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Mesh359
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21 Feb 2019, 10:09 am

are most NTs ascended beings just stuffing around in human form?



kraftiekortie
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21 Feb 2019, 10:11 am

Nope.

WE are the "ascended beings."



Mesh359
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21 Feb 2019, 10:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Nope.

WE are the "ascended beings."

could you go into that a little deeper?



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21 Feb 2019, 10:16 am

I'm not a very philosophical type----but I feel like some autistic people, in a sense, have been able to transcend the superficial. Hence, we are "ascended." We "rise" from the superficial.

That doesn't make autistic people "superior," though. In a sense, it actually makes them "lucky."



Mesh359
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21 Feb 2019, 10:17 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm not a very philosophical type----but I feel like some autistic people, in a sense, have been able to transcend the superficial. Hence, we are "ascended." We "rise" from the superficial.

That doesn't make autistic people "superior," though. In a sense, it actually makes them "lucky."

ah i see where your coming from



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21 Feb 2019, 1:23 pm

There are no "Ascended" beings, only evolved creatures.



naturalplastic
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21 Feb 2019, 5:21 pm

Mesh359 wrote:
are most NTs ascended beings just stuffing around in human form?


So...let me get this straight.

NTs are 98 percent of the population.

So youre saying that 98 percent of the human race are "ascended beings" living under the guise of being regular real folks?

And only the two percent remaining are ...regular real folks?

That would mean the ascended beings are the norm, and that the regular slobs are the rare exception.

If your just like the 98 percent majority then how can you be "ascended" above the norm?

Doesn't make any sense to me. :lol:



techstepgenr8tion
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21 Feb 2019, 10:19 pm

The difference between us and NTs that gets us the diagnosis - they instinctively know how to be not just social but animalistic far better than we do. We have to learn backstabbing, domination, and stepping on heads to get ahead as a second language and we never quite pass as native speakers.


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22 Feb 2019, 9:02 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
The difference between us and NTs that gets us the diagnosis - they instinctively know how to be not just social but animalistic far better than we do. We have to learn backstabbing, domination, and stepping on heads to get ahead as a second language and we never quite pass as native speakers.


I'd say that ASDs care about things - or, in projects, the outcome of the project, and less about what the project does for you. The NT cares about the social aspects of a thing, including his own gains and pleasure - where the ASD gets pleasure from the thing itself.

But I think that comes with a rather new social problem: the way economists and techies and engineers see people, (I'm implying that economists and techies and engineers are Aspies, here) - because they -we - care more about our models, than we care about how it works in a social environment. And eventually, that ends up not being good for ourselves, either. I think we/engineers/economists need to learn way more outside of our specialities, otherwise we're creating a technocratic and technological hellscape that neglects all the human aspects - of which we, too, have some - that aren't represented by, say, game theory, or the homo oeconomicus.

the NT way of doing things however will just descend into chaos and tribal warfare. they've been doing that for millennia


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techstepgenr8tion
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22 Feb 2019, 3:51 pm

I'd agree that AS and NT both have their inherent blindspots and when (or if) we see ourselves as inferior it's more by quantity and to some degree how unstable our edge of the genome is.

As we gain more technological leverage though and lose our freedom to be moody or reckless short of dire fallout I think we're going to need to go to a place, psychologically as a species, where we can agree on systems and think critically about them. To that extent two things will have to happen - NT's will have to tame in our direction when it comes to narcissists, egotists, and psychopaths, also those among us who are mad scientist sorts who aren't paying attention to fallout or risk will have to be called out in a similar manner. Otherwise - I hope enough amazonian tribes, bushmen, and Eskimos are left over to populate the planet when we blow ourselves off the face of it.


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shlaifu
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22 Feb 2019, 7:33 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I'd agree that AS and NT both have their inherent blindspots and when (or if) we see ourselves as inferior it's more by quantity and to some degree how unstable our edge of the genome is.

