What is Asperger’s Syndrome?

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Hello everybody.

Help required to get my head around the way people talk about ‘Asperger’s Syndrome’ and similar phenomena.

When I do an internet search on “what is Asperger’s Syndrome?” (‘AS’) I learn that it is (see Wikipedia article titled “Asperger syndrome”) “a developmental disorder characterised by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviour and interests.”

Examples of characteristics of AS are (see article on “National Autistic Society” website titled “What is Asperger syndrome?”): “often prefer to have a daily routine” and “have intense and highly-focused interests” and “may find certain background sounds ... distracting”. But surely these characteristics are too insubstantial to be a ‘disorder’. They are more like personality traits.

Some of the things said to be AS traits seem very normal to me. For example in a recent BBC website story (titled “The shop where it's OK to be different”) it says “People with autism need very clear, literal instructions and don’t like uncertainty, Angela says.” But isn’t that just normal? Don’t all people want their instructions to be clear and literal? Or are there some people who like their instructions to be vague and figurative?

Also, the trait of having “intense and highly-focused interests” would apply to pretty much all sportspeople, and yet nobody says they have AS.

It seems to me that diagnosis (formal or otherwise) of AS kind “lets people off the hook”. By which I mean the people doing the diagnosing. So someone is having problems with how they relate to others and we say to them: “oh, that’s just because you’ve got AS, your brain’s wired differently to the rest of us, mate.” And then we don’t have to do anything about it.

I suspect that saying some particular traits are part of a ‘disorder’ called AS is actually just a disguised value judgement about those traits. The way homosexuality used to be called a ‘disorder’.

(Sorry if what I am asking about here has been asked before. I don’t want to be boring but I do want to know what people think. Also sorry for absence of hyperlinks, as a new user I’m not allowed URLs!)

Thanks for reading,

Tinman

Hi and welcome. I am not sure exactly what you are saying or asking> Is it that that you are saying there is really no such thing as aspergers and that a false distinction is being made or that psychologists aren't categorizing it that well? Imo there is definitely such a thing as what is called aspergers (though it might be a valid to inquire into what specifically is the functional value of making such a distinction), and yes, I do not think psychologists and also people with autism are characterizing and understanding it that well. I will maybe write more later, but now I have to try to go back to sleep.

The kind of things you describe are indeed 'normal', but when it happens in Asperger's Syndrome (and other autisms), it is much more problematic.

For example, social interactions can be be very difficult. This can be distressing for both parties. If you manage to appear more normal, then the amount of effort you expend trying to be normal can be exhausting.

“may find certain background sounds ... distracting” --- People with AS who have hypersensitive hearing will notice these sorts of things a lot more. What might be virtually inaudible to some people might be annoyingly loud for someone with AS.

“People with autism need very clear, literal instructions and don’t like uncertainty, Angela says.” --- I think some people do indeed like to be vague. For example managers/supervisors. But many people will prefer clear instructions and certainty. I think the problem here is that people with AS are a lot more dependant on it. Generally, uncertainty about anything will cause an aspie a lot more anxiety than a normal person, and this can be quite distressing. The social issues also mean that instructions could easily be misinterpreted, and that is much more likely with aspies than standard humans.

All of these problems can easily lead to further problems. Difficulties with social situations can lead to loneliness, which can lead to depression. Constant uncertainly can lead to being clinically anxious.

I hope that helps explain it.

Not all Aspies are so lucky. It is common to find Aspies on this site who can't hold a job for any length of time. A lot of people are on the spectrum are unemployed.

