Politicians: We are being Ruled by Professional Talkers.

Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 

Pyromanic
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 52
Location: My computer chair, USA

23 Nov 2018, 4:42 am

So I just had this thought the other day- what IS a politician, truly? So they're the people that write our laws, but how does one become a politician? Why... by campaigning, of course. BUT..... what is campaigning? It's talking, plain and simple. It's going around the country saying all this stuff that you're absolutely GOING to do on no uncertain terms. I think perhaps before we consider the plausibility of a policy, perhaps we also need to consider how we're even going to pass it to begin with. For a person running for office going around saying they're GOING to do this and that and this and that, they're in a sense telling something that could easily be a lie and- no surprise, it often is a lie. Then again, saying "I'm going to try to do x action." probably looks worse politically to say even though it's the more honest thing to say.

And then you have to consider the type of people that A. would even want to be a politician or B. would be able to successfully run for office. These people are often more on the social side, I don't see people on the STEM side of things successfully running for office, or even running at all because scientists and engineers typically are comfortable with their job and enjoy it so they do not feel the need to run for politics. They're all either something of a more liberal arts/social major, or they never even had a career and are just politicians just to be politicians. Oftentimes they'll win off their social skills alone, and the truth is that the type of people that often go into STEM fields often struggle socially but are good at logic, math, and problem solving. In other words, people that claim they are going to do things every couple years then kick back and get their salary while tenth-assing even the beginnings of what they claimed they were going to do.

The issue lies in that the actual problem solvers who might actually have a plan for what they would do and how they would do it are too often drowned out by those who would rather run for office on a platform of emotional and bombastic hype only to massively underwhelm their base once they get in. The people who lead our country and control our very lives are incompetent professional talkers who are just like us and in many cases, are probably less competent and qualified to be a leader. But, that's the thing with democracy- only the ones who can woo the masses with their social charisma are able to win. So you end up with a nation ran by incompetent hacks. My conclusion is that America would probably be better off without any politicians at all, because if the people were given more freedom they'd surely do much more with it than these professional talkers are doing with our votes.


_________________
My life is a dramatic MTV power ballad from the 80's.


envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,023
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria

23 Nov 2018, 4:56 am

I guess you're right to an extent. Lots of them talk the talk but don't do much once elected. Scientists and other field specialists would do a better job of managing the country.

Certainly there are people outside the political arena who would be a more competent and deserving US president. Indeed many countries deserve a worthier leader.


_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?


my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/


Pyromanic
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 52
Location: My computer chair, USA

24 Nov 2018, 3:18 am

I actually believe Trump to be pretty decent in terms of talking the talk, he's done more than a lot with as much as he said he'd do. No wall which isn't a surprise, but he did follow through with the trade policies, and actual immigration enforcement did increase under him. He really did cut taxes, repealing Obamacare almost happened but Mccain betrayed his party out of spite for Trump. He managed to get a lot of bipartisan stuff signed too, and did cut a lot of regulation. Overall I'd say he's not as bad as career politicians with doing what he says, the problem is he's held back by other career politicians below him in congress that promise the same things but don't really help much. There was so much he could have gotten done if the Republicans had been more agreeable, but now it's kind of too late for any of it because of the midterms.


_________________
My life is a dramatic MTV power ballad from the 80's.


techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 19,860
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

24 Nov 2018, 8:59 am

I think the social influence markets of politics and economics both need to be invaded by an unstoppable wave of empirical measurement of the sort that doesn't allow for these sorts of convolutions and artful reality-distorting techniques. Right now we don't very good anchors and part of what's rending the cultural fabric is that there's such a bad signal to noise ratio in the media that people are left to take things in faith, ie. fall back on what they'd prefer to believe.

There are two kinds of lies politicians are telling - the first is straight-forward outright lying, ie. offering things they have no intention of doing. The second is them offering things that no one can do, ie. things that no one person - even the president - can have control over and selling it to their base as if they can make it happen - for the sake of energizing the vote. It's a big problem that most people can't tell the difference between the two or worse, want to be lied to.

This is where I think the world of politics and media needs a James Randi, or several James Randi's, and it seems like the closest thing I can think of to that (and still trying to get their footing) are people like the Weinstein brothers and Sam Harris. I'm not sure what will emerge or how but I get the impression that eventually the data processing technology will be there to get under this sort of thing and force transparency. Maybe soon enough we'll have more mathematicians jump in the ring as well who make a game of publicly shaming baked statistics.


_________________
What doesn't kill me makes me stranger.


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,298

24 Nov 2018, 10:53 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MLIkG6d32U

Politicians are Elected to Influence Change to the Will of Those Folks Who Elect the Politicians;

So, in other Words, Trump is not the Problem so much as the Will of those Folks who continue to Support him.

Politics is all about Influence. Human Beings at core are not Rational as Science continues to illustrate as the
Neo-Cortex is Servant to the Limbic System; even for 'those' who 'think' they are 'Smarter' than their Emotions.

Point in Case, the Folks on this Internet Site who insist they are so rational but lead off most every Conversation
with some kind of Personal Attack that is entirely derivative of "Little Person" Syndrome; in other words, an
Emptiness inside seeking some kind of oneupmanship to Derive a little Shot of Serotonin to 'feel' up what
'Fills' Empty inside.

