Should MLK day be scrapped in the #MeToo era?

Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ]

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

24 Mar 2019, 7:05 pm

This thread was made with whataboutism intent, but I hope it brings to the fore important issues

Where does MLK fit in today's #MeToo world?

Quote:

Last November, students protesting sexual violence at Morehouse College in Atlanta defaced a church named after the school’s most famous graduate. The Martin Luther King Jr. Chapel was spray-painted with the words “Practice what you preach Morehouse + end rape culture,” which police officers covered up with a brown tarp.

Today, the students might protest the sexual misconduct of Martin Luther King Jr. himself. Over the past few days, during commemorations of the 50th anniversary of his murder, we've heard a lot about King's prophetic vision of peace and social justice. There's been much less talk about his serial philandering, which reminds us that he was — like all of us — a flawed human being, not a demigod.

nobody in King's circle seemed to think there was anything wrong with his multiple affairs and dalliances. To the contrary, as historian Taylor Branch has written, King’s fellow ministers and civil rights activists viewed his sexual conduct as normal or even praiseworthy. “They saw sexual adventure as a natural condition of manhood, of great preachers obsessed by loves, or of success, or of Negroes otherwise constrained by the white world,” Mr. Branch noted, “and they objected to King’s mistresses no more than to the scores of concubines who had soothed King David during the composition of his Psalms.”

According to Ralph Abernathy, one of King’s closest confidants, King attracted women “in droves, even when he didn’t intend to.” He spent 25 or so days of each month on the road, speaking and organizing; during those stressful trips, King told a friend, sex was “a form of anxiety reduction.” And as best we can tell, all of the sex was consensual.

But on the last day of King’s life, Abernathy claimed, his behavior crossed the line into verbal and physical violence. After delivering his now-iconic “Been to the Mountaintop” speech in Memphis on the night of April 3, 1968, King allegedly had sex with two different women: one at a friend’s house and another at the Lorraine Motel before a third woman showed up the next morning, hours before he would be killed, angry that King had been with other women instead of with her.

King and the third woman quarreled loudly. He “knocked her across the bed,” Abernathy wrote in his autobiography, “and for a moment they were in a full-blown fight, with King clearly winning.”

To be fair, other civil rights leaders who accompanied King to Memphis, including Rev. Jesse Jackson Jr., have vehemently denied Abernathy’s version of these events. But at least one of the women King allegedly slept with that night — Georgia Davis Powers, Kentucky’s first African-American state senator — confirmed that she had a long-standing affair with King and had been with him at the Lorraine Motel before he died.

By our standards, King’s behavior would be judged boorish and possibly coercive. He used his status and influence to get sex from women. And if Abernathy’s account is correct, he used his physical power to abuse at least one of them.

But King lived in his time, not in ours. The term “sexual harassment” wasn’t even coined until the 1970s, when the feminist movement began to challenge it in a sustained fashion. The campaign continued into the 1980s, when newspapers exposed presidential candidate Gary Hart’s infidelities. And it took on new force in the 1990s, with the Anita Hill-Clarence Thomas Supreme Court hearings and — of course — with Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky.

Martin Luther King's classmate, a Baltimore pastor, recalls him as playful, intense — and brilliant
Most recently, the #MeToo movement has revealed sexual misconduct in every corner of American culture.

Historians call that “presentism,” the imposition of contemporary ideas and assumptions upon historical figures who did not share them.

let’s also remember the central message of King’s ministry: a radical love of your enemies, even if they’re hateful racists. Or, we might add, sexual harassers.

Besides Martin Luther King day there are 25 MLK monuments worldwide. Remove them?

No, the monuments and holiday should not be removed.

Without corroboration, I will go on the assumption that Abernathy's accusation is not true. That said, his activities if revealed today about a current figure probably would be thought of as sexual harassment and most certainly would lead to calls for firing. But one should judge the whole man, his strength, what the civil rights movement he led achieved, his showing that it can be achieved without violence and petty name calling should be given more weight over this bad personal conduct.

The previous paragraph is at odds with a current discourse which insists that people who feel like me are at best suck ups for racism or in this case the male patriarchy and toxic masculinity, and are probably misogynists ourselves. But except for the rare article or so there is no serious call for erasing or removing MLK. This is hypocritical.

I can anticipate the counter-arguments now. One can not compare MLK offenses with an insurrection to keep slavery. I agree, comparing the two ignores context. This counter-argument would hold water with me if Garrison Keillor's misbehavior was not thought of as kind of the same as Harvey Weinstein's, if people who wore blackface 40 years ago were not judged equivalent to Unite the Right marchers in Charlottesville. The regressive left has had a lot of success in their campaign to drive out anything that they believe smacks of hate. With their understanding of how to use technology, and due to lack of understanding of civics IMHO, they are pretty much going to get their way. If so be it then MLK has got to go, intersectional hierarchy privilege be dammed.

_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.

SaveFerris
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Sep 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,762
Location: UK

24 Mar 2019, 7:34 pm

Lets get rid of christianity as well as jesus was a terrorist :twisted:

_________________
R Tape loading error, 0:1

Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury. Raise the double standard

TW1ZTY
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,115
Location: The US of freakin A <_<

24 Mar 2019, 7:40 pm

SaveFerris wrote:

Lets get rid of christianity as well as jesus was a terrorist :twisted:

Lets get rid of all humans. :twisted:

Crimadella
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jan 2019
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,644
Location: Warner Robins, Ga

24 Mar 2019, 8:47 pm

I wish there was a god, we could sure use the help. How about we erase every person that has committed any kind of crime from history. Kinda funny, they come up with one little domestic issue with MLK and we are suppose to forget about all of the good things he did? People are going insane, riddled with contradictions. These people that act like their s**t don't stink say some of the most hateful things about anyone they disagree with, they preach kindness yet spew hate. I wish we could just start kicking them out of the country, I know, I know, we can't do that.

