Adult ASD diagnosis &PTSD overlap -resources, articles etc?

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Amity
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31 May 2019, 11:58 am

I'm hoping to better understand the presentation of both, I've done some research on the internet but I'm finding it difficult to pull the two apart based on what I've found so far...The links I've found to articles in old threads seemed promising but aren't working (404).
It seems likely that I have both and identifying the difference between the expression of the two in me is melting my brain.
Help appreciated with this.



Magna
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31 May 2019, 12:32 pm

I have both. Diagnosed with ASD first, but just recently PTSD. You have good questions. The problem I've found is that the autism therapist I went to is specialized in ASD but not PTSD. The PTSD specialized therapist I've seen recently doesn't have experience working with ASD. So all in all, there were things that the ASD therapist didn't "get" or wasn't able to help with and vice versa for the PTSD therapist.... :( Between the two though, I would much rather see the ASD therapist if I could, but the therapist has a long waiting list and isn't local.



Deepthought 7
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31 May 2019, 12:45 pm

Amity wrote:
I'm hoping to better understand the presentation of both, I've done some research on the internet but I'm finding it difficult to pull the two apart based on what I've found so far...The links I've found to articles in old threads seemed promising but aren't working (404).
It seems likely that I have both and identifying the difference between the expression of the two in me is melting my brain.
Help appreciated with this.

Might the following link help perhaps?

https://www.wikihow.com/Distinguish-Bet ... and-Autism


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StarTrekker
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01 Jun 2019, 1:22 am

I have both as well, and you're right that teasing some of the symptoms apart can be tricky. For instance, I've had a severe startle reflex my whole life, and I don't know if it's because of my PTSD (as the events that caused it started in early childhood) or because of my autism, or if one exacerbates the other. Same with meltdowns. Sometimes I have an autistic meltdown that was set off by a PTSD trigger. Last week during therapy I came very close to having a meltdown because I was being triggered by the noises made by other people outside the room (being in an enclosed space and hearing strangers outside is extremely upsetting to me because my mind starts racing and I'm terrified that they're going to burst in and attack me, even though my logical brain knows that isn't rational.) I also find that the same tools I use for calming myself after a meltdown -- typically stim toys, music, a familiar and comforting smell (I'm fond of lavender) and a dark, quiet sheltered place under a blanket or piece of furniture -- work just as well for calming myself after my anxiety/intrusive thoughts/panic attacks etc. have been triggered.

I suppose the long and short of it is that it doesn't really matter which symptoms are a result of PTSD and which of autism; as long as you have methods of coping with them that work for you, that's the important thing.


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Amity
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01 Jun 2019, 5:25 am

Magna wrote:
I have both. Diagnosed with ASD first, but just recently PTSD. You have good questions. The problem I've found is that the autism therapist I went to is specialized in ASD but not PTSD. The PTSD specialized therapist I've seen recently doesn't have experience working with ASD. So all in all, there were things that the ASD therapist didn't "get" or wasn't able to help with and vice versa for the PTSD therapist.... :( Between the two though, I would much rather see the ASD therapist if I could, but the therapist has a long waiting list and isn't local.

Considering the low population Im lucky to find a therapist specialising in PTSD, it's been an eye opener, but ASD is not a specialism of theirs.
It brings me back to an old question, which parts of me have environmental causes and which parts are my natural way of being.



MrsPeel
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01 Jun 2019, 5:49 am

Yeah, I've had a PTSD-type problem the last few months (not diagnosed but that seemed to be the best fit).

Because I'd only recently been diagnosed with ASD, for a long time I thought that was the problem. It took me a few months to work out that it was not normal, even for me, to be getting triggered so very easily. Nor was it normal to get stuck in a state of hyperarousal for days on end.

My feeling is that the nervous system dysregulation inherent with my ASD made me more vulnerable to developing PTSD - and also made it hard to distinguish between the two conditions. I just know that the ASD alone was much easier to manage than the ASD + PTSD, which led to severe meltdowns over what would normally be minor irritants.



Amity
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01 Jun 2019, 6:06 am

Deepthought 7 wrote:
Amity wrote:
I'm hoping to better understand the presentation of both, I've done some research on the internet but I'm finding it difficult to pull the two apart based on what I've found so far...The links I've found to articles in old threads seemed promising but aren't working (404).
It seems likely that I have both and identifying the difference between the expression of the two in me is melting my brain.
Help appreciated with this.

Might the following link help perhaps?

https://www.wikihow.com/Distinguish-Bet ... and-Autism

Yes it did help, thank you!
It's taking me longer than usual to process and apply new information.



magz
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01 Jun 2019, 6:10 am

Quite a lot of my therapy is about disentangling and telling apart, what is my in-born neurology (HSP+AS) and can't be changed and what stemmed from my experiences and can change.