The following is a list of traits of someone who has Asperger's Syndrome:

* shy and introvert
* feel isolated through most of their childhood and into adulthood.
* avoidance of social contact or events, and may experience heightened anxiety in social situations
* seek out time alone when overloaded by other people (need to decompress after stress)
* despite a desire for friends, difficulty in initiating or maintaining close relationships
* perceived to be cold-hearted and self-centered, unfriendly
* socially awkward (inability to socialize) (severe impairment in reciprocal social interaction)
* difficulty with nonverbal communication (hand gestures, facial expression, body language, eye-to-eye gaze)
* does not understand conventional social rules (have problems with following social conventions such as respecting another person's physical space, speaking loudly in quiet places) * does not understand the use of gestures or sarcasm (may not understand the subtleties of language, such as irony and humor)
* shows a lack of empathy (difficulty understanding others’ feelings, difficulty communicating feelings)
* unaware of others’ thoughts, feelings, desires, intentions or perceptions resulting in inadvertently appearing rude or inconsiderate
* may not understand the give-and-take nature of a conversation (they do not engage family members in true two-way conversation. Instead, there is limited or awkward turn-taking, and the natural "give and take" in the conversation is missing.)
* dislikes group conversations but effective in communicating in simple one-on-one conversations
* struggles to make eye contact
* seems unengaged in a conversation (seeming aloof, arrogant and uninterested)
* being “in their own world”
* formal style of speaking; often called “little professor,” verbose
* tendency to discuss self rather than others (one-sided conversations)
* average to superior intelligence, brilliant
* may be exceptionally skilled in math, computer science, and music.
* proficient in knowledge categories of information (highly-focused interests)
* a remarkable ability for intense focus is a common trait, becoming an expert in a single object or topic to the exclusion of all others
* the capacity to persevere in specific interests without being swayed by others' opinions
* activities usually involve collecting, numbering, or listing (often likes to collect categories of things)
* obsessed with order (an innate need to make order out of apparent chaos)
* frequently a target for bullying and teasing
* extremely hard-headed
* tenacity
* impulsive
* the ability to work independently * strong self discipline
* the recognition of patterns that may be missed by others,
* an original way of thinking. (outside the box) [or even better yet – What Box!]
* have rigid routines, may prefer sameness and have difficulties with transitions or changes
* repetitive behavior, such as repetitive eating habits, listening to the same song over and over again.
* likes to wear the same clothes for days/weeks
* inability to deceive or to understand deception
* righteousness, deeply compassionate and easily outraged by injustices (renowned for being honest, having a strong sense of social justice and keeping to the rules. They strongly believe in moral and ethical principles)
* trustworthy (my word is my bond)
* open book (when comfortable completely open and honest), blunt and direct
* fearless and risk taker - "seem to have no sense of guilt or of danger"
* face blind (prosopagnosia)
* prefers hands-on learning experiences
* double check to make sure the door is locked and the lights are turned off.
* child-like imagination
* limitless curiosity
* inattentive to grooming and personal hygiene, awkward appearance
* strong dislike of being interrupted when talking (It short-circuits the train of thought)
* remembers very early childhood events.
* perfectionist
* difficulty accepting mistakes
* difficulty making friends
* difficulty taking advice
* difficulty managing anger
* pattern of black and white thinking
* as a young child - bossy; a little older - tattletale
* calm in a crisis
* dislikes multitasking
* when young, exhibited self-stimulatory behavior: stimming (thumb-sucking)

An Aspie may not exhibit all these traits but most.

I think this list illustrates the very point the op was talking about, as it sounds like an aspie with a special interest (in aspieism) made it. This is not to invalidate its potential value depending upon how one defines the perceived function. Actually I like it cause it could be useful. Also it opens my heart even more to the inner dynamic, whatever it may be, of a person/people who are suffering. Obviously (to me) listing many characteristics of symptoms of a human being, some or many of which may be exaggerated or do not at all apply to a particular person does not explain the dynamics of a particular person. There may be another way of looking at it that is more generative. (Aspie speaking:-)

Asperger's syndrome is simply an outdated term for autism without speech delay, that was it's own separate diagnosis but is now classified under the broader "Autism Spectrum Disorder"

Asperger's isn't a recognized term anymore, 5 years ago it was changed to High Functioning Autism Spectrum Disorder (HFASD) and Asperger's is no longer used within the medical field.