As we gain more technological leverage though and lose our freedom to be moody or reckless short of dire fallout I think we're going to need to go to a place, psychologically as a species, where we can agree on systems and think critically about them. To that extent two things will have to happen - NT's will have to tame in our direction when it comes to narcissists, egotists, and psychopaths, also those among us who are mad scientist sorts who aren't paying attention to fallout or risk will have to be called out in a similar manner. Otherwise - I hope enough amazonian tribes, bushmen, and Eskimos are left over to populate the planet when we blow ourselves off the face of it.


good point....the homo oeconomicus actually is an egoist and psychopath. and the system the nerdy economists are trying to fit humans into are designed for the "rational self-interested individual".
behavioural economics is the field that recognized that non-psychopaths are not good at being "self-interested individuals" because they act on incomplete information [yes. not, say, aesthetic interests or social interests].
So behavioural economics decided to design "nudges", to make people make "better", more rationally-self-interested choices. It reminds of when the paranoid schizophrenic Nash invented game theory, and they checked their hypothesis on the female secretaries - and it didn't work as planned. So they figured it must have been because they were women, who, you know, aren't that rational, because they weren't trying to game the system set up for the test.

thinking about this aspect - that actually, the attempt to solve things rationally, might be just as bad, is depressing me. because eventually, we're faced with complexities that would require gigantic amounts of data and control to ... control.
As an example: insects. Farmers have no interest in all insects dying. Very much the opposite. However, as long as there is no perfect way to tell what the monetary value of individual species is, and how to protect it, it is in the farmer's rational self interest to spray insecticide and hope for conservationists to keep the thing afloat.
it'll be hard to convince him on economic grounds -even if he wanted to! - to not use insecticides.


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techstepgenr8tion
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22 Feb 2019, 8:28 pm

I just had a chat with my dad's niece (despite that she's in her late 50's/early 60's, and she was telling me about how cut-throat the technological fields are and how you have to deliberately withhold a degree of the information that you know so that a person more ruthless than yourself doesn't mooch it off of you and send you out the door. From my experience so far and the kinds of imbeciles that try passing themselves off as professionals the work world really amounts to 1) apes, 2) ape s**t, 3) ape dongs covered in ape s**t. It's getting tougher with passing days, when I see the absolute lack of integrity, to want to even call these things 'humans' - it completely eviscerates any historical or philosophic value the word ever had.

Also I hear you on our management of externalities. That ball seems to fall right between the geeks and grunts and thud on the ground. I'm starting to wonder if the future of our technology will start steering away from alleviating work and more toward trying to mimic the necessary activities of things that we drove extinct. With all too many people - if it doesn't get me social prestige, if it doesn't get me high, if it doesn't enlarge my genitals or lengthen sexual intercourse - why bother caring.


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23 Feb 2019, 1:06 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eefAdADos4w

