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Max1951
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26 Feb 2019, 7:33 pm

You know, we have come so far so fast in the development of technology.

From my vantage point of nearly 7 decades, it's remarkable to witness the pace technological developments. It seems that, if the human race can survive and thrive technologically, that we will one day become capable of making, any miracle that we can think of, happen.

So, what if some civilization, far away, in a distant galaxy, has already done this, being much more advanced in their technology; able to do anything that you could imagine. Essentially, a God to lesser developed beings.

I know, the idea's anathema to some, but is the idea logically flawed?



naturalplastic
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26 Feb 2019, 8:06 pm

The title of thread is false and misleading.

what you are asking has nothing to do with the question of whether or not God exists.

Please get it straight what it is you are asking.

What you are asking is is it possible that there are humanlike nonsupernatural human like creatures elsewhere in the universe who have evolved technology that we would consider "god like" if we encountered them. The answer to that question is "yes, that is possible". Just like tech we had even 100 years ago seemed godlike to primitive peoples within our own species on our own planet.



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26 Feb 2019, 8:14 pm

@Max1951: Your idea, being only an idea, is relevant only to the realm of speculation, especially to the literary genre of speculative fiction -- most especially science-fiction.

Even a teleological argument can be addressed, but you have presented no argument that favors the existence of an extraterrestrial alien superculture, God, or any allegedly supernatural being.



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26 Feb 2019, 8:45 pm

That sounds like Neil DeGrasse Tyson's 50/50 on a simulated universe.


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27 Feb 2019, 2:37 am

Welcome Max1951...

I'm a hard core atheist who blieves people/humanity take/s themselves/itself too seriously...
To me, man/woman-kind are a simple evolutionary quirk, and a serious mistake of nature...

Contrary to "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", humanity is *not* mostly harmless...
It is often, if not usually, an extremely toxic aspect of "life, the universe and everything..."

My point? :scratch:
Ah yes, I do have one...

My point is, that in my not so humble opinion, humanity will not and can not evolve throughout eternity and beyond...
There is nothing divine about the human animal...
And there is no intrinsic destiny for this rather shabby quirk/mistake of the evolutionary mechanism...
Sorry to burst your bubble... :mrgreen:

I thank you...
<bow>
<exit stage right>


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Piobaire
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27 Feb 2019, 6:48 am

Image



aghogday
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27 Feb 2019, 10:30 am

'This' is a Very Deep Question as Far as a Logical Premise Goes For God; But First the Standard Christian Definition of God may Still Be at Hand in this Generation Now Within to Give and Share as Follows Below in Full:

1 John 4:8

(New King James Version)
"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love."

Any Questions Class?

Now Back to Your Question; as You Are Defining God As Not Jesus As An Anthropomorphic Expression of the Emotion/Giving/Sharing of Love But as An Extra-Terrestrial Being(s) Responsible for the Creation and Being of Existence Now.

That is certainly Not out of the Question as Even Rock Star of Astrophysics, Neil DeGrasse Tyson,
Who Certainly Has more Credentials to Answer this Question than Anyone Currently Answering to
This Question now in This Thread, at Least; As He Will Not Rule Out that a Much More Advanced Being(s) than Us Has Created All of the Reality We Exist in and Come To Be as A Holographic Simulation; That We May Be Enjoying Now or Not Enjoying Now; Yes, Likely, Depending on How Much Love We Have to Give and Share With Others Standing Tall Together 'Holding Hands' Justly Without Fear; In FAct, I propose A New Christian Name For God to Get Rid of So Much of the Confusion as 'Big Saint John' Already Makes it Clear That God IS Love; Unless, 'You' are 'Bill Clinton' And You Question the Semantics And the Pedantic Nature of the Term 'IS' as Currently Part of the USA English Language; And left Over From the "Queen's" English too. Yes, in Short Here, to Be Brief as i Will; True, i could Answer this with 6.6 Million Words as i have already done in my Own Personal Version of a Bible in 66 Months; but since That is Against the Rules Here to Stay a Bit More Shallow than as Deep as That; in short Let's Just Make God Now "JusTALLoVE"; Because if We Don't We will Just Hold Hands in Misery and Suffering in Doubt And Fear and Hate Away from the Joy of Love Together Now. And By the Way; Imagining God as Love and Putting God as a Symbol (Jesus) of a Mentor To Give Great Gratitude and Praise to all of Your Existence as God as Love Is very Rational for it increases all of Your Happy Neurohormones and Neurochemicals; And if You Don't Wanna Love (God) Life Like this And Be Happy You May, Can, Or Will, Choose the Other Paths Away From Love (God) With Relative Free Will too As You So Choose (Environment and Genetics Plays a Big Role too; and if that is not Working Out for You that's Above my Pay Grade, at least.,}:


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27 Feb 2019, 11:29 am

Logical premise for a belief in God?

