Page 1 of 2 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,443
Location: Oz

08 Jun 2019, 12:58 am

Du Hast: The neo-Nazi anthem? I think not.
A critical analysis of the lyrics will show you why.

Quote:
Du
Du hast
Du hast mich
Du
Du hast
Du hast mich
Du
Du hast
Du hast mich
Du
Du hast
Du hast mich
Du
Du hast
Du hast mich
Du hast mich
Du hast mich gefragt
Du hast mich gefragt
Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt
Willst du bis der Tod uns scheidet
Treue sein für alle Tage
Nein
Nein
Willst du bis der Tod uns scheidet
Treue sein für alle Tage
Nein
Nein


This section asks the question: Will you be faithful for all time? Until death separates us?
This is in reference to the oath of allegiance which Hitler demanded as part of the Führerprinzip.

Quote:
The Führerprinzip [ˈfyːʀɐpʀɪnˌtsiːp] (About this soundlisten) (German for "leader principle") prescribed the fundamental basis of political authority in the governmental structures of the Third Reich. This principle can be most succinctly understood to mean that "the Führer's word is above all written law" and that governmental policies, decisions, and offices ought to work toward the realization of this end.[1] In actual political usage, it refers mainly to the practice of dictatorship within the ranks of a political party itself, and as such, it has become an earmark of political fascism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrerprinzip


The answer is a resounding NEIN!



Quote:
Du
Du hast
Du hast mich
Du
Du hast
Du hast mich
Du
Du hast
Du hast mich
Du
Du hast
Du hast mich
Willst du bis der Tod uns scheidet
Treue sein für alle Tage
Nein
Nein


Here it again asks if you will be faithful for all time until you die.
And once again a resounding NEIN!


Quote:
Willst du bis zum Tod, der scheidet
Sie lieben auch in schlechten Tagen
Nein
Nein


Will you be loyal unto death?
You will love even in bad times?
NEIN!
NEIN!
The bad times would be referring to the collapse of the German army and the inevitable defeat.

Quote:
Willst du bis der Tod uns scheidet
Treue sein
Nein
Nein


Will you be faithful unto death?
NEIN!
NEIN!

This song is a total renunciation of fascism, pure and simple.
Whilst the band has hinted at their political allegiance, I.E. their "heart is on the left", their intention seems to be to deliberately muddy their political position so as to not diminish their fan base which significantly includes Neo-Nazis.
Can you blame them for not letting their political views interfere with their profit margins after living under the constricted lifestyle imposed onto them as a result of Soviet occupation? 8O

Bottom line:
Rammstein's "Du Hast" is powerfully anti-fascist and those Neo-Nazis who embrace it as their anthem are not aware of the staggering irony they...errr...embrace. <guffaw> :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I have noticed that there has been a later attempt, presumably by Rammstein, to cover up the meaning of "Du Hast" through a re-writing of some of the lyrics to suggest it is a break-up love song.
Seriously guys?
Your audacity is breath-taking. <chuckle>

Now for your pleasure, and with the enlightenment of the true story behind the song, I give you: Du Hast by the sozialistisch und kapitalistisch band: Rammstein :!:
<a deafening applause can be heard, even by clueless Neo-Nazis> :mrgreen:


https://youtu.be/W3q8Od5qJio


_________________
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,406
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

08 Jun 2019, 4:35 am

Really? I thought it was supposed to be an ironic take on German marriage vows. :scratch:


_________________
I'll do graffiti if you sing to me in French
What are we doing here if romance isn't dead.


Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,617
Location: Aux Arcs

08 Jun 2019, 8:12 am

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/du-hast-du-hast.html


_________________
"Security is mostly a superstition.It does not exist in nature,nor do the children of men as a whole experience it.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.Life is either a daring adventure,or nothing." Helen Keller


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,443
Location: Oz

08 Jun 2019, 11:02 am

Misslizard wrote:
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/du-hast-du-hast.html


Quote:
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/du-hast-du-hast.html

Do you want to love her even in bad days
Unto the death of the vagina?


:lmao:
And there have been other Englisch re-writings of the song.
As I said, there seems to be some sort of cover-up. <chuckle>

Here is the translation without the repetition:

Du hast mich = You got me
Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt = You asked me and I did not say anything
Willst du bis der Tod uns scheidet? = Do you want until death separates us?
Treue sein für alle Tage? = Be faithful for all days?

