The question of attractiveness

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MaxE
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16 Feb 2019, 10:42 am

It seems to me that people on this forum don't want to address the topic of attractiveness. Simply put, romantic feelings often, if not usually, begin with a feeling of attraction for another person. By which I mean physical attractiveness, although what goes into that varies by person. Part of it may be that the other person "looks" like the kind of person who would reciprocate their feelings of attraction, for whatever reason.

I see members of both sexes complaining that they can never get anything started with anybody, and others who seem to have been in a whole series of relationships (perhaps too many but that's a different topic). Whenever I see posts from the former, I find that I must assume they aren't attractive to many people. That's not fair, but unfortunately the world is like that.

I see some men being constantly advised that they "need to work on themselves" or told to be patient as the "right one will eventually turn up." Some of these guys might not in fact have much of a chance in the modern "dating" world.

Sometimes people are more attractive than they think. When I was in school, I was basically treated as an outcast so I never thought I was very attractive, yet occasionally I would ask girls on dates and they would accept (usually "one and done" once they had greater exposure to me as an individual). I eventually learned that some women have in fact found me quite attractive, which probably explains why women have even hit on me (although admittedly some of them had their own problems).

I have seen people whom most would consider ordinary-looking who nevertheless have pursued opposite-sex companionship without the least degree of self consciousness. I can remember one lady several years younger than I that I would never have noticed until it came to my attention that she was majorly into me, in which case I became quite smitten by her. For women, making their feelings of attraction for some guy explicit can radically change how the guys sees them. I have seen women on this site that I believe could benefit greatly from this, if they weren't too shy to try it. (the problem may be that this behavior is ridiculed in popular media but IRL it can be a winning strategy).

Finally though you have people who are simply not (term often used by Amy Schumer in her routines that begins with "f"). In a community like this one, there are probably more than the usual number of those. The fact is, these people have a real problem, however I have also seen people I would include in this category succeed in entering loving relationships. Usually though, they find partners who would also be considered equally unattractive by the average person. Nevertheless, it is considered wrong to suggest that anybody "settle" for a less-attractive partner. If a woman who looks like Gabourey Sidibe in "Precious" insists that she wants a relationship with a guy who looks like Liam Hemsworth, then nobody dare say anything to discourage her. I also tend to doubt that any guy here who complains that he's over 30 and has never had a date, is willing to consider women his own age (of whom countless examples may be found on a trip to any American shopping mall) who fit this description.

I am not offering any broad suggestion as to what to do about this except perhaps a willingness to address this issue more directly than most of us seem willing to do.


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The Grand Inquisitor
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16 Feb 2019, 12:53 pm

MaxE wrote:
It seems to me that people on this forum don't want to address the topic of attractiveness. Simply put, romantic feelings often, if not usually, begin with a feeling of attraction for another person. By which I mean physical attractiveness, although what goes into that varies by person. Part of it may be that the other person "looks" like the kind of person who would reciprocate their feelings of attraction, for whatever reason.

I see members of both sexes complaining that they can never get anything started with anybody, and others who seem to have been in a whole series of relationships (perhaps too many but that's a different topic). Whenever I see posts from the former, I find that I must assume they aren't attractive to many people. That's not fair, but unfortunately the world is like that.

I see some men being constantly advised that they "need to work on themselves" or told to be patient as the "right one will eventually turn up." Some of these guys might not in fact have much of a chance in the modern "dating" world.

Sometimes people are more attractive than they think. When I was in school, I was basically treated as an outcast so I never thought I was very attractive, yet occasionally I would ask girls on dates and they would accept (usually "one and done" once they had greater exposure to me as an individual). I eventually learned that some women have in fact found me quite attractive, which probably explains why women have even hit on me (although admittedly some of them had their own problems).

I have seen people whom most would consider ordinary-looking who nevertheless have pursued opposite-sex companionship without the least degree of self consciousness. I can remember one lady several years younger than I that I would never have noticed until it came to my attention that she was majorly into me, in which case I became quite smitten by her. For women, making their feelings of attraction for some guy explicit can radically change how the guys sees them. I have seen women on this site that I believe could benefit greatly from this, if they weren't too shy to try it. (the problem may be that this behavior is ridiculed in popular media but IRL it can be a winning strategy).

Finally though you have people who are simply not (term often used by Amy Schumer in her routines that begins with "f"). In a community like this one, there are probably more than the usual number of those. The fact is, these people have a real problem, however I have also seen people I would include in this category succeed in entering loving relationships. Usually though, they find partners who would also be considered equally unattractive by the average person. Nevertheless, it is considered wrong to suggest that anybody "settle" for a less-attractive partner. If a woman who looks like Gabourey Sidibe in "Precious" insists that she wants a relationship with a guy who looks like Liam Hemsworth, then nobody dare say anything to discourage her. I also tend to doubt that any guy here who complains that he's over 30 and has never had a date, is willing to consider women his own age (of whom countless examples may be found on a trip to any American shopping mall) who fit this description.