People who are 'Feeled' up inside, is the "Typical Politician's" Worst Nightmare for they are the ones who
are least likely to fall to an Emotional Charged Promise to Lift them up, when their Natural State of Being is
Already Filled up; which means there is nothing the Politician has to offer them they don't already have now.
This is Typical Used Car Sales Lot Politics; the Folks on the Bottom of Maslow's Pyramid come in Desperate now
For Transportation; As an Easy Mark for the Trump Sales Manager; And Used Car Sales Lot Trump Sales Person;
And Yes, the Financial Manager with a Trump Suit on too, now; to take advantage of General Human Weaknesses.

My Mama Loved me; i'm filled up with Love, Still; so, I am no Mark for a Politician or someone with
'Little Man' and or 'Little Woman Syndrome'; who 'thinks' they can Bring me Down or Sell me a Lemon
With an 'Orange Suit' on.

Sadly, not everyone is Filled up with Love; Sadly, not everyone is Financially Independent; Sadly, not
Everyone is Self Actualized; And Sadly not Everyone Enjoys Agape Love for all of Nature; Additionally, with
Loads of Empathy, Sympathy, Compassion; and enough Cognitive Empathy to See Plain as Day how Tortured
of A Soul A Trump Politician or otherwise Trump Human Being is; obviously, Shipped off to Military School with
A Bunch of Dudes; and Probably bullied for being rather Effete as that still comes through Loud and Clear through
Trump's no Different than the 'Jordan Peterson Meme'; Really Big Hips and Doesn't exercise; sure, go 'figure' that out.

Anyway, Politicians; Many of the Most 'Famous' Politicians came from and still come from a place of Human
Darkness; Just Read a Biography of the Presidents; including the Most Famous President's and that comes
through Crystal Clear that their Lust For Power comes from a Place of Existential Dark Angst and Emptiness.

Obama was about the Closest President to someone with actual Self-Esteem as truly the only one lately who
isn't seriously Character Flawed, in some way. In Fact, an outlier for sure for a Politician at the Top who
was/is actually Self-Actualized no Matter what His Actual Physical Strength; for He was/is Obviously A
Real Man'; Self-Assured, who no one could take down to their smaller size. Sure; The other side Tried
But He Never Cried Uncle or Wet His Pants or Set His Hair on Fire Orange/Blonde like the Little Dude in
Charge now.

Little Dudes appeal to 'Little Dudes'
as that applies and or to Women too.

We have a lot of 'little Dudes' in this Country
now who live at the Bottom of Maslow's Pyramid;
and when it comes to 'Little Dudes; size matters not;
as Yoda's/Obama's Still Tower over Trump's no matter How Much Trump's Exaggerate.

Meanwhile; the 'World is on Fire'; and 'Little Dudes' are worried all about Big Transexual Folks
who aren't afraid to be who they are inside, Serving in the Military; as Big Folks Still actually Do;
Never Complaining about "Temporary Bone Spurs" or about a "Bad Hair Day in the Rain"; if it wasn't
So Dangerous for the Human Species; the Whole "Entired" Scenario would be Straight of "Mad Magazine"
and
it is.
Regulate Your own Emotions;
Integrate your own Senses Now;
Yeah, 'Baby'; Tower Over Any 'Trump' now.
And Yes, Sure; Do The Math too on your own.

Oh yeah; Go Figure, too; Popes/Politicians Have even Convinced
Some Folks as Paleontologists Suggest, Still that A Five Foot or one
or so Little Brown Dude with Shortly Cropped Hair, Around 106 Lbs; not Much Bigger
Than Yoda with His Philosophy too; Now Looks Just Like 'Conchita'; And ironically, is God's Only 'Son'. It's True;
People at the Bottom off the Food Chain will Take the Hook, Bait, and Sinker while 'Those' 'in Charge' Laugh AT them, too,
while
They
continue
to sink
even
lower;
Sadly as is Reality Still.

The Politics of the Governmental
Process; the Constitution, Developed
by Real Forefathers Worth their Title as Men Chiseled on Granite Mountain Stone
Are All that/who separate Us from Trump/Pope Supported And Driven Politics, now.


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Pyromanic
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 52
Location: My computer chair, USA

24 Nov 2018, 11:00 am

They're all used car salesman, is my point. You don't really have to even be qualified to become a politician. Look at Ocasio Cortez in New York- that's a person who is going to be running our country and yet she had no experience whatsoever, even in the professional field. Her entire platform is extremely emotionally charged arguments and things that she'll never get done and she knows it yet, she talks about these things as if they are absolute.


_________________
My life is a dramatic MTV power ballad from the 80's.


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,298

24 Nov 2018, 11:37 am

Actually, we have a Much Bigger Problem Than
Politics as it stands still is Directly Related to, too.

Humans are not evolved to Live Peacefully with more than about 150 to 200
Sets of Eyes they are well Acquainted with. Humans Live in Balance in Nature when
they live as Evolved as Most Animals do until they get out Balance and the Herd is culled
Naturally as such.

