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SilverProteus
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05 Aug 2007, 7:49 pm

Yeah, the unwritten rules of society are complicated. You have to observe and write them down for future reference.

I've had a few problems with teachers in the past because of the so-called 'pecking order'. Some, for some reason I don't know, actually believe they're better than you, just because they're your teacher. They demand your respect, expect it and will give you a hard time if you don't respect them.

I think people should be earning respect, not demanding it. And I don't even set my standards that high! :roll:


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V001
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11 Aug 2007, 11:41 am

This talking of staus reminders me. Lots of human who try to say we are not Animals are the ones who want to be treated like one ie having a leader of the pack in wolf terms. And that they can be leaders or follwers only or in more direct terms lower or higher and if lower feel that is their place and if higher that is thier place. Silly humans need to growup and past that simple minded trap 8O



Greentea
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11 Aug 2007, 12:37 pm

so, so true V001 ! !!



shopaholic
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28 Aug 2007, 1:22 pm

Surely these people only have power because others treat them as having power?

I choose not to. If they don't like it, that's their problem, not mine.

As others have posted, I give respect to those who have earned it, not those who demand it from me.



nomessiah
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29 Aug 2007, 11:28 pm

Izaak wrote:
An interesting phenomenon that I have found is that if you don't asskiss and you get called on it, don't apologise and grovel. For some reason people then seem to think that you are going to be the next leader of the group and they start kissing your arse. It can be downright annoying if you just want to be left alone to do your work.


That's apparently what NTs refer to as "confidence". We call it "competence". It's probably just a pathological speech issue on one of our parts.



pi_woman
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02 Sep 2007, 6:05 pm

This has gotten me into more trouble at work than any other AS traits. Particularly with some narrow-minded, insecure, old farts crony of a boss who thinks he's finally a big shot now that he's been promoted to management, and feels entitled to be treated the way he resentfully treated his "superiors" when he was new. With no understanding of, or respect for, different perspectives. Which makes me wonder exactly what "qualifications" got him a managerial job in the first place.

I just don't "get it" when it comes to inter-office politics. I've always treated people based on their behavior with no consideration for (or, at times, awareness of) social hierarchy.



RedHanrahan
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09 Sep 2007, 4:29 pm

Thanx everyone, I thought I was just a screwup but at least if I am I am not alone, lol.

I have never understood the ladder either, and I have certainly never been able to accept what I see as injustices borne from it.
At school I was friendless for the most part but I would tend to have one person in each of several different hierarchies that I had made some connection with, but because I never adhered to the conventions [usually because I was oblivious to them] I was always the freak the apologised to their friends for speaking to...
At work I always seem to end up in conflict with bosses and the 'climbers' - the ones who have their eye on advancement. My failure to integrate into my place on the ladder and my refusal to s**t on anyone they choose to place below me marks me out as a rebel, a troublemaker, but all along all I have wanted is a little peace and quiet, and injustices and petty games tend to interfere with that...
Now I am trying to learn the codes and reprogram myself to honour them however bizarre they seem.
peace j



Greentea
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09 Sep 2007, 11:52 pm

That's an accurate description of me and what I mean!


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LKL
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10 Sep 2007, 2:11 am

Me too.

Men may be labeled as 'confident,' but women get labeled as 'bitchy.'



ignisfatuus
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24 Feb 2008, 8:36 pm

My insouciant treatment of authority has been viewed as quaint or inappropriate, moreso the latter. Truth be told, it is much easier to just bend to convention than continually lock horns with those who expect deferment as befits their position. I guess this is part of developing an acceptable "social mask". Unfortunately, I tend to think in very black and white terms, and breaching certain beliefs within that mindset causes considerable mental turmoil.



Izaak
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25 Feb 2008, 9:55 am

The problem is, at least on my part, is that it's hard to bend to convention because when the specifics of the convention are unknown.

