Are leftists the biggest hypocrites towards autistic issues?

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JD12345
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15 Aug 2019, 4:19 am

bhawk wrote:
I personally do not understand tribal politics, both here in the UK and elsewhere.
For me i make an assessment of the policies the parties are putting forward.
Here in the uk there is a website which will give you the main parties policies, without identifying whose policy it is.
You then select which of the policies you support, at the end of the listed policies it will then give you an evaluation of which parties policies you support by majority.
I try to stick to this idea, even with the recent demonisation and persecution from the right wing tory party towards anyone disabled.


Tribal politics is largely based around values and identity (be it class, gender, race, sexuality, religion, location etc) rather than specific policy proposals. Looking at the UK, this is most obvious in Northern Ireland, where the Catholic vote goes almost entirely to Catholic parties and the Protestant vote goes almost entirely to Protestant parties.



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15 Aug 2019, 4:16 pm

I think it's more of a norm on the left than it is for the right, the dishonesty and mean-spirited rhetoric.
And further towards socialism direction tends to be the long-term trajectory of the Democrats interests and the left's parties in general.

Genuinely conservative right-wing viewpoints are irrelevant in the culture climate today.



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15 Aug 2019, 8:20 pm

On a practical level, the policies most likely to benefit autists would be something along the lines of universal health care (including mental health of course) and any sort of assistance in living, be it food stamps or some potential UBI in the future. A lot of people on the spectrum depend on disability benefits as well. Section 8 housing, etc.

These sorts of proposals, and the defense of preexisting social benefits, are most likely to emerge because of political influence from the left upon the establishment.

I think this sort of economic representation is more important in terms of actually improving the lives of autists.


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15 Aug 2019, 9:31 pm

Ollywog wrote:
StrivingForGreatLiving wrote:
The Democrat party as a whole will fight to death for concerns of LGBT, feminist, minorities, etc. But will never spend a second talking about the inequality of autistic people in society.


All of these things have developed over time. The political left supports LGBT people now. They support women's rights now. They support racial equality now. All of those things were untrue at points in the past. It took years of those groups of people demanding equality for their concerns to become part of the mainstream progressive platform. Autistic people are beginning to do the same, but the movement has not broken through yet. That's why things are as you observe.

Yep. Exactly my point too.

Moreover, I would say that we need to build a community, i.e. a well-organized and well-networked subculture, before we can have an effective political movement.


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16 Aug 2019, 6:36 pm

Depends what you mean by leftists. The ordinary people I used to live among were decidedly leftist, quite radically so, and they made me feel very welcome because for them, social inclusion was a way of life. They also leaned towards anarchism, nihilism and hippie ideology, and weren't expecting anything great from the UK Labour Party, which I think was wise.

But that's just my personal experience of ordinary leftists. I've no idea about the US Democrat Party, I would guess they're a group of politicians who are mostly posing as left-wingers but are only leftist in comparison to the Republicans. No doubt they will trot out all kinds of politically-correct dogma, but I doubt they're particularly committed to it. I knew one or two disabled people during the Obama years, but I didn't notice the benefits people being particularly fair or compassionate to them. Generally speaking it was a matter of forcing the bureaucrats to pay up by hiring a no-win, no-fee lawyer.

In the UK, as far as I can see, the official "left" (Labour Party) has done little for the underprivileged and has just played its own game. I think about half of them are indistinguishable from Tories. Blair just carried on privatising the public services. During the final days of that government they were talking about how to cut the benefits bill, without even wondering what was going to happen to the claimants if they did that. They were putting out this idea that everybody who can work should work, with a view to deeming disabled people fit for work and stopping their benefits, but of course they had no plans to force the idle rich to flip burgers, no plans to outlaw living off an unearned income, just a wish to cut public spending and reduce progressive taxation. Inequality got worse, and Blair just said "that just means the rich are getting comparatively richer and that doesn't matter as long as the poor are also getting richer" - maybe they were before the credit crunch, but that brought the poor back down with a bang, and the differentials continued to rise.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the US "Leftists" you're talking about were hypocrites as well. That Clinton woman looked like she was pretty wealthy. Politicians always seem to do pretty well out of the system. I didn't see any left-wing achievements from Obama like fair dismissal laws or truly affordable healthcare. Even the UK has those, though not for much longer if current trends continue.

I appreciate this loss of patience with politically correct speech. I think there's a genuine element in it to try to get a fairer society by means of altering the language to stop it channeling people into bigoted thinking, but taken to excess it gets cumbersome and oppressive. On a more practical level, Labour councils often used to restrict the height of the hedges and fences that residents could put up round their gardens, presumably in the belief that it was exclusionist to barricade yourself into your nice private property, but they didn't really protect residents from the destructive kids, drunks and burglars that their policy enabled. The way I see it, these governing bodies fail to represent the community or to listen to their concerns, it's very ivory tower. I think if we ever get a real leftist government things will look very different to what we've seen so far. My own view is that real socialism - which is basically just the ethos of fairness - has never been tried, and people see Stalin or Clinton and think that's what it's all about. Perhaps it only happens in small communities, and a city or a country is just too big to allow a truly representative democracy to happen.



Irimias
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16 Aug 2019, 11:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
Come to think of it ... the Rightists aren't at all hypocritical about autistic issues -- they just don't give a damn![/color]

:roll:
[/quote]

I was thinking the same. The right wing philosophy is for every man to fend for himself so how on earth that that can be seductive way of thinking for an autist is beyond me. Anyway I'm not going any further with this and getting into political discussions on a place like this.