There is no reference to a woman or vagina in the original German wording. <chuckle> :mrgreen:
The weirdness only begins when the words are erroneously translated.
Or it might simply be a re-writing of the lyrics for the different Englisch speaking market.

However, :mrgreen:
If I were cynical I would say it was a deliberate deception/misrepresentation.
Psst, I am cynical. :wink:
It is quite possible that the embracing of the song by NeoNazis was a welcomed but initially unexpected unintended phenomenon.

As I have said previously, I believe Rammstein didn't want to stop the Neo-Nazis from buying their CDs, hence the elaborate deception and additional campaign of misinformation, imo.

And it even goes deeper still.
Apparently, Rammstein "is known for playing with words".
Or so some say.
Could it simply be a case of muddying the waters? :scratch:

But it still doesn't end there.
Just Google and you will find at least 4 different Englisch translations. 8O



Here is a German to Englisch translator which can easily be used to verify what I have said about the original German lyrics:
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... P1m5DH8U4Q

<a period of time elapses>
I just found the Englisch translation of the original German lyrics on the net:
Quote:
(4x)
You
You have
You have me

You
You have
You have me
You have me
You asked me
You asked me
You asked me
And I said nothing

(Chorus 1) (2x)
Do you want until death does you part
Be faithful all your days
NO! (2x)

(2x)
You
You have
You have me

You
You have
You have me
You have me
You asked me
You asked me
You asked me
And I said nothing https://lyricstranslate.com/en/du-hast-du-hast.html


And here is one of the re-writings of the original lyrics for the Englisch speaking market:
Quote:
[Pre-Refrain]
You, you hate
You hate me
You, you hate
You hate me
You, you hate
You hate me
You, you hate
You hate me

[Refrain]
You, you hate
You hate me, you hate me
You hate me to say, you hate me to say
You hate me to say and I did not obey

[Verse]
Will you until death does sever
Be upright to her forever?
Never, never!
Will you until death does sever
Be upright to her forever?
Never, never! https://genius.com/Rammstein-du-hast-en ... ion-lyrics


Here is yet another version of the song which alludes to the vagina:
Quote:
This is the version of Du hast that appeared on the American version of Sehnsucht.
LyricsEdit

You
You hate
You hate me
You hate me to say
You hate me to say
And I did not obey

Will you until death does sever
Be upright to her forever

Never

Will you 'til death be her rider
Her lover too, to stay inside her

Never
https://rammstein.fandom.com/wiki/Du_ha ... sh_version)


I am too exhausted to find the fourth version.
Let me just say that I am convinced the Rammstein guys are tricky little buggers. <chuckle> :mrgreen:


_________________
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,406
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

08 Jun 2019, 11:10 am

I actually do love how ambiguous the song is. It appeals to my warped sense of humour.

I speak enough German to have realised that they were playing with words the first time I heard it.


_________________
I'll do graffiti if you sing to me in French
What are we doing here if romance isn't dead.


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,443
Location: Oz

08 Jun 2019, 11:29 am

hurtloam wrote:
I actually do love how ambiguous the song is. It appeals to my warped sense of humour.

I speak enough German to have realised that they were playing with words the first time I heard it.


No surprise that I have a background in German (also?)
It was my first language, after all, but only at a very young age.

The first time I came across the song was in the movie: "The Matrix".
Luved it from day one.
When I eventually looked at the lyrics in depth, I didn't see much wordplay myself.
It was quite obvious to me that "Du Hast", at least, was straightforwardly an anti-fascist song.

In addition to knowing ein bisschen Deutsch, I also have read a lot about the history of WWII.
And while I don't want The Walrus to call me pretentious, I do have a natural ability in connecting various pieces of information into a cohesive whole, hence the connection between the song Du hast and the reference to the Fuhrerprinzip was quite obvious to me.
I will bet your left testicle that I am right here. :mrgreen:

Could it possibly be that the reason you felt the song was ambiguous is that you, like most people, didn't have the additional historic information to put the pieces together? :scratch: :mrgreen:


_________________
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Last edited by Pepe on 08 Jun 2019, 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

lostonearth35
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jan 2010
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,686
Location: In my own little world. :)

08 Jun 2019, 11:38 am

Ad nauseam: Latin expression for something that is repeated over and over until it becomes nauseating, boring, and/or annoying. e.g. this song has lyrics that are very ad nauseam.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,388
Location: temperate zone

08 Jun 2019, 11:45 am

Never heard,nor heard of, the song, nor this contraversay about it before.