TW1ZTY
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,115
Location: The US of freakin A <_<

24 Mar 2019, 9:00 pm

You know, I really hate it whenever people say "they're only human" as an excuse for whatever bad things a big important person does. Nobody ever uses that excuse for the nobodies like us when we screw up.

Why aren't famous people held to that same standard? Because they're human and humans aren't human? :roll:

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

24 Mar 2019, 9:13 pm

No, MLK Day should not be scrapped. Even if Abernathy's charges were true, King's contribution to bringing the ideal of American liberty closer to real life outshines his alleged infidelities.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Antrax
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,639
Location: west coast

24 Mar 2019, 10:20 pm

I'm not a fan of re-legislating historical figures, and while this doesn't apply to the charges of against King, I really dislike applying modern standards to historical figures.

No one would tear down statues of Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great for any atrocities they committed. Similarly we don't need to do away with the Jefferson Memorial or the Washington monument because they were slave-owners.

King's day should not be undone because of an unproven charges from 70 years ago.

_________________
"Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power."

Crimadella
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jan 2019
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,644
Location: Warner Robins, Ga

24 Mar 2019, 10:33 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:

What are you saying, one report of a domestic issues erases every bit of good the guy ever did? He didn't rape anybody, he got in one fight with a woman, that's a good enough reason to condemn him completely? Good god, he didn't beat her to a bloody pulp, think you could be blowing this way out of proportion, maybe? If this were to happen to us, we may spend one night in a jail cell, hardly a reason to demonize an extremely important and respectable guy that did a lot of good for this country.

BenderRodriguez
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,343

25 Mar 2019, 3:55 am

Is the day supposed to celebrate his achievements as a Civil Rights activist or his personal life?

If it's the second, then we might as well do away with all statues and monuments because no great artist or historical figure will pass the test. It's strange and unreasonable to expect people who achieved great things to have no personal failures or faults.

_________________
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley

BenderRodriguez
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,343

25 Mar 2019, 4:05 am

TW1ZTY wrote:

Why aren't famous people held to that same standard? Because they're human and humans aren't human? :roll:

I think a lot of "famous people" (I'm talking here about real achievements, not celebrities) are actually held to a much higher standard than the rest of us and some people even claim these achievements shouldn't be recognised as such due to someone's personal faults. Personally, I see the two as separate and have no intention of throwing out my books and music collection just because a lot of great artists had a less than perfect character. I have no problem admiring and appreciating their art, even when I don't feel the same way about their personal life.

_________________
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley

naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

25 Mar 2019, 5:45 am

"Having infidelities" (cheating on his wife with consenting adults) is something I have seen discretely whispered about in print before. But at least you don't hear about MLK sexually assaulting people like Weinstein, or Cosby.

But even if you did then it still wouldn't be enough to undo MLK day, because of the importance of what MLK achieved to reforming American society. And if you did get rid of the holiday then you would also have to get rid of Presidents day and etc.

Which is, I suppose, the OP's point. We are now getting into a kind of "social justice gridlock". Every figure in history who did something great to right wrong A, was guilty of perpetrating wrong B, and every figure who crusaded against wrong B, was guilty of wrong C, and etc. Its a circular firing squad leaving no heroes standing. So the way that were going we are not gonna have any heroes left. Its an interesting point.

You just have to be generous when judging our ancestors. You have to get your inspiration where you can, and maybe not look too hard into the gift horse's mouth.

Often the same person was both an inflicter, AND a healer, of the same injury (when judged by today's standards). Righted wrong A, AND perped wrong A at the same time.

As soon as we Americans won our independence from Britain a group of merchants and local pols gathered in NYC to discuss pressuring the govt of the New Republic to ban all immigration of Jews to the then new USA, and to "keep this contagion from our shores".

But the father of our country laid down the law when he spoke before the group- gave them a tongue lashing- and stated "this new Republic will never lend its hand to bigotry".

That quote is enshrined on a wall today in the National Holocaust Museum in Washington DC.

If you're an American - and you ponder the words for a minute- you get a patriotic tear to your eye and lump to your throat.

But if you're an American -and you ponder the words for two minutes- it dawns on you that "hey...that same George Washington guy who said that - kept a 100 africans as slaves!"

What can one say? Like I said above sometimes its best not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

25 Mar 2019, 5:49 am

SaveFerris wrote:

Lets get rid of christianity as well as jesus was a terrorist :twisted:

Even before Jesus you had Samson.

Samson was history's first "suicide bomber". And he managed to achieve that distinction even before they invented chemical explosives (gunpowder and dynamite were still centuries into the future). He just used his muscles to pull the building down!

TW1ZTY
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,115
Location: The US of freakin A <_<

25 Mar 2019, 6:04 am

Crimadella wrote:

TW1ZTY wrote:

Maybe.

Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ]

Jump to:

Should MLK day be scrapped in the #MeToo era? Post Reply New Topic

Should MLK day be scrapped in the #MeToo era?