Thanks for the input so far guys.

I think maybe my question might be better (albeit rather longwindedly) stated as: what is peculiar to the traits that constitute the ‘disorder’ of AS that makes those traits different from the similar traits as they appear in people who do not have AS? So, as I mentioned before, “having intense and highly-focused interests” can’t be a part of AS because you could be someone who has “intense and highly-focused interests” and yet not have AS. So what is it about the trait of “having intense and highly-focused interests” when it constitutes AS that makes it different from that trait as you see it in ‘normal’ people. Like in sportspeople for example.

To respond to what steve30 says:
“The kind of things you describe are indeed ‘normal’, but when it happens in Asperger's Syndrome (and other autisms), it is much more problematic.
For example, social interactions can be be very difficult.”

The idea here (please correct me if I have misunderstood) is that what makes a trait one that constitutes AS is that in AS the trait is manifest to such an extreme that it becomes “problematic” and results in “significant difficulties in social interaction”. But again this doesn’t really nail the issue. For example suppose there was some person who was surrounded only by people who had a completely different religious, moral and metaphysical outlook. Then that person is going to have “significant difficulties in social interaction”. They might feel isolated and be unable to communicate effectively with others. But this doesn’t mean they have AS. So what is peculiar to the “difficulties in social interaction” that constitute the ‘disorder’ called AS?

I think it would help me if I could read some detailed case studies. Or if I had specific detailed actual examples of the sorts of things that constitute AS. But they need to be really specific. I have found case studies online but they will say things like “he was found to lack interest in other children and to prefer solitary activities”. But that’s not detailed enough. That description could apply to a normal trait.

So steve30 says:
“Generally, uncertainty about anything will cause an aspie a lot more anxiety than a normal person.”
By which he means that AS people need more certainty than others. But can I get a concrete example of this?

Tinman

Op wrote: "I think maybe my question might be better (albeit rather longwindedly) stated as: what is peculiar to the traits that constitute the ‘disorder’ of AS that makes those traits different from the similar traits as they appear in people who do not have AS?"

Well, rain is making me a little cuckoo today. Ha ha Woo Woo/

1. So here's a Zen koan: People with AS are more of a cash cow to the therapy profession then is the average jock, so there is more of a motivation to pin point certain characteristics, this not being the koan but the koan being-- since this is so obvious, then why is it a koan?

2. If there is something very obvious that is not being seen, and you tell it to the people who are not seeing it, would they then suddenly see it, or would this material need to be presented in a special way, and if so, why can they only see it a special way?

3 What is the nature of a taboo and do certain taboos serve a practical function?

4 Do genetics trump (:-) personality or does personality trump genetics?

5. Matthew 5:13-16 King James Version (KJV)13: "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men."

6.. What is salt a symbol for?

7.The Secret of the sevenfold, never told, good as gold.

"High Functioning Autism" is a term that describes Autism with average to above average intelligence. It has nothing to do with how the autistic is functioning in society at the moment.

There is no and has been no "High Functioning Autism" diagnoses in any diagnostic manual I know of, but clinicians continue to diagnosis using that label for reasons I have no clue about.

Aspergers was/is "high functioning autism" without language issues before age 3.

In 1992 the ICD manual added the "Aspergers Syndrome" diagnosis

In 1994 the DSM IV Manual added the "Aspergers Disorder" diagnosis as a separate diagnosis despite the widespread understanding that Aspergers is part of the Autism spectrum.

In 2013 the DSM 5 manual "subsumed "Aspergers Disorder" diagnosis into the "Autism Spectrum Disorder" diagnosis. The diagnosis has 3 levels of severity based on the amount of support needed. The manual instructed clinicians to transfer the people with legitimate old Aspergers diagnosis over to the "Autism Spectrum Disorder" diagnosis. The diagnosis "Autism Spectrum Disorder Level 1 without intellectual and language impairment" most closely resembles Aspergers

Te next ICD manual won't have Aspergers in it either.

