Can an NT explain what it’s like to read face expressions?

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Is there ALWAYS an expression on someone’s face? Do you ever have trouble figuring out what the expression is? What do you think about people who always have a blank expression?

I'm not NT (unfortunately), but I can answer that. Facial expressions don't give you 100% information. It is usually backed up by body language and tone of voice too. But if a person is looking frustrated, I can feel that emotion. But people don't have a facial expression every second, especially if they're alone. I get funny stares if I display emotion in my facial expressions, if I'm in public by myself.

I'm better at reading tone of voice than facial expressions, but I don't fail to read facial expressions.

Wonderful response, Joe. I think it should also be said that it is necessary to look at faces in order to read them, and, second point, many people deliberately manipulate their face muscles in order to convey certain things; also, there are cultural difference in the way people us their face muscles and body movement to convey information, and it is necessary to learn to read this second language. If a person who does not previously know this face/body language makes an effort to learn how to read it and with your own face and body speak second language, I predict you will receive immense personal satisfaction from doing so.

(edited to add; whoops, sorry; I am not an NT.)

Op, even though I am not a so-called NT, is it okay to continue? I will start a thread on this subject in the future, maybe, or write here, if it is okay.

This is one possible way it works; which is not exact but kind of a hypothesis or sketch, and I did not get this idea myself but from an amazing, for me life changing article, I read once that was in a journal I found in a bookstore free box.. More about that later. For different reasons a child may have difficulty making eye contact. For instance I was slapped in the face a lot as a young child and also I was sun blind, so could not see anything much outside. There was no way I could read people's faces, plus I do not even think my parents were into it. Then I started focusing on myself more internally, probably because it felt safe, so did not develop that skill as much as some other people. Also I was kind of rewarded by my parents by being an internal kind of person. Damn sad.

Let me give another example from the other end of the stick: the African American culture--not speaking of race here, but a particular culture--, developed all kinds of very subtle use of body language and facial expression as a survival technique. It is amazing what can be convey with the human face and body, and there was a powerful benefit for people who were enslaved to learn to do that.

Another example is musicians. They know certain things and tune into each other a certain way when they are playing. I have seen some dumb psychological theories and how the music tunes them in psychically in some way. Well I used to be an amateur jazz salsa musician and spent thousands of hour jamming, and I can tell you right now that all of is based on picking up certain cues, either from body movements from the other musicians and/or knowing and understanding the complexity of various riffs (melody lines and rhythmic sequences). All of it is learned, but to a person watching from the outside it may appear as if they are communicating by magic.

How to learn something new? Granted, a person has to be interested in doing so. My guess is that interpreting various facial expressions is something anyone not really skilled at doing so or even clueless about it could begin to do IF they become interested. I didn't start learning it until I was in my mid thirties and now I am an expert.

Also, it should be mentioned that many people are not that good at reading facial expressions, not just (some) people who are autistic.

There were never many (self-reported) NTs here to begin with. Most who came were parents of children with Autism or spouses of someone with Asperger's. They were looking for answers to their own questions. A few were kind enough to get involved in the forums and give their NT perspective to us.

Of late, it seems like there are even less of these NTs around.

I do not know who is actually here or who what so and so says he or she is is what they actually are. Before when I was here, by my assessment, some people (or at least one) who probably had a personality disorder was making very provocative threads. Some people are obviously recognizable as autistic, but I think a lot of psychologists interested in autism are probably reading here, and character playing is kind of in vogue. Too bad, as I am very much against it for several reasons.

Anyway, back to the ranch: I do not think the average NT can necessarily explain what it's like to read facial expressions, as it is already kind of automatically factored into their way of processing; they could tell you it feels good:-); however a person who consciously learned to do so as an adult and is still learning about it could maybe be quite articulate on this subject. One thing I do know is that it is interesting and fun. Facial muscle communication, and also body communication, can give an added depth and dimension to social experience, and also can even help a person physically survive, such as in a time of danger. I may be wrong, but I think most anybody can learn it. People with downs syndrome can even learn it. The whole subject is damn fascinating and a fruitful field to hoe. You would have to be around people to learn it, though I think it is possible to pick up some of it from watching t.v. More on that later.

^^You're saying the site is infiltrated by NT psychologists posing as Aspies? Possibly. I think there are a lot more lurkers than active participants.

With facial expressions - I don't think the average NT can really explain it. A lot of it comes naturally, they don't think about it, and it's beyond the scope of explaining in words. That's the whole point of intuition.

I think many of us have delayed intuition. We may pick up on things intuitively on a delay and not know how to process (or what to make of) said feelings...especially in a potentially dangerous situation, sadly.

I might be wrong in saying this but I think we can recognize some facial expressions. Things like crying, smiling, or laughing are obvious and we can determine their origin based on conversational context.

Truly difficult facial expressions usually have less of a context to rely on and involve more complex interactions. Its hard to recognize when someone is grieving, depressed, manipulating, flirting, or joking because these are not as obvious as crying or laughing and are often designed to be subliminal.

