Page 1 of 3 [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Hsingai
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 17 Dec 2018
Age: 1938
Gender: Male
Posts: 77
Location: gulfport, MS

24 Mar 2019, 11:55 pm

Anyone else have problems coping with a post truth society?

I knew the Bush administration believes that if they can get enough people to buy it then it becomes the truth but I never actually met one until now.


_________________
I must insist that you call me Mahatma so that people won't believe it.


Biscuitman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,219
Location: Dunking jammy dodgers

26 Mar 2019, 8:14 am

I would advise you don't go onto the politics or news sections of WP if you get frustrated with people pushing misinformation!



Prometheus18
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,866

26 Mar 2019, 8:21 am

When people talk about the "post-truth" era we've been living in since 2016 or so, it always makes me smile. Did they seriously believe that Obama, Bush, Clinton, Blair, Sarkozy, Major and Thatcher were honest? :lol: :lol: :lol:



Biscuitman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,219
Location: Dunking jammy dodgers

26 Mar 2019, 8:31 am

I see 'post truth' as referring to the world that has come about since social media became more prevalent, as the manner in which it infiltrates society is different

It doesn't mean at all that media and politicians were an honest bunch prior to this.



Dear_one
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2008
Age: 72
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,142
Location: Where the Great Plains meet the Northern Pines

26 Mar 2019, 2:21 pm

Yes. I used to believe that logic was the most powerful argument, but now the emotional tricksters rule.



ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 740
Location: New Jersey, USA

26 Mar 2019, 2:34 pm

First time I've ever heard the phrase "post-truth."

OP, in your own words, could you explain it?



Prometheus18
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,866

26 Mar 2019, 2:38 pm

"Post-truth" is an ideological term which functions as a catch-all for trends the speaker, whatever his political persuasions, happens to dislike.



Hsingai
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 17 Dec 2018
Age: 1938
Gender: Male
Posts: 77
Location: gulfport, MS

26 Mar 2019, 2:54 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
First time I've ever heard the phrase "post-truth."

OP, in your own words, could you explain it?


Post truth refers to the world where people don't recognize any difference between fact and a popular fiction.


A Bush administration aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality. ... And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do'


_________________
I must insist that you call me Mahatma so that people won't believe it.


Hsingai
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 17 Dec 2018
Age: 1938
Gender: Male
Posts: 77
Location: gulfport, MS

26 Mar 2019, 3:06 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
When people talk about the "post-truth" era we've been living in since 2016 or so, it always makes me smile. Did they seriously believe that Obama, Bush, Clinton, Blair, Sarkozy, Major and Thatcher were honest? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I consider the post-truth era to start with the Bush jr. Administration. As it was said by others, Bush wasn't lying because he had no concept that facts are different from fiction and to lie you have to know that what your saying isn't true.

Obama and Clinton may have used misinformation but they know that it was misinformation

AS far as I know Blair was part of the faith-based community. I don't know who Sarkozy, Major and Thatcher are.


_________________
I must insist that you call me Mahatma so that people won't believe it.


Last edited by Hsingai on 26 Mar 2019, 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hsingai
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 17 Dec 2018
Age: 1938
Gender: Male
Posts: 77
Location: gulfport, MS

26 Mar 2019, 3:07 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
"Post-truth" is an ideological term which functions as a catch-all for trends the speaker, whatever his political persuasions, happens to dislike.

Let me guess, you're a proud member of the faith based community?


_________________
I must insist that you call me Mahatma so that people won't believe it.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,548
Location: Stendec

26 Mar 2019, 3:13 pm

When did this "Post-Truth" era begin?

Hint: It was way before the following quote was made...

Paul Joseph Goebbels wrote:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
Paul Joseph Goebbels (1897 – 1945) was a German Nazi politician and Reich Minister of Propaganda of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. He was one of Adolf Hitler's close associates and most devoted followers, and was known for his skills in public speaking and his deep, virulent antisemitism, which was evident in his publicly voiced views. He advocated progressively harsher discrimination, including the extermination of the Jews in the Holocaust.

But you would have to look even earlier to find the beginning of the "Post-Truth Society"...
Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:
“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”
... or even earlier ...
Quote:
Trust is very important, parents always tell their kids never to lie or they will loose their trust. Plato disagrees, with what most parents say to their children. He states there are two different kinds of lies, ones that are always improper to tell (True falsehoods). Plato approved of lying when telling the truth is the wrong thing to do. Plato thinks that it is never right or just to do evil or harm to anyone, and if you have to lie to protect someone then it is a just thing to do.
A "Post-Truth Society"? There was never a "Society of Truth" in all of recorded history!


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,548
Location: Stendec

26 Mar 2019, 3:15 pm

Hsingai wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
"Post-truth" is an ideological term which functions as a catch-all for trends the speaker, whatever his political persuasions, happens to dislike.
Let me guess, you're a proud member of the faith based community?
Probably not ... he's likely just someone who hasn't bought into the current "Cult of Personality" that surrounds Donald Trump.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


Hsingai
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 17 Dec 2018
Age: 1938
Gender: Male
Posts: 77
Location: gulfport, MS

26 Mar 2019, 3:22 pm

Fnord wrote:
When did this "Post-Truth" era begin?


When people started to believe "Truth is a set of lies agreed upon.”

2016 is just when people forgot their was a time when truth once referred to objective reality.


_________________
I must insist that you call me Mahatma so that people won't believe it.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,548
Location: Stendec

26 Mar 2019, 3:30 pm

Hsingai wrote:
Fnord wrote:
When did this "Post-Truth" era begin?
When people started to believe "Truth is a set of lies agreed upon.” 2016 is just when people forgot their was a time when truth once referred to objective reality.
Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:
The surest way to remain poor is to be an honest man.
Napoleon lived from 1769 AD to 1821 AD. Are you saying that everyone was completely honest before the mid-18th century? What about the aforementioned Platonic Era (427 BC to 347 BC)? This was roughly 2200 years before the Napoleon, by the way.



Hsingai
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 17 Dec 2018
Age: 1938
Gender: Male
Posts: 77
Location: gulfport, MS

26 Mar 2019, 3:32 pm

Fnord wrote:
Hsingai wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
"Post-truth" is an ideological term which functions as a catch-all for trends the speaker, whatever his political persuasions, happens to dislike.
Let me guess, you're a proud member of the faith based community?
Probably not ... he's likely just someone who hasn't bought into the current "Cult of Personality" that surrounds Donald Trump.

You mean he doesn't believe that there is a Cult of Personality that surrounds Trump?


_________________
I must insist that you call me Mahatma so that people won't believe it.


Hsingai
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 17 Dec 2018
Age: 1938
Gender: Male
Posts: 77
Location: gulfport, MS

26 Mar 2019, 3:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
Hsingai wrote:
Fnord wrote:
When did this "Post-Truth" era begin?
When people started to believe "Truth is a set of lies agreed upon.” 2016 is just when people forgot their was a time when truth once referred to objective reality.
Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:
The surest way to remain poor is to be an honest man.
Napoleon lived from 1769 AD to 1821 AD. Are you saying that everyone was completely honest before the mid-18th century? What about the aforementioned Platonic Era (427 BC to 347 BC)? This was roughly 2200 years before the Napoleon, by the way.

I'm not say people were completely honest before the Post Truth world, I'm just saying that people knew that they were being dishonest. They didn't believe that Alternative facts where just as scientifically valid as true facts. Pluto said it was ok to lie, not that it wasn't really lying because the children didn't know it was a falsehood.


_________________
I must insist that you call me Mahatma so that people won't believe it.