Human Culture Sets Humans apart from all other Animals ranging from Language to Nuclear Bombs;
And a dream of Escaping the Planet to A Place we are not evolved to Live on after we screw this one up.

In this way, Human alone is not the Virus but Culture is. It is self evident by the Way we Rule Ourselves
at the Top that our Entire Process is a Best Bet Endeavor Against the Truly Natural Insanity we continue
to impose on the Rest of the Environment. But hey; We are driven by what Feels Good Most; So, we continue to
Add Layers and Layers of Icing on a "MacArthur's Park" (reference to a 70's Disco Song by Donna Summer) that
is Getting So Heavy It is Smothering the Cake of Nature in Balance that is the Home we continue to Depend on now.

The Answer is the Same as it is for all the other Animals; we get balanced with the Rest of Nature Now or we go away; So, How Smart is Human;
Not Very
Smart
so far
at ALL;
ALL stuff considered.

An only hope really is if enough
Folks hold hands together again in Balance with Nature.
The Fact that we do have the Ability to do that Globally now is really an only hope in synergy
of what may still be to come; on just how much Folks appreciate the Gift of Human Life now; and for those still to come.

Meanwhile; I'm Enjoying Every Second of Life to the Max; for this Country is still Free enough for That For Those Folks Who are Truly Free; And Actually Do Something With that Freedom to Make Some Kind of Real Difference in the World Now.

I don't have any Living Children and my Wife and i have a Few Decades left of Potential Good Health; And Heaven on Earth That Is Real Is A Tiny Sliver of what any Species of Life anywhere in the Universe has Likely experienced as an Existence of
Relative Free Will; in Enjoying all the Colors of Life and the Dark that Brings Light too. These are Still the Best of
Days for Some Folks who continue to Enjoy a "Macarthur's Park" that still thrives; smiles, like my Back Yard of
Living Beauty Beyond
Measure
of Money
And A
Modest
Paid-
off home.
A First Step in Saving the
Human Species is appreciating the Gift of Life At ALL, now; JusT NoW;
as 'they' (me) say(s); Change Starts Best With The Happy Satisfied Still Striving Version of "me"..;)

A Greatest Challenge of Life is Being a Successful Politician of one's Inner Life. After that; Willfully Relatively
speaKing; the Rest of Life IS A Piece of Cake As LonG as one Doesn't Gorge Themselves on Frosting; With SMiLes..:)


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


la_fenkis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,149
Location: Inside

24 Nov 2018, 3:26 pm

Thank you for your words, aghogday.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,991
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

25 Nov 2018, 12:19 am

But that's been the case since at least as far back as the ancient Greeks. Oratory was recognized as a necessary skill for politicians. Politicians have always been bullshit artists.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,298

25 Nov 2018, 12:46 am

la_fenkis wrote:
Thank you for your words, aghogday.


SMiLes; You are Very Welcome, My Friend..:)


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,953
Location: USA

25 Nov 2018, 1:19 am

The talkers will likely appeal to emotions, while STEM types will likely appear to logic.


_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.


shlaifu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2014
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 950

27 Nov 2018, 1:40 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
But that's been the case since at least as far back as the ancient Greeks. Oratory was recognized as a necessary skill for politicians. Politicians have always been bullshit artists.

And then they realized their mistake, banned the best speakers from running and intrioduced a lottery instead of a vote.
Yes, that's true.

Also: well... If only we were actually governed by elected politicians. Liberalism was always uneasy with democracy (as were a lot of Greeks, but you had to give those people something to make them join the navy).
Hobbes, Mill, Hayek... They all saw a democratic vote as a means to keep the people happy, while the actual ruling should be a rule of law, negotiated by lawyers and technocrats.
Hayek said that democracy naturally tends towards socialism, and the one who promises the biggest piece of bacon to the voters will win - he saw it as inevitable that laws would have to be put in place that make it impossible for that bacon to be taken from capital-owning investors.
And indeed, some former colonies nationalized foreign owned facilities, scaring off further foreign investors for a generation - until they joined the international legal framework that ensured the rights of capital.

Plato, too, thought democracy was a bad idea... Admittedly, he lived after the Greeks had lost the war against the Spartan-Persian coalition, - an event he attributed to the failure of democracy and general decline of civilization. He was an aristocrat.

Aristotle liked democracy - but by that, he meant democracy only for men who were wealthy and had nothing else to do. Certainly not for women or slaves.


_________________
I can read facial expressions. I did the test.


Tollorin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,064
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada

27 Nov 2018, 4:09 pm

Pyromanic wrote:
They're all used car salesman, is my point. You don't really have to even be qualified to become a politician. Look at Ocasio Cortez in New York- that's a person who is going to be running our country and yet she had no experience whatsoever, even in the professional field. Her entire platform is extremely emotionally charged arguments and things that she'll never get done and she knows it yet, she talks about these things as if they are absolute.

What you say apply very well to Trump, even though you praised him earlier.

Also, first time I heard of Ocasio Cortez, but as far as I can read on her Wikipedia page, while she obviously won't be able to go through some of her intentions, she got some rather sensible positions.

I would say, that it seem, your words fit more toward Trump.