I suppose a doctor would put me in an NT category, I'm certainly not bragging about it . But I can answer your question. It is seeing what they are feeling , I wouldn't say reading because I don't see words, like someone said it is a combo of things , tone of voice,enunciation,body stance and movement and of course the appendages all go into it but i will just say what i can see from facial expressions alone.

OK, first of all if you study facial expressions you can see if a person is good,bad,telling a lie and all kinds of stuff but it is just our subconscious that picks it up UNLESS you study it .I have just begun to do that and it is fascinating. Great author if you are interested in the subject is a retired FBI agent JOE NAVARRO and he has written a lot on the subject and all kinds of things to help us protect ourselves. He is great writer and I feel a truly wonderful human being. ok With that being said It is extremely hard to try and fake emotions with your face. Because we don't normally even know we are giving any meaning out unless we are lying or trying to trick someone but i will just talk about a regular honest person (can be hard to find these days),
but to explain what it is like , it is something i just know when I see it. i know a smile and what kind it is (can be happy , a little embarrassed, lots of dif smiles) like say ....a color you know blue when you see it ..you don't think about you just know its blue that's how I know facial expressions ...and like you can tell it is dark blue or light blue i can tell what kind of smile it is or frown or anger any of them ...sometimes I may need to ponder a little if it is not one i'm familiar with or a person im not familiar with ....maybe like you may wonder is that violet color or lavender? If I can think of a better example I will write more about it , but since we are not in chat and i wont get a question right away this is as good as I can think of off the top of my head. I feel like I should say more but i don't know without questions , I hope I helped some. OH and the smileys do it pretty good if you know a smiley w/o having to hold the curser over it you could seeing it in people as well , i think.

One suggestion to the op is to take the bull by the horns and try to make some facial expressions. Even when you are alone. The subtle (and overt) muscle movement possibilities of the human face are amazing.

It's all about context.

There is a phenomenon in film editing called the Kuleshov Effect, where if you take two shots of a person with a neutral expression, then you can alter how the viewer perceives what the person is feeling/thinking by inserting a shot in between the two neutral expressions which changes the context of the scene. Even though the person has a neutral expression and is not actually thinking about anything, the viewer believes that there is thought and emotion.

An example:

I would like to say as well, when you study it you will learn it is an exact science. Anyone guessing does not know what he is doing and should not be saying anything if he/she does not know and are putting their own perception in or adding anything at all except what they are seeing happening on the face they will not get a read and they have no idea of what they are saying.
It IS FASCINATING ...the muscles that get used , we do not even know we are doing it . So we can be read perfectly and exact because only certain muscles will be used in a combination that makes up the same for everyone. All of the muscles have names and we have plenty in our face.....so , disdain or whatever will have a combination , that will use the muscles in a certain way and that exact combo will be the same for everyone . It is really exciting , i think . Because there is nothing left to guess. It is all solid actual information that cannot be twisted or bent to suit any one who may want to be dishonest. If anything is recorded and then altered , or changed in anyway it is dishonest and will not be a true read. its is amazing. Because it is an exact science. Modified in any way is not honest.

I feel empathy for happiness and unhappiness if doing it. But I get cognitive a lot more emotional stuff. I get beside their feelings a lot of the character and whether they are honest or dishonest and whether I can trust them. I even saw people being islamic who didn't looked that way. I saw the dishonest way they were towards me and that they thought I wouldn't recognize it. I get if people are hateful towards other people. NTs can't really fool me once I'm looking in their eyes.
For this it's mostly true that

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I am as I am. Life has to be an adventure!

I should qualify that in my previous responses I was more talking about reading intentional signaling done as a social art/ deliberate communication device (so the person making the facial movements is consciously aware of what he is intending to convey) rather than simple natural facial expressions that just come over a person's face, like happiness, insecurity or anger, but admittedly these can in some ways overlap a little. An example of intentional signaling is the slightly raised eyebrows to indicate skepticism about what another person is saying, but Usually this would be indicated to another person or people also present; it could also be meant to convey skepticism directly to the person who is speaking, BUT, and this is where it gets good:-)-- eyebrow raising, meaning both eyebrows raised WAY up is a territorial tactic used by one ape to another to express or vie for dominance. In contemporary society this gesture would be viewed as uncool by many if not most in that it is so overt, really crude. My bf who is autistic, also, used to do it a lot till I told it was a monkey dominance tactic, really lame, and after I told him two or three times, he stopped. Another use of the slightly raised eyebrow, could be one or both eyebrows raised only slightly, (whereas to indicate skepticism is only one eyebrow), is to indicate that the other person thinks/feels he is big stuff, important and superior (when he obviously isn't), so raising the eyebrow in this way about another person is derogatory. This social gesture is very common, especially among certain groups of people in the US. If you think about it, though, it still is kind of an indication of vying for territory or social power, as the person who is indicating the other person is puffed up is on a subtle level actually implying that he, himself is superior. Of course when you read about it, it sounds really contrived, but in the flow of actual social interaction, it is like poetry or at least prose in motion and always conveys some kind of meaning.