People can and will describe themselves however they please be it "having Aspergers", "Aspie", "high functioning" manuals be dammed.

There are different kinds of brains; that is a given, as the gene pool of humanity needs variety in order to be generative. Probably we all understand this, and also, the conditions that the human brain evolved to adapt to have changed in many ways. It is interesting to look at this in relation to personality dysfunction. It cannot accurately be said that personality dysfunction is genetic. That makes no sense, generally speaking, and, basically, if something works, why try to fix it, but if it doesn't work, then try to fix it. People are trying to fix all kinds of things. Another reason is to have more power and control. And then there is story. We like to tell ourselves stories about ourselves. Bet your bottom dollar if a person doesn't fit in, whatever the brain wiring, he will have all kinds of stories to tell himself about it, and one thing builds upon another; just as a personality develops, a culture develops, nurtured in the climate of story. It can be rich and creative, but it is necessary to work it instead of letting it work oneself.

...Well, ever since AS was (in the US) declared to be no longer a full " disease " and dimply s sub-set under the umbrella of HFA, well...

I don't see any great degree of similarity between traditional Autism and Asperger's. This specifically is causing lots of confusion. We need to have psychology and neurology work more closely as sciences to determine true neurological differences vs something more simple.

We also need a new diagnostic system general. I think something like OCD or Sensory Processing Disorder has more to do with high functioning Asperger's syndrome than with traditional Autism. People with OCD can often demonstrate symptoms closer to Asperger's than to other anxiety spectrum disorders. Another example would be the inclusion of Borderline and Sociopathy in the same personality cluster, where they are obviously total opposites. There's probably many undiscovered "disorders" out there which are real and cause significant suffering for a person but the rest of society has no idea, and there's also probably many that are fake, or at least undefinable.

I don't think its not "real", but it's being viewed and categorized incorrectly. In my view, high and very high functioning Asperger's syndrome is more likely to be a sensory/information processing difficulty, while also taking in huge amounts of information and being more "efficient" in general, leading to what we see as gifts in HFASD.

You have no idea what can of worms you've opened up there. But yes, I do agree with your point of view.

@Alexplank, why can't this forum have a like button?

Why are subcategories wrong or offensive in “Autism”?

If you get a paper cut it is obviously a very different experience then being run over by a car and having multiple fractures. We call all of it pain and people do not seem to have a problem with it.

Lung cancer is a different experience then lukemia. You do not generally have stage 0 or 1 cancer patiants saying I don’t want to be described as a cancer patiant because the catagory is too broad, those stage 4 people have another condition. You do not generally hear stage 4 cancer patients saying those stage 1 or stage 0 people do not have “real cancer” they ought to stop whining.

Burn patients, vision and hearing impairments, most things in life people do not have this problem we have in “Autism” or whatever you want to call it.

“Real Autistics” have sensory sensitivities and motor coordination and get anxious and depressed also but the “intellectually disabled” can’t write blogs about it. Carly Fleischmann did not communicate to age 11 or 12 still is not verbal. She has described arms feeling like they are constantly being stabbed.

Autism describes core traits. Some people have them a lot more “severe” then others, in some of of us some of these traits are “mild” enough that we have learned to mask them while others are noticable no matter how hard we try to act “normal”.

Autism is a relativly new discovery. People did not know we existed 100 years ago. In addition researchers have screwed up by looking for the wrong things, having confirmation bias from an NT perspective. Clinitions have accepted what part of autism knowledge that is there they wanted to and diagnosed and treated accordingly. The American Psychological Association writers of the DSM are impaired(pun intended) by insurance considerations.

We need many more subcatagories of autism not less and these subcatagories need to more in tune with the actual traits individuals have. Like with sensory sensitivitivies we need to accept that some “co-occuring” conditions are actually autism traits.