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Amity
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01 Jun 2019, 6:27 am

StarTrekker wrote:
I have both as well, and you're right that teasing some of the symptoms apart can be tricky. For instance, I've had a severe startle reflex my whole life, and I don't know if it's because of my PTSD (as the events that caused it started in early childhood) or because of my autism, or if one exacerbates the other. Same with meltdowns. Sometimes I have an autistic meltdown that was set off by a PTSD trigger. Last week during therapy I came very close to having a meltdown because I was being triggered by the noises made by other people outside the room (being in an enclosed space and hearing strangers outside is extremely upsetting to me because my mind starts racing and I'm terrified that they're going to burst in and attack me, even though my logical brain knows that isn't rational.) I also find that the same tools I use for calming myself after a meltdown -- typically stim toys, music, a familiar and comforting smell (I'm fond of lavender) and a dark, quiet sheltered place under a blanket or piece of furniture -- work just as well for calming myself after my anxiety/intrusive thoughts/panic attacks etc. have been triggered.

I suppose the long and short of it is that it doesn't really matter which symptoms are a result of PTSD and which of autism; as long as you have methods of coping with them that work for you, that's the important thing.

This is helpful, thank you for the examples. I may have to accept that the two are very intertwined and that it might not be possible to distinguish between them. Same as with you, the traumas go back to early childhood and unfortunately have continued since.

These experiences would likely have caused PTSD in most people, but for folks on the spectrum there seems to be an extra layer of trauma linked to the individuals expression of autism, eg social communication and sensory difficulties.

Like the white pain I see when im stuck in hyperarousal and a loud sudden noise happens. Its almost like a whole body electric shock and I see a white flash for a short period. It feels different to the startle response I had this morning when I knew the neighbours cat would jump from the window ledge down in front of me when I opened the back door, I still jumped out of my skin when he did it though.



kraftiekortie
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01 Jun 2019, 6:54 am

Autism, usually, is exclusively a neurological disorder that you’re born with. Environment could play a role in the exacerbation of it.

Obviously, you are not born with PTSD. Though, even womb conditions might play a role in it. It’s 100% caused by environmental factors, though you might be born with the predisposition toward reacting to stressors in a PTSD way.

Perhaps, one could react in a autistic way because of PTSD. Or react in a PTSD way because of autism. It’s hard to tell the difference.

I feel like I was born with my autism....but I feel like my exquisite tendencies to react to my environment made it worse in my preschool years. The decrease in my exquisite reactions to my environment, perhaps, paved the way for my decrease in symptoms around age 5, and my emergence from the “fog” and my state of total fear and dread. Plus a general “maturation,” overall



magz
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01 Jun 2019, 7:03 am

Kraftie, do you remember anything of the "state of total fear and dread"?
I know you were nonverbal until 5.5 - was it connected?
Do you think someone could have helped you back then?
Don't answer if the questions trigger you.


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kraftiekortie
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01 Jun 2019, 7:12 am

I remember just being in a state of total fear and dread.

I used to throw up all the time.

I felt “stuck,” unable to do anything about my state of fear and dread. I did not have any means or knowledge to do so.

Other people “paved the way,” so to speak. They provided positive experiences when I was 5. I loved the trampoline. My desire to go on the trampoline “made me” be social, because I had to ask to use the trampoline. I guess the speech therapy helped in this regard. Other people “freed” me, so to speak.

Think about Plato’s “Allegory of a Cave.” I had to “see the light” gradually. I could successfully be pushed to “see the light.”

I actually acquired speech while I was in a “research camp” which was studying autism in children. My mother found this place, and thought it might be a place which could help me.



magz
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01 Jun 2019, 7:29 am

Thanks.
So good experiences seem to have enormous effect - not only the bad ones.
You went quite an interesting way from severe, nonverbal, classic autism to fairly good functioning in the society. Honestly, your story fascinates me.


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01 Jun 2019, 7:50 am

I have PTSD and ASD. They kind of feed off each other. I think my PTSD has made me less social than I’d already be. Due to this, people probably think that I’m more autistic than I actually am.

I find my PTSD much more difficult to deal with than my ASD.

I can remember having constant feelings of anxiety and dread from when I was a small child. It just got further compounded by other traumas that have come up in my life.

Maybe I would’ve been less susceptible to developing PTSD in the first place if I hadn’t had ASD. I’ve always been very sensitive.


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kraftiekortie
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01 Jun 2019, 8:10 am

I would say part of it was because I trusted that I wasn’t going to be harmed, and that people allowed me to express myself without repercussions.

Also: the neurological aspects diminished with age.

I still had symptoms after age 5....but they were more of an “aspergian” nature. I threw tantrums. I had no idea of other peoples’ feelings, nor did I care that much. I was self-absorbed. I couldn’t make friends because I had to have everything my way. And I didn’t bother to listen.

I was disordered even in a special school setting.

I feel part of my “emergence” was plain dumb luck.



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01 Jun 2019, 8:49 am

MrsPeel wrote:
Yeah, I've had a PTSD-type problem the last few months (not diagnosed but that seemed to be the best fit).

Because I'd only recently been diagnosed with ASD, for a long time I thought that was the problem. It took me a few months to work out that it was not normal, even for me, to be getting triggered so very easily. Nor was it normal to get stuck in a state of hyperarousal for days on end.

My feeling is that the nervous system dysregulation inherent with my ASD made me more vulnerable to developing PTSD - and also made it hard to distinguish between the two conditions. I just know that the ASD alone was much easier to manage than the ASD + PTSD, which led to severe meltdowns over what would normally be minor irritants.


If you dont mind me asking, how did you find out that your nervous system was dysregulated?