How much of human behaviour is nothing more than bullying

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Bravo5150
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14 Aug 2019, 11:37 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Ignoring bullying----depending on your ability to do something about it----is "enabling bullying," and could even be a form of "bullying."


Ignoring bullying kind of falls into the same as my example of the ax in the forehead. When I discount ignoring as a form of bullying, I am mainly referring more in terms of not responding to small talk or something.



kraftiekortie
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14 Aug 2019, 11:41 am

I meant "ignoring bullying" more in the context where authority figures, or others in a position to do something about it, just sweep it under the rug.

I am one who believes that, sometimes, the bullied should just ignore the insults of the bully. There are times when that gets rid of the bully.

I am one very experienced in being bullied as a school child.



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14 Aug 2019, 11:48 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Ignoring bullying----depending on your ability to do something about it----is "enabling bullying," and could even be a form of "bullying."


The managers wouldn't do anything about the person I've mentioned (they were scared of him) so they ignored the bullying (from him). At one point it did get to Department Manager level and even they didn't do anything.

I was talking about ignoring a person (who was a bully), and should they have so wished they (to make trouble) could in turn have reported me for bullying because I was socially isolating "https://www.beyonddifferences.org/social-isolation/" them by not talking to them (in self-defense).

Bullying is a very complex subject.



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14 Aug 2019, 11:53 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I meant "ignoring bullying" more in the context where authority figures, or others in a position to do something about it, just sweep it under the rug.

I am one who believes that, sometimes, the bullied should just ignore the insults of the bully. There are times when that gets rid of the bully.

I am one very experienced in being bullied as a school child.


See, there are two types of bullying - physical - beating someone up and - verbal - name calling. Except there is a third - ignoring someone. That is what they did to me. It was impossible to prove and it was very insidious and sneakily done. There were no insults to ignore.



Bravo5150
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14 Aug 2019, 11:58 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I meant "ignoring bullying" more in the context where authority figures, or others in a position to do something about it, just sweep it under the rug.

I am one who believes that, sometimes, the bullied should just ignore the insults of the bully. There are times when that gets rid of the bully.

I am one very experienced in being bullied as a school child.


I knew what you meant. I have had authority figured sweep things under the rug and turn things into being my fault because of even several occasions where I have had to defend myself all alone against several people at once.



jimmy m
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14 Aug 2019, 12:17 pm

Teasing and Bullying – Those terms are very understated. The term teasing and bullying are terms developed to protect the abusers. They minimize the offense. A more accurate phrase is cruel and relentless torture. In adult society, the terms used are physical abuse, psychological abuse, and assault and they are criminal offenses.

* Bullies are very adept at what they do. It is almost like they took a course in the subject.
* They instinctively recognize those that are weak, alone and defenseless, venerable individuals.
* They know where in the playground or inside the school, they can strike outside the view of authorities
* They know how to inflict the maximum amount of pain without leaving visible marks as evidence [such as a jab to the ribcage, a kick to the nuts, or a chokehold].
* Many times they operate as a group, a gang.
* They know about the unwritten rules such as the “Code of Silence” and the “Never Snitch”. They enforce these rules to silence witnesses.

In general, bullies are cowards and rarely fight fair.
* They form into groups with lieutenants and soldiers.
* In a conflict it is always about the one (the victim) verses the many (the gang).
* You show up armed only with your fists to protect yourself, while they might show up
armed to the teeth. Any fight is rarely fought on a level playing field and the conclusions are rarely left up to chance.
* And in the aftermath of the physical and verbal attack, it is always the word of the many (the gang), combined with the silence of the eyewitnesses (unwritten code of silence) against the word of the one (the victim).

It all springs from our animal heritage. Bullies are Alphas, Their Gang are Betas, and we unfortunately are Omegas.


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14 Aug 2019, 12:51 pm

Bullying can be difficult to ignore. When I was 11 I had 2 girls discreetly wait for me on the walk home from school, then once I passed their new hiding place they'd walk behind me and shout names at me until I turned off into my street. I never retaliated, I just walked along and ignored them, but that never stopped them. Just because they know you're ignoring them it doesn't mean they think you can't hear them. It only stopped after I found a different route home, and fortunately they didn't acknowledge me at all in school. But I bet they would have carried on yelling names at me in the street if I carried on walking on their route. Bullies don't always expect a reaction. They just enjoy acting like jerks because they ARE jerks and don't give a damn about how you are feeling.


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kraftiekortie
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14 Aug 2019, 12:54 pm

I understand that. I understand that pure "ignoring" might not be an effective way to get rid of bullies. I've been bullied in the same fashion as many here.

I said that, SOMETIMES, ignoring the bully could get rid of him/her. It's one device of many that can be used.



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14 Aug 2019, 1:18 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I understand that. I understand that pure "ignoring" might not be an effective way to get rid of bullies. I've been bullied in the same fashion as many here.

I said that, SOMETIMES, ignoring the bully could get rid of him/her. It's one device of many that can be used.


Yes, ignoring bullies may work if they are only bullying for a reaction.