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17 Aug 2019, 12:55 am

StrivingForGreatLiving wrote:
The Democrat party as a whole will fight to death for concerns of LGBT, feminist, minorities, etc. But will never spend a second talking about the inequality of autistic people in society.

I feel that autistic people are the equivalent of working class whites who used to loyally support Democrats until job trends like mass automation started decimating the rural economies. The fact that the left starts using the term “incel” to describe men with no sexual experience who are socially awkward really shows they are indifferent at best, and hostile at worst towards autistic people. Plus, most incels are just mentally ill nuts.

A lot of socially awkward men are autistic, sure not most of them. But if 5% of all socially awkward people are on the spectrum, considering a 1% rate among the population, they are 5x likely to have ASD than average.


Honestly, I don't see what you see. A lot of friends I see on the left are always advocating for better resources/access to said resources towards individuals with disabilities. The LGBT/minority movement shouldn't be seen as your rival, either.


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17 Aug 2019, 3:20 am

I don't want their concern, it's only available if I can be co-opted and used in their struggle, so f**k em.



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17 Aug 2019, 3:47 am

domineekee wrote:
I don't want their concern, it's only available if I can be co-opted and used in their struggle, so f**k em.

"Co-opted and used" how, exactly? What, specifically, are you afraid of?


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17 Aug 2019, 5:15 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
domineekee wrote:
I don't want their concern, it's only available if I can be co-opted and used in their struggle, so f**k em.

"Co-opted and used" how, exactly? What, specifically, are you afraid of?


I don't want any concern about my well being from people who hold me on the outside of their group because of my gender or race and then admit me into the group because I'm in a minority group.
I wouldn't dream of getting in anyone's face if they didn't understand the disadvantages that we face, or if they were not up to date with the whole debate or terminology being used around AS.
I wouldn't dream of treating NTs as the obstacle to my happiness or liberation, or force my problem into the forefront of their consciousness. I find that behaviour smug and cold.



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17 Aug 2019, 5:16 am

Is there any evidence that people on the spectrum would act as a reliable voting block?
It doesn't make any sense for a party to do what some posters are asking in return for votes if you can't depend on those votes. And how many votes are we talking about?



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17 Aug 2019, 5:43 am

domineekee wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
domineekee wrote:
I don't want their concern, it's only available if I can be co-opted and used in their struggle, so f**k em.

"Co-opted and used" how, exactly? What, specifically, are you afraid of?


I don't want any concern about my well being from people who hold me on the outside of their group because of my gender or race and then admit me into the group because I'm in a minority group.
I wouldn't dream of getting in anyone's face if they didn't understand the disadvantages that we face, or if they were not up to date with the whole debate or terminology being used around AS.
I wouldn't dream of treating NTs as the obstacle to my happiness or liberation, or force my problem into the forefront of their consciousness. I find that behaviour smug and cold.

I agree with this sentiment.


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17 Aug 2019, 7:45 am

BTDT wrote:
Is there any evidence that people on the spectrum would act as a reliable voting block?
It doesn't make any sense for a party to do what some posters are asking in return for votes if you can't depend on those votes. And how many votes are we talking about?


What you've said is sad, but true. You nailed it, actually. Think of any minority or disadvantaged group out there that The Left appears to advocate for; I would argue every one of them as a whole vote solidly Democrat.

I'm sure the same practice could happen on the Republican side, but that not what this thread is about.

Think of how sad that reality is just for a moment.



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17 Aug 2019, 9:31 am

domineekee wrote:
I don't want any concern about my well being from people who hold me on the outside of their group because of my gender or race and then admit me into the group because I'm in a minority group.

In case you haven't noticed, there are plenty of white male Democrats and also plenty of white male leftists. They aren't "held outside" of these groups, though they are expected to be aware of the concerns of various minorities.

domineekee wrote:
I wouldn't dream of getting in anyone's face if they didn't understand the disadvantages that we face, or if they were not up to date with the whole debate or terminology being used around AS.
I wouldn't dream of treating NTs as the obstacle to my happiness or liberation, or force my problem into the forefront of their consciousness. I find that behaviour smug and cold.

Unfortunately too many "SJWs" have taken the "smug and cold" approach, but there are also other, better, more productive ways of educating the public. Be that as it may, do you really reject any and all attempts to make the world a better place for autistic people on the mere grounds that some activists might hurt the feelings of some NTs?


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 17 Aug 2019, 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mona Pereth
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17 Aug 2019, 9:39 am

Magna wrote:
BTDT wrote:
Is there any evidence that people on the spectrum would act as a reliable voting block?
It doesn't make any sense for a party to do what some posters are asking in return for votes if you can't depend on those votes. And how many votes are we talking about?


What you've said is sad, but true. You nailed it, actually. Think of any minority or disadvantaged group out there that The Left appears to advocate for; I would argue every one of them as a whole vote solidly Democrat.

Not solidly, but a large majority.

In any case it should be noted that left-wingers are already much more inclined than right-wingers to stand up for the rights of disabled people generally.


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17 Aug 2019, 10:16 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
do you really reject any and all attempts to make the world a better place for autistic people on the mere grounds that some activists might hurt the feelings of some NTs?


I'm just very wary of people who thrust their ideas onto me and need me to outwardly agree with their every stance.

I don't think that your summary is a very direct reflection of my sentiments by the way.

I am a leftie and belong to several minority groups, I just don't make a song and dance about it.