I am not offering any broad suggestion as to what to do about this except perhaps a willingness to address this issue more directly than most of us seem willing to do.

I disagree that physical attractiveness goes unaddressed on this forum I've certainly seen some members cover it and I also cover it. Sometimes, maximising your physical attractiveness falls under the umbrella of "work on yourself" though, so sometimes it's lumped in with getting your life together and as such may not be seen to be as much of a point of emphasis. I think some of the people here that struggle with getting relationships are unable to step outside of themselves and view themselves through the lens of a prospective partner, relative to other choices that prospective partner has, and realise that improvement is necessary if they're to have any hope of competing.

A fair bit of attractiveness is determined by genetics, but I would dare say that enough of it is determined by other factors and choices for most people who are struggling tp fond spme degree of success if they commit to making the best of what they've got. A lot of is who struggle with attracting a partner are fat, for instance, and that isn't a coincidence. Being overweight and particularly significantly overweight is generally a massive detractor lookswise. Cultivating a distinct and deliberate style, haircut, etc can improve one's appearance dramatically compared to putting no effort in style. I think generally speaking, if you maintain a healthy/aesthetically pleasing weight, cultivate a deliberate style and of course take care of hygiene, most people won't be barred from being able to date someone in the average range, unless of course the person in question is physically deformed, or has significant or plentiful physical flaws to the point where most people would be turned off, but I don't think that can generally be determined whilst someone's significantly overweight. Often the extra weight distorts facial features and body shape so it is difficult to come to a conclusion until the weight is lost.

I don't see any evidence that the 30+ people here who struggle with love are snubbing people within their age range. I think it's more to do with panicking when they reach 30 because they feel like they're starting to drift away from the young adult category and perhaps they believe they should have had experiences that they missed out on during that time.



xxZeromancerlovexx
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16 Feb 2019, 8:11 pm

Looks do matter. The thing about weight is, people need to be realistic. A healthy weight for a girl my height is 107 to 135 or something like that.I have never been skinny and at my smallest (not counting puberty years) I was 185 or 195 which was in freshman year in high school. Now I am 257 and am working on slowly getting to 165 pounds.

I shower, wear makeup, dress nicely, accessorize, make sure my hair looks styled and wear perfume.


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goldfish21
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17 Feb 2019, 3:18 pm

Yes, some need to be more realistic about what type of partner is attainable for them.. but from what I see, there's a whole lot more personal responsibility required in terms of making oneself more attractive in order to attract any partner. It seems a number of complainers here are told many times over that if they'd put time, effort, and energy into their own physical health & appearance that they'd fare better in terms of attracting a date or partner. But they seem extremely resistant to the idea that they have to put any effort into changing or improving themselves in order to attract others. They seem to be of the very stubborn belief that they're fine just the way they are and can't understand why anyone wouldn't be throwing themselves at them. In reality, this hasn't worked out well for any of them, and they continue to complain instead of take action and do anything about it.

Then there are those of us who make healthy diets & exercise, and in turn body composition, a priority in our lives who then reap the benefits of others being attracted to us. We have dates, hookups/sex, and for those interested in them, relationships. We share our collective experiences here on the forums for others to learn from, and some do, but for the most part it seems those who complain still don't make the connection between taking personal responsibility for one's own attractiveness & ability to attract others into their life and don't do a damned thing about affecting positive change on those things for themselves. Rinse and repeat. It's the same people getting healthier, fitter, more attractive and sexier who are enjoying better social lives, dating lives, sex lives, and relationships.. and the same others who do not accept objective reality & personal responsibility who continue to be frustrated with the lack of positive results they're getting in their own lives.

What more can any of us here do to impress upon others that they're going to get out of dating/sex/love & relationships exactly what they're willing to put into themselves in terms of self improvement, physical fitness, aesthetics, fashion etc? :?

It's like the guy who eats a whole cake & lb of bacon for breakfast complaining that he doesn't have a beach body. Well, no s**t, you didn't do the work required to build one - so why should you expect to have one? :?


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oscarinthewild
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18 Feb 2019, 1:47 am

I saw some of the 10 year chanllenge comparison.. and it was ..encouraging..


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MannyBoo
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18 Feb 2019, 11:37 am

Not only a good attractive face matters, but also fit slim healthy body. In men or women, obesity or overweight is not attractive, neither is underweight or anorexic, regardless of attractive face, and in fact a sign of unhealthy.

Additionally, if personality is kind, and attitude is positive, then that person is all-round attractive, and healthy, both emotionally and physically. If you can find someone who is attractive in both categories, it’s the best case.



Amity
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18 Feb 2019, 11:57 am

MannyBoo wrote:
...
Additionally, if personality is kind, and attitude is positive, then that person is all-round attractive, and healthy, both emotionally and physically. If you can find someone who is attractive in both categories, it’s the best case.

+1
For me the physical look is less important, than physical health, I don't see many others posting statements like that, but I think there are many others like me, maybe just not vocal about it... I love the small details, they add up to create an attraction.
If the value of what I say depends on my attractiveness in the conventional sense then I know the other person is a wrong fit and that's ok. I know for certain that I need a very specific type of partner.