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14 Aug 2019, 1:30 pm

I have a speculation that this is part of mother nature so people naturally fear what they don't understand. Animals do it too except they run away from weird species like us. They will also attack if they feel threatened. Humans are the same way except we won't kill each other and harm each other, but instead they may bully you and single you out and treat you different. I wrote more about it here:

https://mynoneabdlthoughts.wordpress.co ... nderstand/


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14 Aug 2019, 1:37 pm

The worst bullies there are out there are the ones who are nice people because they are nice to everyone but they carefully pick their targets and are only mean to that one target. That is a way they can get away with it and that target stays quiet because they know if they complain about it, they won't be believed and they will be seen as the bad guy. Plus they also are questioning themselves thinking they are doing something wrong because no one else has a problem with that person, that is called gaslighting.

I found out my choir teacher did this and I think the only reason why she didn't pick me as her target was because I had an aide and she knew my aide would back me up if I opened my mouth about her treatment towards me. Plus that would probably cause other students to open their mouths too and I would have had back up. Plus that would risk her her teaching job. We lived in a small town so if I was going around talking about it, it would make other former students open their mouths too. I was that kind of person, treat me wrong, I speak up about it and make sure the whole world knows about it and I have been called a bully for this sort of thing too because how dare I expose someone's dirty laundry. :roll:


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Bravo5150
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14 Aug 2019, 1:47 pm

I have come up with one idea for how to address the issue of authority figures who want to ignore bullying. That is remind them if they ever need help, then being on the spectrum doesn't affect my ability to learn things like first aid proceedures as much as PTSD from being bullied affects my ability to practice those proceedures.



Irimias
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16 Aug 2019, 10:56 pm

People like to put others down to make them appear stronger within the group or hierarchy therefore having autism can make you at risk as you are seen as a simple target by some to raise their status.



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20 Aug 2019, 8:21 am

dyadiccounterpoint wrote:
Can I rephrase the question?

How much of Human Behavior is Nothing More Than Maneuvering for Status?

I see bullying, alongside a constellation of other behaviors, as falling within this larger umbrella. I think a lot of the expression of these behaviors is learned and subconscious.

I doubt little kids actually think "he has emotional vulnerabilities that I can exploit to build reputation off of their back. I'm going to push their perceived weakness and enhance my own status by displaying dominance over them aggressively."

They get older and, at least for the more intelligent among them, cultivate superior status building skills that are less crude but no less exclusionary and selfish.


This strikes me as the most accurate explanation.



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20 Aug 2019, 8:42 am

jimmy m wrote:
Teasing and Bullying – Those terms are very understated. The term teasing and bullying are terms developed to protect the abusers. They minimize the offense. A more accurate phrase is cruel and relentless torture. In adult society, the terms used are physical abuse, psychological abuse, and assault and they are criminal offenses.

* Bullies are very adept at what they do. It is almost like they took a course in the subject.
* They instinctively recognize those that are weak, alone and defenseless, venerable individuals.
* They know where in the playground or inside the school, they can strike outside the view of authorities
* They know how to inflict the maximum amount of pain without leaving visible marks as evidence [such as a jab to the ribcage, a kick to the nuts, or a chokehold].
* Many times they operate as a group, a gang.
* They know about the unwritten rules such as the “Code of Silence” and the “Never Snitch”. They enforce these rules to silence witnesses.

In general, bullies are cowards and rarely fight fair.
* They form into groups with lieutenants and soldiers.
* In a conflict it is always about the one (the victim) verses the many (the gang).
* You show up armed only with your fists to protect yourself, while they might show up
armed to the teeth. Any fight is rarely fought on a level playing field and the conclusions are rarely left up to chance.
* And in the aftermath of the physical and verbal attack, it is always the word of the many (the gang), combined with the silence of the eyewitnesses (unwritten code of silence) against the word of the one (the victim).

It all springs from our animal heritage. Bullies are Alphas, Their Gang are Betas, and we unfortunately are Omegas.


This is without a doubt the best summary I have ever seen and should be included in all anti-bullying literature. I wish I could show this to everyone who ever said "just fight back!" It's not that simple when you are outnumbered 6 to 1 and they have zero worries of consequences. The one time I did fight back against the "ringleader" all entire "gang" backed him up so *I* was punished for being the bully (and the bullying ramped by ten fold)! Saying fight back is as ridiculous as pulling a gun on a heavily armed SWAT team that breaks into your house: no matter how right you are, you aren't going to win.

I do tip by hat to the bully in that a former classmate (and I believe them) told me they saw zero evidence I was bullied. He was a master at going right to the limit without going over to the point where the police or media would get involved. When we were one on one or there was a "tough" authority figure around he was my best friend, even to the point where he gave an anti-bullying speech once and we Aspies are the crazy ones?

I've said it before and I will say it again: what is considered "teasing" as teenagers is considered a criminal offense by adults. That's probably why I was never bullied past the age of 16. I love how as an adult I can get a restraining order, get the offender arrested, etc but as a teenager the cops told me "it's a school problem" before walking away even though the bullies could have killed me!



kraftiekortie
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20 Aug 2019, 8:45 am

I agree with everything except the last line. I don't believe it's as simple as "alphas" and "betas." Though I believe the "animal heritage" aspect has some importance.