Your belief that You are. Is there a proof for that? Of course there's a proof that there are atoms and forces in your body that can interact with the environment, but can you prove to someone that they are You? That You feel love, suffer, etc? If you meet someone else with your memories, body, copy of your brain, etc. will you say that s/he is You? I don't think so. How can people you meet know that You are inside? Well, they can't, they can only make assumptions that you are, based on their own experience with themselves. That's why if we reject belief in God, You won't exist either. You'll be just a bunch of protons and neutrons, and electrical forces, only a thing that can be manipulated, tortured and destroyed at will.
Logic is based on assumptions, and not everything can be proved, even if it's true. We have to make a choice, we are free to make a choice in what we want to believe, what assumptions we will make. And belief in God is not knowledge of hers/his existence, it's the belief that God is good, that God is love.


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27 Feb 2019, 3:17 pm

What the OP is asking too muddled to even address as a question.

Humans in the future could in theory, survive into the future for eons.

Our culture and technology could keep on evolving, and we as a biological species might even continue to evolve, and we likely might evolve technology that enables us manipulate genes and could speed up our evolution- our tech evolution might easily aid and abet our biological evolution.

And if we ourself in possible futures could do that then so could putative living creatures in other solar systems.

We might aquire certain god like powers. But we, or these alien analogs of our possible future selves, would be only mimicking "god". We wouldn't 'be" god. God, as is usually defined, would be the creator of the Universe, and the ruler of the universe. These aliens could not ever be either of those things.

Unless

youre talking about "simulated universe" theory. The notion that our universe is just a simulation in a computer, like the the Sims, or Farmville. In which case then, yes, the creatures who programmed that simulation, and who are now playing with us in their version of Farmville could be considered "gods" (ie creators and rulers of our universe).



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27 Feb 2019, 4:05 pm

Great Response, 'Above', on the Fluid Nature of Our Realities; and How Much We Do Have to 'Dance And Sing'
whether Our Lives Become More Like Love to Have and Give and Share For God and Life to Become a Way of Love.

Now; Back to the Topic At Hand; and the Premise for a Belief in God as Logical in Terms of
An Extraterrestrial Intelligence; So, Much Greater than Our's Creating All Of of Our Realities now.

Actually, This Meshes Quite Well with the Christian God Anthropomorphized as the Character 'Jesus' in that Story;
As Not Only Does the Reporter Named 'John' Bring Words that We Don't Know God if We Do not Know Love as God is
Love; and Of Course that Means Jesus is Love if the Christians Really Believe if Jesus is Love as that IS a Clear Logical
Assumption to Make Based on the Words of Both the Text and Pulpit Inspired Words; That one Hears in Churches, too.

So; Anyway, How this Relates to Your Logical Premise for a Belief in God as Advanced Extraterrestrial Being(s) Doing
So many More Greater Works than us in Creativity and Productivity too; beyond even Our Human Imagination in
What We Have Even the Potential to do; the So-Called 'Reporter' all about the Jesus Character Who Does Become
Both a Liberal and Progressive Mentor as Evidenced in the Following Report on the Teaching of the Story Book
Character of 'Jesus' who is Also Regarded as God in Three Parts by Christians as Father, Son, With Holy Spirit too.

John 14:12 King James Version (KJV)

"12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

Reporter 'John'; doesn't Give any ifs and ands or buts about this Teaching as Verily Verily Means Verily True.

Yes; A Very Progressive and Liberal God Man "Jesus" Who Actually Seems In Words Like a More Empathic
Leader as He Only Seems to Wish to Serve Rather than Really Put Himself up as a Notch Above the Rest;
Humble Enough to Say as Any Real Loving Father Will; Son and or Daughter, i Want You to Achieve More than i
Did; if, You Believe Enough in Your Genetics i Gave You to Do Just that too With Environmental Factors in Play Now.

