Is the Red Pill Really So Bad?

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A lot of people here have utter contempt for RedPill philosophy, and yet much of the advice handed out to lonely guys is parallel with what I've seen of the RedPill. These concepts of confidence, lifting weights to become more attractive, being emotionally independent of others, not yearning for relationships, relationships as transactions - these ideas are frequently mentioned here and the RedPill just builds upon them. Frankly, my experience on this very forum has made RedPill more compelling to me when I used to dismiss it as rubbish.

So what exactly do people have against it, especially the same members here who seem to follow its principles to a lesser degree?

Yes, if the advice is from RP = omg so bad, so evil.

If the same advice is not from RP = so good, so down to earth.



A good example of a totally RP-like thread is the recent “Equal value in relationships” thread; you see... many users there are agreeing with this thread even by those who claim to be anti RP like Fnord, XFiles, Piobaire, Gallia (Yes I am naming them).... ; but the OP content is 100% RP philosophy.

Could you explain what you mean by "RedPill"?

I don't think all the advice on RP is bad but I still dislike many of the threads on RP.

Not because you won't get laid if you follow the advice. That may work.

I dislike some of the opinions I've seen there quite often, some of them not directly related to 'how to improve yourself' or 'how to get laid'.
For example quite a few people there think that marital rape doesn't exist. Your wife (if you have one) owes you sex whenever you want, however you want and it should not be forbidden to force her to have sex with you whenever you want, however you want.
Granted, that's not what every person on RP thinks, but quite a few promote such opinions. (Typically no one argues against it, but that may be because RP is supposed to be amoral and moral arguments are forbidden)

Last edited by NorthWind on 11 Dec 2018, 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

It seems so, which is not surprising given that those are people advocating for doing relationships the NT way, and RP is just a "rule-book" of how NT courtship works.

Of course. That's part of the transaction model that expects sex to be delivered on request because it was negotiated (at least implicitly) during dating, and so wife must continue to deliver it or violate the transaction model.

A belief that we are all very unique and special.

There are good individual pieces of advice (as with anything--even the Nazis recognized the harmful effects of smoking), but a lot of Red Pill guys come off as very angry and defensive, rather than balanced, secure, and open-minded. I'm not sure they really believe in their whole Red Pill or MGTOW philosophy as much as they'd like, it's just a good defense against whatever pain they're feeling.

Also, a lot of it is based on projecting bad relationship experience with certain females (who often fit the narcissist or borderline criteria) onto all women. These bad partners (and they are both men and women) are predatory. You know, kind of like a business. So it's funny when the Red Pill or MGTOW guys take a very material, business-minded view of relationships to defend themselves.

Like with any group or "movement," you get a few decent insights, a lot of catchy sloganeering, and tons of lazy thinking. People would be happier examining themselves, and defining relationships for themselves--you know, being individuals.

I also don't think anyone can truly be emotionally independent. And that's not a bad thing.

I think the name they've come up with for it is silly, but I can't say I disagree with the concepts, or at least those that you've cited in this post. I think getting down to the bare nuts and bolts of life, examining why other people might be successful while you're not and doing things to boost your chances of being successful are positive things. Unpacking where you're going wrong, where others are going right, what to do to improve and looking at things in a purely logical framework demistifies love and dating imo. It's not this intangible thing that we can't put our finger on. There are (probably quantifiable) reasons why some people can get relationships with ease and others fail to ever get a single relationship, and understanding these reasons helps us change our potential outcome, if we do things to change it, but as always that's easier said than done.

I had to look it up; Inside Red Pill, The Weird New Cult For Men Who Don't Understand Women, or, as the author put it more succinctly, 'malevolent sexism'.
Ick. Between this and the post on Adam Lanza, I feel like I need a bath, and to wash my brain out with soap.

So what would you prescribe then for lonely men who don't understand women and want a relationship?

There is no pill to prescribe, neither red nor blue.
In general, there is no pill to cure all of one's problems.
And there is definitely no one-size-fits-all solution. There can be some general advice but it's neither universal nor comprehensive. Relationships are formed by individuals so they need individual approach.

But by relationship do you mean sex or bond? It would be hard to form a bond following the RP advice.

You feel very real needs for acceptance, affection, companionship, belongingness; so do others, and their needs are just as valid as yours. You know the suffering of unmet needs; so do others, and their suffering is just as valid as yours. Women have additional concerns which men in general never have to deal with; 40% less upper body strength, one in four will be physically assaulted, one in 5 raped. At any given time they earn 20% less than men; over their lifetime 50% less, and they're much more likely to live in poverty in old age. "Glass ceilings" and nder-representation in management, academia, and elected office; chauvinism, misogyny, sexual harassment (yeah; the notion that males suffer institutional discrimination in a demonstrably patriarchal society is idiotic in the extreme). Cost and access to reproductive services, pregnancy, childbirth, and the culturally imposed gender-role onus of housekeeping and child rearing in addition to working their ass off trying to earn a living. Just because I'm not subject to a daily dose of any of that doesn't mean that these aren't perfectly valid concerns, too. I recognize and respect their humanity; I empathize with them.
All human behavior is goal-directed, including relationships. Humans are social animals, and we form relationships in order to get our needs met. If I genuinely care for someone, I want them to feel fulfilled; I genuinely want their needs to be met and their wants satisfied; I want them to be happy; I feel compassion for them. To that end I cultivate the requisite character traits and skillsets and invest the time, attention, and effort necessary to do just that; I operationalize compassion into action; as a verb, not just a noun. In myriad ways both large and small, I'm offering to meet her perfectly legitimate needs and alleviate her perfectly legitimate suffering; I'm offering her assistance and support to create a space where she can grow and become who she has always wanted to be. In a healthy mutual relationship, my mate is simultaneously doing the same thing, in her own way with her own unique skillsets. When we both have this to offer each other, within the resultant synergy we both are more fulfilled, and we both suffer less.

This is light years different from cultivating predatory tactics in an attempt to manipulate someone into allowing me to f**k them, essentially using their body to masturbate as if they're nothing more than a sex toy made of meat, à la "Red Pill" sociopathy.

Last edited by Piobaire on 11 Dec 2018, 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

You really ARE unique and special ... just like everyone else.

Uhh ... maybe they could become members of a social website dedicated to autistic spectrum disorders and start multiple threads on how they can't get dates because women are only attracted to scumbags?

Yes, that was sarcasm.

So the trick with a relationship is to find another unique and special person to form an unique and special bond. Just as many other people do.