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Zakatar
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15 May 2019, 3:16 am

I've never been much of a fan of person-first language, but I respect whatever opinions others in our community have.


MrsPeel wrote:
I tend to think that the more we can be open about calling ourselves autistic (especially those of us on the milder end), the less it can be used as a slur.
Maybe :?


Let's hope. In college I was part of a student club for those with any kind of disabilities and it was the only place on campus where I openly identified as "autistic". They still treated me like a human and It was one of the best things about my college experience. They got just as annoyed as me when "autistic" was used as a slur and hated Autism $peaks just as much as, if not more than, me.


cyberdad wrote:
I Agree with your post AS.

However, I think language is still a strong factor when unintentional labels are applied and false semantic meaning attached to labels (even if it never the intention of those who originally created the labels).

It's healthier to take it out of the vocabulary altogether


In the olden days (aka a few years ago before the DSM-V came out), I definitely noticed, and got annoyed at, people with Aspergers acting superior toward others on the spectrum, which is a big part of why I'm a huge fan of how the DSM-V changed the diagnosis (still not a fan of the nonsense "levels" though). I remember a friend of a friend who had aspergers asserting that it and autism were completely different things, and I got seriously annoyed since I saw myself, being on the spectrum as well, as an equal. My initial diagnosis was PDD-NOS.


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cyberdad
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15 May 2019, 4:09 am

Zakatar wrote:
I remember a friend of a friend who had aspergers asserting that it and autism were completely different things, a


Yes I remember half the WP traffic in 2013 was "how Autism and Aspergers are not the same thing". I think Yale School of Psychology even came out with publications demonstrating how the original diagnosis had a neurological basis relating to motor neuron control among other things.

All it boiled down to was a perception that mainstream folks had a negative perception of autism so they wanted to stay "Aspies" as it didn't carry the same stigma.



CockneyRebel
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15 May 2019, 12:36 pm

I really don't care one way or another.


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MagicMeerkat
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16 May 2019, 8:07 pm

I am an autistic autist with autism. I like to autism autistically.

But anyway. You wouldn't call a woman a "person with female-ness" or an African-American a "person with black-ness". It's okay to say "diabetic" or "epileptic" and those are ten times worse than autism. How come we don't say "Person with diabetes" or "person with epilepsy"?


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Zakatar
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17 May 2019, 12:41 am

MagicMeerkat wrote:
I am an autistic autist with autism. I like to autism autistically.

But anyway. You wouldn't call a woman a "person with female-ness" or an African-American a "person with black-ness". It's okay to say "diabetic" or "epileptic" and those are ten times worse than autism. How come we don't say "Person with diabetes" or "person with epilepsy"?


My thoughts exactly!


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cyberdad
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17 May 2019, 2:45 am

Well I guess people change between 2013 and 2019



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17 May 2019, 3:54 am

cyberdad wrote:
Well I guess people change between 2013 and 2019


Mostly different people posting then and now.

The DSM came out in 2013 now it has been in effect 6 years. Back then there was this idea that the DSM was going to "come to their senses" and revert the decision. Now it is pretty obvious that is not going to happen.

I joined WP in August 2013. I never saw that the majority of "Aspies" identified that way because they were ableist towered their fellow "lower functioning" autistics. There has always been aspie supremacist and NT's are stupid sheep threads and they are always heavily criticized.

These things tend to come and go in waves.


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17 May 2019, 4:25 am

We should write a "history of the online autistic community"

The WP version of a "History of Hogwarts"



Mona Pereth
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19 May 2019, 10:05 am

Re: "person with autism" vs. "autistic person": I use whichever one flows better in a given sentence. In most (though not all) contexts that would be "autistic person."

"Person with autism" often sounds clunky, especially in possessive form, e.g. "a person with autism's family" vs. "an autistic person's family."

But there are other contexts where person-first language flows more smoothly, e.g. "people with autism, ADHD, or other developmental differences."

Regarding the philosophical differences that seem to underly the quarrel between people with person-first language-ism and adjectivistic people: I'm inclined to agree with the adjectivistic people that autism is not detachable from the rest of one's personality.


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Trogluddite
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19 May 2019, 11:39 am

^ Exactly as Mona said; a mild preference for the adjective forms semantically, but I have enough problem procrastinating about the words I use without having yet another prescriptive grammar rule to follow.

From what I can gather from talking to people with a range of different disabilities, there are few, if any, disability communities where "person-first" is preferred by the majority. But it would be wrong to think that this implies an "identity-first" ideology - ease of using the language, often with some resentment at rules being imposed from outside their communities, seems to be the most common motivation.

There are far better ways to determine whether someone is autism-friendly or not than analysing their grammar.


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SaveFerris
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19 May 2019, 12:19 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Advocacy is great for Aspergers but for autistic children and adults they rely on us NTs and we are the ones who decide for them.


Are you NT?


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19 May 2019, 1:23 pm

I think everyone should mind their business and not police how other people define themselves.


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20 May 2019, 2:16 am

SaveFerris wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Advocacy is great for Aspergers but for autistic children and adults they rely on us NTs and we are the ones who decide for them.


Are you NT?


Well I thought I was subclinical for a while but I walk like a duck and quack like a duck so I guess I am one...



SaveFerris
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20 May 2019, 4:07 am

cyberdad wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Advocacy is great for Aspergers but for autistic children and adults they rely on us NTs and we are the ones who decide for them.


Are you NT?


Well I thought I was subclinical for a while but I walk like a duck and quack like a duck so I guess I am one...


Are you in a position where you don't need a Dx , don't care , or are there other factors stopping you?


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cyberdad
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20 May 2019, 4:13 am

Don't need one...operate pretty efficiently in the NT world although I am a bit of dick...