And Oh Lord; How Different the World Will Be if Every Child is Allowed to Move So Much Closer to Self-Actualization;
Other than How Someway or Other Way Jesus God was changed into the King of the Entire Universe; So, Much More Than Just a Humble Teacher Telling His Students They Will Achieve more than he; if they Do. So, Anyway, as the Christian
Folks Believe Jesus is a God From the Origin until All of the Future too; and By God the King of the UniVerse that is
A Really Big Place; It is Possible a Future John 14:12 Reflection of Jesus in Another Being Might Do Much more and
Even Create Jesus too as Yes; that/this is Getting into the Twilight Zone, 'Somewhat'; but it is Surely No Less Logical
Than A God Telling A Human He 'The Human' can and Will Do Greater Works than God, if He Just Believes Now true..:)

But of Course, if Jesus is Just a Humble Yogi-Like Dude it Makes Total and Whole Sense Unified instead of Divided as God All Now is more like the Pantheist God as All of Nature Now; Or The Panentheism God as All of Nature Now and Everything Else as Even a Larger Venn Diagram Inclusive as God Now; But on the Other Hand, again; Maybe God is Just a Typical Extraterrestrial Kid So Far More Advanced Than Us 'Beyond our Imagination' in A Basement in His 'Parents' Home Playing Super Advanced Video Games and Creating the Next Version of the Matrix that We Will Be Trapped in Forevermorenow.


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27 Feb 2019, 4:20 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Humans in the future could in theory, survive into the future for eons.


Possible...
But highly unlikely... 8)
Let us discuss this at: The restaurant at the end of the universe... :wink:


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I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


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27 Feb 2019, 4:22 pm

Your mileage may vary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6de ... ical_proof

The mention of it in the novel 'The goddess of small victory' mainly focusing on Kurt Godel's wife was a 'fun touch'.



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27 Feb 2019, 5:41 pm

sidetrack wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_ontological_proof

This proof reminds too much the construction of the set of all sets to be taken seriously. Its axioms are disputable at best. Existence of God cannot be proven. Here's why:
By definition, God is (the ultimate) goodness. Does it mean he must do for us only pleasant things? No, for example going to the dentist can be painful, but is good for us. But it may also be a torture, it depends on intentions. And truly good intentions can come only from love. It means that God is (the ultimate) love. What is the greatest act of love? Giving freedom to the one we love. So God must give us (the ultimate) freedom - fully free will. But it would be impossible if we could prove that God exists, we wouldn't have a choice then, and this would render many other choices impossible, we couldn't be really free, we wouldn't learn responsibility, because then God would be held responsible for everything we do. We must be able to deny God's existence in order to explore all possibilities, to exercise our free will and learn. And by the things in which we believe we can see who we are.


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27 Feb 2019, 8:28 pm

Whatever one wants to call it or not call it, 'something' pulls people back to Itself as a member of Itself at death and in most cases It's elated to have them back home.


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27 Feb 2019, 9:21 pm

I personally do not believe in God, but do not believe a logical premise is needed to do so.

1) If God exists, its abilities and motives are far beyond human comprehension.

2) All information on God has been filtered through flawed human writers/profits/priests etc.

3) Full truthfulness may not be in God's best interests, and thus any inconsistencies in the word of God can be explained away by "mysterious ways."

In summary there is no way to prove God does not exist, or that (insert favorite religious text) is not its doing. Even when aspects of religion or a religious text are inconsistent/proven false it is always possible this is what God wanted.

An example using the age of the earth. We know from carbon dating that the world is billions of years old. However, if God exists and created the world it is possible the "real" world has only existed for a few thousand years and that all the evidence of a billions year old world is just simulated. Think of God as a writer, and while its book starts 6000 years ago, there is a back-story going back billions of years built into it. There is no way to disprove the idea that the earth is only 6000 years old, but with planted evidence of a much larger history. What is incorrect is to claim that no evidence of a larger history exists.

As for the advanced beings as Gods theory proposed here. Again there is no way of disproving this. Given what we know of our universe, I do not think it is all that likely. Certain physical aspects of our universe make advancing beyond a certain technological threshold extremely difficult, or so it seems to us now. Perhaps when we advance beyond said threshold it will seem trivial to us. I'm certain our ancestors could not conceive of flying through the air or projecting one's voice a great distance.


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