But every translation seems to agree that the singer is refusing to take a vow, or refusing to take an oath of allegiance demanded by the person he is addressing.

So it is the polar opposite of a pledge of allegiance.

So I guess that would count it out as being a fitting "anthem" for any cause- except maybe for pure anarchy.

So yeah, I don't see how it could have been meant as an anthem for the Alt Right. If the Alt Right is latching on to it then they just aren't paying attention to the lyrics.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,443
Location: Oz

08 Jun 2019, 12:03 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
Ad nauseam: Latin expression for something that is repeated over and over until it becomes nauseating, boring, and/or annoying. e.g. this song has lyrics that are very ad nauseam.


Not to me. :mrgreen:
May I suggest I take over your listening of the song and add it to my own?
I have it on CD in the car and can't get enough of it.
Perhaps it is a sort of musical autistic stimming for me? :scratch:

What I luv about the song is its strong gravelly vocal sound and the musical beat is reminiscent of an Amerikan Indian war dance.
German is a very powerful language and even more so when it is sung in that very deep voice.
Might be a male thingy. <shrug>

Have a listen to E Nomine - Vater Unser. The Latin sound good in that deep voice also:


https://youtu.be/i2qzpERZGTw


_________________
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


SaveFerris
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 3 Sep 2016
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,955
Location: UK

08 Jun 2019, 12:11 pm

Dissect this song next Pepe


_________________
R Tape loading error, 0:1

Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury. Raise the double standard


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,443
Location: Oz

08 Jun 2019, 12:14 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Never heard,nor heard of, the song, nor this contraversay about it before.



But every translation seems to agree that the singer is refusing to take a vow, or refusing to take an oath of allegiance demanded by the person he is addressing.

So it is the polar opposite of a pledge of allegiance.

So I guess that would count it out as being a fitting "anthem" for any cause- except maybe for pure anarchy.

So yeah, I don't see how it could have been meant as an anthem for the Alt Right. If the Alt Right is latching on to it then they just aren't paying attention to the lyrics.


It's in German.
It is deep and menacing in vocal tone.
And don't neo-Nazis gravitate towards heavy-metal / industrial-rock music?
Perfect for neo-Nazis, except for the lyrics, unfortunately for them. <chuckle> :mrgreen:

The alt. right aren't what you would call a fountain of intellectual...err...intellect.
Most would probably have to have it explained to them...the significance of the original lyrics.
Best to let them have their fun even if they do miss the irony. :mrgreen:


_________________
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,443
Location: Oz

08 Jun 2019, 12:24 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
Dissect this song next Pepe



I'll take a look at it tomorow...err...today.
It is past 3 in the morning here. :mrgreen:

Quote:
Raum der Zeit
Wizo
Ich bin schwul, ich bin jüdisch und ein Kommunist dazu
Ich bin schwarz und behindert, doch genauso Mensch wie du
Ich bin hochintelligent, und doch so doof wie Sauerkraut
Ich bin schön, ich bin hässlich, ich bin fett und gut gebaut
Es gibt nichts (nichts)
Nichts was dich besser macht als mich
Denn auch du hast deine Fehler, deine Fehler so wie ich
Und die Fehler sind nix falsches, sie gehören zu dir und mir
Und wenn du 's nicht auf die Reihe kriegst, kann niemand was dafür
Du bist einer von Milliarden und das musst du akzeptieren
Du bist einer von Milliarden Ärschen auf der Welt
Deine Werte, deine Normen, die Moral und das Gesetz
Sind entbehrlich und ersetzbar, überflüssiges Geschwätz
Heute gültig, morgen nichtig, übermorgen umgekehrt
Was hier richtig oder wichtig, ist woanders ohne Wert
Deine Götter, deine Kirchen, Glauben, Beten, Religion
Heute heilig, morgen Frevel, übermorgen blanker Hohn
Und das Geld und der Ruhm, und die Unvergänglichkeit
Sind bei näherem Betrachten
Für 'n Arsch
Du bist nicht der Mittelpunkt des Universums
Du bist nur ein Arsch im Raum der Zeit
A E D C D C A G, A E D
A E D C D C A G, A E D
Du bist nicht der Mittelpunkt des Universums
Du bist nur ein Arsch im Raum der Zeit
Fick dich!