Labels are Good For Describing the Diversity
of the Human Species and Getting Insurance
Money Back on Verified Disorders With
Labels too; but the Differences We
See Amongst Individuals With
Human Nature may benefit the
Whole Much more than the Near
Sighted Among us Seeing With
Spectacles of More Closed Minds and
Bodies now too. It's Like Homosexuality
As Now Understood to Benefit the Species
Overall as Lord Knows How Many Humans Elton
John Has Helped Pro-Create Just through the Romantic
Verses of His Music that Leads all Naturally to More of the
Actual Coitus Among Human Beings Still; Yes, Potentially More
Humans Helped to Father than even Genghis Kahn Achieved With
His Lower Body Parts as Words of Song and Music May Achieve So Much
More Even From
Elton John who
Didn't Care
Much for
Achieving
that Heterosexual Act.
And of course as Far as Folks
on the Autism Spectrum Do Go
there are those who Do not Get the
'Normal' Benefit of Oxytocin when Chatting
Over the Weather Outside in Social Bonding Ways
of Warm and Fuzzy Within to Give and Share more
Over the Most Mundane of Moments in Life; And of course
What this Means if you are not already Gaining the Intrinsic
Neurohormonal Way of Oxytocin IN Social Bonding Group Think Ways;
Without that Reward; Yes, there is the Dopamine Stimulating Activities
of Painting Sistine Chapels too that go on and on Never Quite touching
the Comfort that Might Other Wise Come From an Oxytocin Social Bonding High.
And Hey; For me at Least,
If You Get Outcast Enough
No Matter what the
Reason is Within
Inside Outside Above
So Below And or All Around
About Being an Outcast Now
The Artist and Scientist Journey
In Works of Arts and Sciences as they
Go Along with Others on their Journey Inherent
Activity as such for Gaining Peace and Harmony and
Bliss Comes too; Even without any External Pacifiers Like a Coca-Cola Now.
Anyway; as 'kraftiekortie' Clearly Stated Some of us Transcend the Common Mundane
Experience of Life Ascending into an Autotelic Nirvana Within Achieved Through a
Dancing and Singing Trance Now For Real in Moving Meditation Even more NoW as
The Flow; the Transient Hypo-Frontality Flow Expands the Mindful and Body-Full
Awareness of All of Us
Who Do Transcend And
Ascend to Higher Human
Potentials in so many more
Arts and Sciences now true too
Yes Some of Us Truly are the Lucky
Ones Living in Heaven Now For Real
And Yes Still Visiting Some Aspects
of Hell still Just to Retain the Perspective
of Heaven
Within Real
Now to Be NoW.


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shlaifu
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23 Feb 2019, 8:52 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I just had a chat with my dad's niece (despite that she's in her late 50's/early 60's, and she was telling me about how cut-throat the technological fields are and how you have to deliberately withhold a degree of the information that you know so that a person more ruthless than yourself doesn't mooch it off of you and send you out the door. From my experience so far and the kinds of imbeciles that try passing themselves off as professionals the work world really amounts to 1) apes, 2) ape s**t, 3) ape dongs covered in ape s**t. It's getting tougher with passing days, when I see the absolute lack of integrity, to want to even call these things 'humans' - it completely eviscerates any historical or philosophic value the word ever had.

Also I hear you on our management of externalities. That ball seems to fall right between the geeks and grunts and thud on the ground. I'm starting to wonder if the future of our technology will start steering away from alleviating work and more toward trying to mimic the necessary activities of things that we drove extinct. With all too many people - if it doesn't get me social prestige, if it doesn't get me high, if it doesn't enlarge my genitals or lengthen sexual intercourse - why bother caring.


I used to have a job in preproduction an children's television. The stories were stupid and so on - and whenever I had any ideas to make things better, I was told that, yes, that would be better - but we weren't going to do it, because the client had signed off on the scripts as they are. There was no interest in putting in any more work than what was paid for to create something *good* - rendering the work that was being put in completely pointless.
I've been working freelance since then, which is of course problematic etc. -but I get to acrually tell clients what I think we could do better, and more often than not, they like it, and while I put in more effort than I get paid for, I get the feeling of having improved something.
I wonder what people take away, emotionally, from their work....


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23 Feb 2019, 1:25 pm

Yes, tech is a cutthroat career. I've had to keep two sets of notebooks -- one full of random diagrams and half-baked ideas, and the other full of Concepts The Actually Work. The former I leave scattered around my lab and office at work, and the latter I keep locked away and after scanning them onto an encrypted thumb drive.

Every now and then, a new hire will find one of my notebooks, see something that he or she likes, and then try to present it to the higher-ups as his or her own original idea. That's how I learn whom I can and cannot trust.

Then there are people who claim that one of my successful ideas originated with them, even after I've provided proof that I originated the idea long before they were hired.

As long as you document everything you do, your reputation is safe. As long as you document everything everyone else does, your reputation is even safer.