celibate by those online groups. They are, I'm sure, just a small subset of a larger group. (And who know how large that group might actually be, when our society puts so much emphasis on sex that many consider it quite embarrassing to be honest about their actual sexual "status"?)

That aside, people should ask themselves if the angry men on those sites are not involved in relationships precisely because they are so disagreeable. If they've never gotten into an intimate relationship or haven't been in one recently, it could be that potential dates/mates were put off by what they at least perceived as hostility.

To be clear, magneto, there are plenty of people in our society who won't see you as such a nasty person at all just because you're single!



Scipio
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29 Oct 2018, 6:27 pm

I agree with alex on this. Identifying yourself as any kind of loser is not healthy.

This is frankly a problem that has a solution, in all but the most extreme circumstances involving physical paralysis or some kind of tragic disfigurement. That solution is putting in the time and effort required to get your social skills and self care (physical fitness, style, etc.) on point. The world will not start spinning the other way to better accommodate you. Social skills are extremely important whether we like it or not and the best way to get what we want in life is to learn and practice them. "Incel" is not a designation given at birth. It is a lifestyle choice.

That said, instead of beating down anyone who currently identifies as an incel, I think it would be better for everyone, both the incels themselves and all the people they may eventually shoot, if an effort were made to help get incels on the right track to learning social skills and getting their social/romantic lives under control.

Even in cases of physical disfigurement and deformity, one is not necessarily destined to be an incel as long as they are not paralyzed from the neck down. Take Nick Vujicic for example. He is happily married with 4 kids.

Just my opinion.



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29 Oct 2018, 6:49 pm

AspE wrote:
No one objects to the celibacy part, just the involuntary part. No one else is to blame for your decision. No one owes you sex.

Involuntarily means not by your choice
Stop making it into a bad word.



AspE
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29 Oct 2018, 8:57 pm

sly279 wrote:
AspE wrote:
No one objects to the celibacy part, just the involuntary part. No one else is to blame for your decision. No one owes you sex.

Involuntarily means not by your choice
Stop making it into a bad word.

That's not celibacy. It's rather a sexually active being who has difficulty finding a partner.