MaxE
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18 Feb 2019, 3:06 pm

I think this thread has gone in a strange direction.

There has been advice about approving one's attractiveness through exercise, diet, and grooming; which is all valid. I can report that around age 30 when I started working out regularly, that I noticed a definite change in how young women related to me. Even ones who were in relationships became friendlier.

Nevertheless, much of what people have said simply reaffirms my initial premise that in this world, attractiveness is a big, possibly the biggest factor in determining who "gets lucky" with finding partners and who doesn't. In theory, anybody can improve, but there are also a great many who are simply unattractive, who are cursed with bizarre body shapes or really weird looking faces, and nobody seems to get the fact that these people will probably go through life alone. If you don't believe me, I could (but I won't) walk around the nearest shopping mall and take photos of a few people whose situation is hopeless in this regard. I wish there were some way to connect them with other equally hopeless members of their preferred gender and convince them to at least try to pretend they are attracted enough to each other to have a relationship (or at least interact with each other sexually which I insist would be better than nothing). In fact, I have seen people who seem to have done this. I know a young woman in her early 30s who is absolutely enormous. I forget just how big she is until she rides as a passenger in my small car, and she seems to consume the all the available interior volume of the car that's available to her. And she has been in a relationship for years with a guy with physical disabilities severe enough that he must use a walker. And yet she seems perfectly happy with her life, but of course that involves her having settled for a boyfriend who in earlier times would have been described by most people as a "cripple".

I will also repeat my earlier claim that many "ordinary-looking" or "plain" women stand a good chance of obtaining male companionship if they are willing to be up front with guys they are physically attracted to, regarding their interest. Of course, that carries with it a risk of rejection but it's still the best advice I think I can give.


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18 Feb 2019, 8:54 pm

Question of Attractiveness... also indirectly suggest, Question of Ugliness?

Which is a less polite, or perhaps overtly rude, way to talk about these issues.

But judgment of ugliness exists in people’s minds. Despite not being openly mentioned.

Accepting someone for their attractiveness, also means rejecting others for their ugliness.

Two sides of same coins.



MaxE
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15 Jun 2019, 10:32 am

Bumping my own thread.

A discussion related to attractiveness developed on the Random thread in the Adult forum. I tried to derail it because I don't believe that to be that particular thread's purpose.

Anybody want to revisit some ideas addressed on the other thread, this would be the place.


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15 Jun 2019, 11:39 am

Where have you been MaxE. This has been mentioned many a time. :scratch:

Especially to overweight members who are willing to share their photographs.


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MaxE
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15 Jun 2019, 1:30 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Where have you been MaxE. This has been mentioned many a time. :scratch:
In my own little world?

Anyway, this got me thinking of ironic ways that attractiveness affects peoples' "love lives". Many hetero women who are generally considered attractive, and believe themselves so, seemingly have no problem with having a lot of casual relationships with men. I will use casual to describe any relationship with no prospect of life-long commitment, whether one-night-stands, monogamous but short-term relationships of a few months' duration, or FWB arrangements. They can do this because their attractiveness gives them confidence they can always move on to the next relationship when the current one gets stale.

OTOH less attractive women seem desperate (I use this term advisedly) to find a life partner. Because they don't think any man wants to commit to a lifetime with them, they assume any guy (whom they themselves consider attractive) that shows interest, just wants to use them for sex and then discard them. Men are aware of this, so they hesitate to approach such women even if there may be some they would happily date so long as they could be given some time to decide how committed they are to such a relationship. Which can lead to some women basically not getting many dates, even though they may in fact be more attractive to men than they suspect.

As it turns out, a lot of guys are hesitant to approach women they believe to be less attractive, either for the reason given above, or perhaps because they are unsure if they want to commit but run the risk of regretting that decision. They would probably be happy to not only have sex with such a woman, but share other parts of their lives with her. In other words, "date" her in the usual way. But they ask themselves, if I decide I really don't want to marry her, then what? She will probably feel abandoned, betrayed, used, etc. An "attractive" woman won't react that way, in fact, odds are she'll be the first member of the partnership to do the "dumping". So he can go right ahead and "fool around" with her and risk only the pain of being rejected, but not the guilt and remorse due to having broken some unfortunate woman's heart.


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15 Jun 2019, 2:08 pm

So I'm ugly. Thanks mate


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15 Jun 2019, 2:10 pm

MaxE. Is this based on anything? Conversations with friends? Observations of how people behave around you?

Or are you just over thinking.

You're making men seem very very stupid. And unkind, like women are throw away objects.


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15 Jun 2019, 2:15 pm

hurtloam wrote:
So I'm ugly. Thanks mate


I haven’t seen you, but I highly doubt you’re ugly.

Anyway, I’ve never known anyone offline who couldn’t get a relationship based on his or her appearance (and I’ve known some very unattractive people - I feel so mean!), so I doubt that’s your problem.