_________________
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


SaveFerris
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 3 Sep 2016
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,955
Location: UK

08 Jun 2019, 12:29 pm

Pepe wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Dissect this song next Pepe



I'll take a look at it tomorow...err...today.
It is past 3 in the morning here. :mrgreen:

Quote:
Raum der Zeit
Wizo
Ich bin schwul, ich bin jüdisch und ein Kommunist dazu
Ich bin schwarz und behindert, doch genauso Mensch wie du
Ich bin hochintelligent, und doch so doof wie Sauerkraut
Ich bin schön, ich bin hässlich, ich bin fett und gut gebaut
Es gibt nichts (nichts)
Nichts was dich besser macht als mich
Denn auch du hast deine Fehler, deine Fehler so wie ich
Und die Fehler sind nix falsches, sie gehören zu dir und mir
Und wenn du 's nicht auf die Reihe kriegst, kann niemand was dafür
Du bist einer von Milliarden und das musst du akzeptieren
Du bist einer von Milliarden Ärschen auf der Welt
Deine Werte, deine Normen, die Moral und das Gesetz
Sind entbehrlich und ersetzbar, überflüssiges Geschwätz
Heute gültig, morgen nichtig, übermorgen umgekehrt
Was hier richtig oder wichtig, ist woanders ohne Wert
Deine Götter, deine Kirchen, Glauben, Beten, Religion
Heute heilig, morgen Frevel, übermorgen blanker Hohn
Und das Geld und der Ruhm, und die Unvergänglichkeit
Sind bei näherem Betrachten
Für 'n Arsch
Du bist nicht der Mittelpunkt des Universums
Du bist nur ein Arsch im Raum der Zeit
A E D C D C A G, A E D
A E D C D C A G, A E D
Du bist nicht der Mittelpunkt des Universums
Du bist nur ein Arsch im Raum der Zeit
Fick dich!


It's a great song imo and maybe right up your street


_________________
R Tape loading error, 0:1

Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury. Raise the double standard


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,542
Location: I'm on the streets like curbs

08 Jun 2019, 6:32 pm

Rammstein have commented on their leftist leanings in interviews, at this point it's just flat-out dishonest to insist they're Nazis.


_________________
My birth certificate reads: "Earth's most descriptive MC"
My death certificate'll read: "I'm dead, quit listening to me"


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,443
Location: Oz

08 Jun 2019, 10:01 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Rammstein have commented on their leftist leanings in interviews, at this point it's just flat-out dishonest to insist they're Nazis.


<chuckle>
You have obviously misunderstood the thread's intent and its content.
I suggest you re-read the posts. :wink:

My understanding is that Rammstein is quite an old band.
During those years it is reasonable to assume their public position may have changed as a result of their transition from a struggling band to a worldwide sensation.

To be clear, I am a huge fan of Rammstein. :wink:

Quote:
Rammstein (German pronunciation: [ˈʁamʃtaɪn]) is a German Neue Deutsche Härte band formed in Berlin in 1994. Their six-man lineup—lead vocalist Till Lindemann, lead guitarist Richard Z. Kruspe, rhythm guitarist Paul Landers, bassist Oliver Riedel, drummer Christoph Schneider, and keyboardist Christian "Flake" Lorenz—has remained unchanged throughout their existence. Prior to their formation, some members were associated with acts such as Feeling B and First Arsch.

After winning a contest for amateur bands, Rammstein were able to record demos and send them to different record labels; they were eventually signed by Motor Music. Working with producer Jacob Hellner, they released their debut album Herzeleid in 1995. Though the album sold poorly, the band gained popularity through their live performances. Their rise led to the release of their second album, Sehnsucht, two years later. It debuted at No. 1 in Germany, resulted in a worldwide tour lasting nearly four years, and spawned the successful singles "Engel" and "Du hast" as well as the live album Live aus Berlin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rammstein


_________________
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen: