Being proud of your ethnicity, nationality or skin-color

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thinkinginpictures
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27 Aug 2019, 11:32 am

Why do most people always seem to be proud of being part of a particular ethnicity, nationality or skin-color, which has NOTHING - absolutely nothing to say about your personal achievements in life, in industry, in economics or anything else you actually contributed with?

I mean, being "proud" of being "American", "Danish", "Chinese", "Turkish" - or whatever that says nothing about YOU is completely and outright STUPID!

So... you're "American" (insert any other nationality, ethnicity or whatever). So what?

What did YOU do/achieve? What is your CONTRIBUTION to the world that makes you any "special"?

When people reply to that question, and tell "I work" or "I made some art" or "I volunteered in..." ethnicity or nationality is completely irrelevant.

Yet nationalism is what they use to justify forced coercion like CONSCRIPTION or the compulsory "swearing an oath" or even compulsory attending church or mosque or whatever.

Nationalism does not make your people free, quite the contrary it makes you suffer unneccssary hardships and even wars.

So can we _PLEASE_ abolish nationalism?

Thank you very much!



Fnord
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27 Aug 2019, 11:45 am

Oh, really?

I am proud to be an American, a veteran, a university graduate, an electrical engineer, a father, a husband, and a person of German, Polish and Scots ancestry.

My skin color? It changes with the seasons, so I cannot really take pride in it being any one shade of brown or pink.

Sure, abolish nationalism -- which involves being proud of what and whom you are not -- but don't abolish a person's right to be proud of what or whom they are.


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red_doghubb
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27 Aug 2019, 11:59 am

I don't know where you live, but in America a standard question Americans ask when getting to know each other is: where did your ancestors come from? Because we don't have a monolithic background (how many Brits ask another Brit where their ancestors came from?) . Americans will proudly answer, Polish/Russian/German/Italian etc. It's part of their heritage and identity, not some war mongering ethno-nationalistic sentiment. I won't cease telling people I'm German- English because you think art makes someone special.



red_doghubb
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27 Aug 2019, 12:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
Oh, really?

I am proud to be an American, a veteran, a university graduate, an electrical engineer, a father, a husband, and a person of German, Polish and Scots ancestry.

My skin color? It changes with the seasons, so I cannot really take pride in it being any one shade of brown or pink.

Sure, abolish nationalism -- which involves being proud of what and whom you are not -- but don't abolish a person's right to be proud of what or whom they are.


I wish I could turn brown but my German-English skin burns once, stays red for a week, then goes back to paper white. (uh oh, did I just out myself as a nationalist?)



ltcvnzl
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27 Aug 2019, 12:24 pm

People like to label themselves, it's easier to navigate the world this way, to feel you belong to something. I don't like when this gets too relevant, but I don't think this is bad as default. And it's not necessarily nationalistic.

I can focus on what I achieved and contributed to the world, but where I was born, my skin-color, background etc still have a role to it – which can be positive, negative, or neutral. I don't think it make any good denying it. Yes, it's wrong to create a hierarchy within different backgrounds but just acknowledging it influences you?



Fnord
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27 Aug 2019, 12:29 pm

red_doghubb wrote:
I wish I could turn brown but my German-English skin burns once, stays red for a week, then goes back to paper white. (uh oh, did I just out myself as a nationalist?)
You're a white-skinned person of English-German ancestry?!

Image


:wink: Just kidding!


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red_doghubb
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27 Aug 2019, 12:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
red_doghubb wrote:
I wish I could turn brown but my German-English skin burns once, stays red for a week, then goes back to paper white. (uh oh, did I just out myself as a nationalist?)
You're a white-skinned person of English-German ancestry?!

Image


:wink: Just kidding!


Shocking isn't it. I'm sure my East Anglian ancestors were deep bronze and I'm just a freak.



firemonkey
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27 Aug 2019, 12:46 pm

There is very little for me to be proud about . That would apply whether I was African,Asian or European .


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Fnord
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27 Aug 2019, 1:01 pm

When my elementary-school teachers found out that I have First-Nations ancestry, they started treating me different. When the other kids found out, they treated me the same way that TV "Cowboys" treated TV "Indians" -- beating, chasing, exclusion/segregation, stealing (et cetera) and the teachers simply ignored it all. I don't resemble any of the fine-looking Ojibwe people; I look more like a hunch-backed Bavarian gnome than anything else.


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VegetableMan
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27 Aug 2019, 1:15 pm

I'm just a member of the human race, and a citizen of Planet Earth. And neither of these things make me particularly proud.


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TheOther
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27 Aug 2019, 1:51 pm

In therms of heritage, I see being proud of that as paying respect to the people and culture who came before me. It reminds me that a lot of things had to happen in the past for me to exist, and helps me get a sense of where I fit into the history of man. I am thankful that I exist, and it is because of them. I see being proud of that as similar to being thankful for someone who has helped me out. I also think that within cultures, there is a lot of wisdom that is passed down from one generation to another. I always want more wisdom.

Nationally, I see my fellow citizens as partners. We are literally neighbors, and (in my country anyways) we all have a small role to play in terms of guiding our home into future. Our well-being is interconnected, and I benefit from them doing well, and vice versa. I am also proud of the philosophical background of my country (USA), and believe strongly in individual liberty and freedom. I am proud that my ancestors and countrymen have accomplished the creation and continuation of my home. Given the opportunity to live in any country in the world, I would still choose to live here. I am thankful that those who came before me have set things up as well as they have (not that anything is perfect, and not to deny that there have been a lot of horrible things that happened and continue to happen).

In the current climate, I suppose it is important to say that I am NOT a racist, and I do not look down on any other ethnicity, culture, or country. I love to travel, meet new people, and experience different ways of life. I would hate my life if I couldn't eat food from any other culture :lol:.

As an aside, you can't abolish an idea. What would it mean to abolish nationalism? Are we going to arrest people for displaying a flag, eating certain foods, or speaking certain languages?



aghogday
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27 Aug 2019, 2:02 pm

Tribe; It All Depends on the Size of our Tribes; for Some Folks It's as small as a Tribe of one; The Real Focus
of Folks Like Trump Comes into mind this way; for others it is a Couple; a Nomad Group of Two Looking for
a Living Around an Entire World; And then there is Family And Religion And Bigger Cultural Villages and Towns
and Cities And States and Nations; And By 'God' There is the Entire World And A Much Bigger Global Cosmopolitan
View(S); Ironically Enough that Follows the Teachings of so-Called Jesus and Christianity; However, there are opposing
Views of Parent against Child Against Parent Against Sister and Brother and Anyone Who Disagrees with A Philosophy
of Life as that Truly is How Christianity is Practiced, overall, one against the other whoever the other is deemed to be.

It's fascinating where i Live; to the North of the County One Will Find Tribalism that is called Nationalism; but it's
really all about Who is included in the 'First Baptist Shared Small Church'. Further South It is the City and the Mall
Where Tourists around the World With Destination Paradise, the Panhandle Sugar White Beaches, come to
Mix and Mingle at the Mall. That Mall is Truly A Beautiful Place; and even the Advertising is Aimed
at a Cosmopolitan View of life of One Love For All. Of course that is required to suit the Entire
Target Audience for Bucks to do the best they can and will not to offend any one Group too much.

With the Advent of Global Connections; We are increasingly Becoming a Cosmopolitan World Species.
The Folks in the smaller Venn Diagrams of tribes may Find this a bit overwhelming and want to retreat.
i don't see that ever changing any more than Extraverts Eradicating Introverts; or Open Minded Folks Eradicating
Closed Minded Folks as it's true in the Larger Animal Kingdom; the Ratio of 'Sitters' Versus 'Rovers' is Empirically
Measured at about a Ratio of 20/80; True, some folks Stay in the Cave more with the Same Art; And Other Folks
Venture Out to Meet Others; Mix and Mingle and Create New Arts Never Viewed Before; and of course Sciences
too; as far as what has been tried and tested to work before; i fit everyone in my Life; it's easy for me; but i am
surely not 'everyone' to be able to do that with smiles; For it is True, usually i have to go as Far as India
to make that Happen; as where i live in Trump Town USA; a bit North from the Beaches and not all
the way up toward 'Farm Life'; let's Just say if you Do Not Believe One Dude is somehow an only
Begotten Son of God; You can just about bet that You will Not Fit in with anyone here who voted for
Trump which is about 80 Percent of the population, immediately where i live. Considering the Teachings of
the New Testament; if the Dude Jesus; if He could come back as the Story is Generally Written; He would have
A Raging Hissy Fit; if he knew that Folks Made him into an Only Sun God Man; excluding everyone who did not
fall on their Knees and Worship Him as a God. He would Probably feel like Turning Money tables all over again;
but what good would it do; It is Human Nature; some folks are nomads and some folks sit in caves afraid
of the Light Outside of 'Platos Cave'; Not Surprising that Greek Writing Romans are Responsible for the
New Testament Now for it Reeks of the Light Outside Plato's Cave; Cosmopolitan is verily the Color of
the Jesus Story at Core; the Color of How Nationalism is practiced in the United States is Old Testament
Tribal
mostly
all the way;
Particularly, when folks
Still Live in 'Desert-like' ScaRCity';
Ripe for the Pickings of a Next Despicable
Leader; a Demagogue like Trump to take advantage
of the Insecurities and Prejudices to fight against an Enemy
that a Demagogue Paints More Dark to be as Typically Perceived by
those who are Afraid of Different and Unhappy in their Social Roles of Life.
Humans Are Tribal Animals; Particularly, Who Bond over Shared Co-Created Traditional
Symbols of Life; that is not going away; nor is Tribalism; Nor is Cosmopolitism either; No more
than the First Baptist Church Dude Looking At Russian porn on His off hours away from Church and Work.
The Cat's out of 'the Bag'; and it runs and wild and free around the Globe; Set People Free And they Drink that Water
no matter How they Label Free; small or big; meanwhile others will moan and groan about it as the World Will Turn.

It's really no Different than the Politics Portion of this Website aimed Toward a Label of Autism That Folks Choose
to make their Tribe of Life with a Nationalistic/Tribal/Scope of 'Autistic'; Where the 'Others' become 'Neurotypical'
As Perceived Enemy; and even bring about Conspiracy Theories about Volunteer Organizations 'Secretly' Trying
To Eradicate them from the Earth like 'Autism Speaks'; This does not stray from the Human Condition even amongst
Folks Who Attempt to suggest now that they are not innately Social In Nature; that is truly Rare and surely not
Healthy for Any Human Being to stray from moving, connecting, and co-creating Conditions of Life to
both Survive and Thrive; it's all Basic Neurohormonal And Neurochemical; Human Being Science 101;
We Will 'think' We Escape Our Limbic System And Reptile Brain; But Understand Better where We belong;
As typically folks try to rationalize it and Project oh no; that could Never Be me; as they do the same essence
with other labels for a form of Essence of what they do; and are innately so gifted and challenged in Life Same/Different.

i get bored fast with the same Culture; these are the Best days of all to live for me; just Dancing Singing Around a Globe
Having Fun Meeting different People and coming back to where Life seems to stay at a stand still; folks still discussing
what was in the Cave before; but never the less it is what is now. It's a bit ironic; but This Website reminds me of 'home'.
And As Gorgeous at the Environment is Where i Live; Beaches; Forests; Rivers so Much Abundance; The Folks remain
the same; Old No matter their age to me, for the most part; but oh yes; then there is the Beach and all the Tourists
i get to meet in the Big Metro Dance Hall; Best of Both Worlds to Study; at least both here and there; around the Globe.


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wowiexist
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27 Aug 2019, 2:43 pm

I remember George Carlin ranting about this one time. I agree with you. I guess some people have nothing else to be proud of.



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27 Aug 2019, 2:43 pm

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/boy-conso ... of-school/

"Boy consoles crying classmate with autism
This 8-year-old boy from Wichita, Kansas, saw a fellow classmate crying on the first day of school. So he showed compassion and held the boy's hand, then walked him inside."

Maybe things are better in Kansas.



thinkinginpictures
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27 Aug 2019, 2:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
but don't abolish a person's right to be proud of what or whom they are.[/color]


I certainly did NOT say that I want to abolish a person's right to be proud of what or whom they are.
Most of what make you who you are is your brain, your thoughts and decisions in life. Be proud of being yourself.

But do not be proud of random processes or other people's achievements - you did nothing to achieve that.

Nationality or ethnicity says nothing about you or your personality or your achievements in life or what else.

Saying "I'm a Dane and PROUD of my country!" is against everything I stand for. Sure, I'm Danish, I like our welfare state and a lot of other stuff.

But I cannot be proud anything that I had done nothing to achieve. I was born here and automatically granted citizenship from my birth. And for that I'm thankful. But proud? Why/how?

You can be proud of ACHIEVEMENTS which YOU did. Actions and decisions you took in life. That's stuff you can be proud of.

I see no reason why I should be proud of something that was beyond my own control. I didn't decide to get citizenship. It was granted to me from birth. I can't be proud of being white because this is just my genes and I did nothing to choose my genes.

I can be proud of my OWN decisions and my OWN choices. Stuff that I had a say in, stuff that _I_ personally made a difference in through my ACTIONS and DECISIONS.

Being proud of something you did nothing to achieve, is equivalent of taking credit for a works of art you never painted.