If you "bend" to the wrong convention, you'll probably be worse off than remaining aloof from the whole deal.



skeeterhawk
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25 Feb 2008, 1:38 pm

I have certainly found myself in this position, and I remain less than enthusiastic about working hard to change my behavior. The problem is the mix of ethics and social rules. I try to treat EVERYONE with respect and courtesy. This is how I understand the basic thrust of ethics. I am aware that people have repeatedly informed me that there is some sort of different behavior, different from bedrock respect and courtesy, that is expected around authority. I am largely clueless about what all this behavior is. I very clearly have no intuitive feel for it. Memorization has not worked well except in very limited interactions.

Beyond all that, this extra behavior set seems to be counter to the stated ethical structure of my society. I hear people say that they resent having to play the game and others who have stories of being emotionally hurt by this (not just autisitcs). Most of all I hear that we are all created equal and that we are all equally deserving of respect, peon and "authority person" alike. From Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Seuss, that message is everywhere.

So I have to wonder if these conflicting messages of the equality of all vs "yassuh, yassuh, you the man" affect others as much as they do me. I can try my best to be respectful, but I have a really hard time with finding the energy to play power politics. It's a double whammy of ethics and autism!

Anybody else feel this way?



sartresue
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25 Mar 2008, 4:35 pm

Greentea wrote:
This may sound too weird but I didn't know till recently that you're supposed to behave differently towards someone depending if they're in a position of power in relation to you or not. Eg: if a person is highly influential in a group and you're not, you don't express an opinion that goes against their beliefs.

People were usually appalled at my lack of "sensitivity" in this respect, automatically thinking I was "rebellious" rather than unaware.

Has anyone else here experienced something like this?



The power of certain people topic

Hello, Greentea, I just discovered this classic post and I just experienced this at work. I was trying to get my brain around this power imbalance thing and then I read what you have to say and what the other posters thought. Thanks. :)


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30 Mar 2008, 3:21 am

I didn't even known this existed. :(

I've cut relationships that were unfair; I just don't ackowledge these things.
If I think some truth about a social leader cannot be said - then I don't say anything about anyone in the group. . . and if it gets too annoying, then again, I leave. . .

Now I remember my dad telling me about this when I was in primary school (and getting into fights everyday) - I wouldn't accept it as it's ridiculously unfair. . .

If then people only didn't act surprised or complained when they get shot - but instead they are like "How can someone do this to us?! We are honest educated people!".
They are all scum!! !! !



FutureCatLady
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01 Apr 2008, 1:36 am

This is wild. Since I started my new job a year ago, I've found myself being a little too vocal and forceful with people of higher rank - without realizing I'm doing it until it's done.
I embarassed myself one day when I emailed a person of similar rank to myself for information. He wouldn't give it to me, but instead, another person got into the conversation.
We had a multi-email tug of war going in which we debated procedure. I was wondering, "Who IS this guy and why is he debating me as if I don't know what I'm doing???" Then he said something that made me realize we were talking about two different procedures. THEN I took the time to read his signature and found out he was the facility General Manager. LOL!

I apologized for the misunderstanding. My manager was cool about it (he'd been copied on all of it, too.LOL)
I guess that's how I demonstrated that I'm not easily pushed around. I will push back. It's hard for me to let go of an issue sometimes - which drives ME crazy, too.

I've been called "defensive" by other employers. I hate that term. But hey, if I feel unfairly challenged, I'll react. I'm ALWAYS tactful, tho.
I try to keep it professional. But don't pull rank on me when it's not needed.
I've found a lot of managers aren't qualified for their jobs.
Respect me and I'll respect you.


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Warsie
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04 Apr 2008, 8:18 pm

About the Social Hierarchy....why not overlook peoples gossip? Or simply ask people in who are the 'popular' people? I did it and it worked for me (asking a person I sufficently trusted)

EDIT: thx for reminding me why those 'radical left' ideas are right. They destroy this BS social ladder/stratification


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