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chris1989
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29 Sep 2019, 9:24 am

I still think Nazism was worst due to racism, hatred, inequality, anti capitalist, anti communist and committed terrible things because of it and Communism wasn't quite the same as Nazism, Okay, there were cases of inequality (especially to religious groups under communist regimes and were anti capitalist and one particularly hideous communist regime was Pol Pot's were millions were just simply murdered but other regimes like that never committed anything as atrocious as Hitler and the Nazis did.



aquafelix
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29 Sep 2019, 10:48 am

I guess communism was worse for the bourgeoisie and Nazism worse for the jews. I'm certain communism had a higher body count.



Fireblossom
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29 Sep 2019, 11:00 am

I think this should be in the politics -section.

Nazism as an ideology is far worse than communism, but in WWII, more people died in Soviet Union (where the communism was the strongest) than in Germany (where nazism was the strongest.) A lot of people died in SU after the war, too. The ideology of communism is that everyone does their best and gets their fair share, while the idea of nazism is that certain people are above others. With that in mind, I'd say nazism is worse.



naturalplastic
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29 Sep 2019, 1:46 pm

Nazism is evil in theory. And its evil when put into practice.

Communism is moral and idealistic in theory, but evil when put into practice.

Mein Kampf lays out how Hitler wanted to conquer, enslave, and mass murder.

In contrast Marx's Communist Manifesto is summed up in two sentences:"from each according to his ability. To each according his need".

But when communism was put on the map it required totalitarianism indistinguishable from Nazism. Indeed Fascism (which Nazism is the most virulent form) was spawned largely because of the rise of "Bolshevism" in Europe at the end of the First World War. The rich and the church and the priviledge feared the rise of communism, and desperately sought strongmen like Mussolini, Franco, and HItler to defend them against it.

Some fascist regimes are worse than others. And some Communist regimes were worse than others. If you view Nazism as a subset of fascism, and view Stalinism as a subset of Communism then Stalinism and Nazism are about the same and are both extreme.



Irimias
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29 Sep 2019, 4:30 pm

I don't look at history in such a way. Capitalism and colinualism were very destructive. Communism was implemented in russia in part because of the chaos brought about by the war, again which arise out of rivalry between the colonial powers. There was little chance of a non authoritarian communist system comubg about in russia as there was a huge counterrevolution and backlash from capitalists and foreign powers, therefore the only way to keep that at bay was a harsh autjoritarian regime. I'm not saying i agreed with that particularly but thats the reality.
Nazism also came about due to the falliut in germany of wwi and the treaty of versailles, so again we can lay substantial blame on the other colonial powers and this created a huge polarization in german politics between the communusts on one side and the nazis. The rich preferred having the nazis in power if it meant preventing a communist revolution.
During world war two many eastern block countries were occupied by the nazis and they were eventually suppressed and overthrown due to parties like the communists. Of course this required an authoritarian approach to reclaim power and subsequently when these regimes fell under the soviet sphere they remained authoritarian.
In short the 20th century was an authoritarian century in nazi Germany, fascist spain, italy and portugal and elsewhere. The communist countries were authoritarian as were the former african colonies after independence and parts of south america. The US also behaved in an authoritarian manner to non whites and in its military invasions and subversions across the globe.



lostonearth35
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29 Sep 2019, 10:53 pm

My own country is supposedly commie because of free health care, so I think Nazism is definitely worse.



kokopelli
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29 Sep 2019, 10:57 pm

Irimias wrote:
I don't look at history in such a way. Capitalism and colinualism were very destructive. Communism was implemented in russia in part because of the chaos brought about by the war, again which arise out of rivalry between the colonial powers. There was little chance of a non authoritarian communist system comubg about in russia as there was a huge counterrevolution and backlash from capitalists and foreign powers, therefore the only way to keep that at bay was a harsh autjoritarian regime. I'm not saying i agreed with that particularly but thats the reality.
Nazism also came about due to the falliut in germany of wwi and the treaty of versailles, so again we can lay substantial blame on the other colonial powers and this created a huge polarization in german politics between the communusts on one side and the nazis. The rich preferred having the nazis in power if it meant preventing a communist revolution.
During world war two many eastern block countries were occupied by the nazis and they were eventually suppressed and overthrown due to parties like the communists. Of course this required an authoritarian approach to reclaim power and subsequently when these regimes fell under the soviet sphere they remained authoritarian.
In short the 20th century was an authoritarian century in nazi Germany, fascist spain, italy and portugal and elsewhere. The communist countries were authoritarian as were the former african colonies after independence and parts of south america. The US also behaved in an authoritarian manner to non whites and in its military invasions and subversions across the globe.


Unless you are from a very old and wealthy family, you can thank Capitalism that you are affluent today. It has made life for all of us so much better than it would be without it that it is. pretty much unthinkable what life would be like without it.



timf
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30 Sep 2019, 8:46 am

To make such a comparison one has to first define the measurement standard.

If one has ability and morality, the environment suggested by libertarianism sounds attractive. However the reality is that in the absence of social control, evil people will assume control. Therefore libertarianism cannot exist.

If one has ability and is immoral, any social control system offers the possibility of advancing ti increasingly greater control and exploitation of others.

If one has less ability, the promise of National Socialism or Communism can sound equally attractive. However, in practice, one will be used as a slave to advance the purposes of those who have wormed their way to be in control regardless of the system established.

Capitalism (as defined by capital formation) is the formation of economic collectives and is not as alien to communism as one might think.

There is no "free" market as even sellers in a farmers market come to learn that there are those who are favored and those who are not.

If one looks at history and the various attempts to arrange society is some system configuration, one begins to see a fundamental flaw in that there is evil in the human heart that no "system" can prevent.

This suggests that the solution to the evil we inflict on each other is not so much to be found in the political arena, but the religious one.



Irimias
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30 Sep 2019, 11:02 am

kokopelli wrote:

Unless you are from a very old and wealthy family, you can thank Capitalism that you are affluent today. It has made life for all of us so much better than it would be without it that it is. pretty much unthinkable what life would be like without it.


Many people on the planet are still incredibly poor in spite of capitalism.
Capitalism has been effective up to a point. It has many limitations though including things like enormous income disparities on a global level and concentrating power in a small percentage of the global population. Its inefficiencies have also fueled revolutionary movements and the pursuit of expansion to new markets has led to wars over land and resources. The climate issue is another classic example of where the conflicting private interests of profit making are at odds with taking serious steps to avoid climate catastrophe.



rdococ
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03 Nov 2019, 12:22 pm

Capitalism came to being through the process of enclosure (look it up on Wikipedia, I can't post links yet), where a minority of powerful people took control over large areas of what was previously common land under feudalism. Land was no longer a way to provide food for the people as a whole, but a way to generate profit and cheap labor for the people in power.

People that view capitalism as a good thing, as merely the concept of free and voluntary association, are heavily misguided. It's not, it's a ploy to gain and keep control over the people, and most people have completely fallen for it.

Communism is an economic system in which the means of production (companies and buildings used to generate profit) are managed by their workers, or the society as a whole, in a democratic manner.

Nazism is a specific variant of fascism, a social system with an "in-group" and an "out-group", where the out-group is discriminated against to the point of enslavement, torture and extermination.

Capitalism has improved our lives greatly, but it has doomed many, and needs to be replaced sooner, rather than later. Communism is better than capitalism, and capitalism is better than nazism.



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03 Nov 2019, 12:37 pm

I think they both would suck, and I hate Capitalism because it exploits the hell out of the poor. But I guess Capitalism is slightly better than Communism or Fascism. Too bad it's being proven to be a doomed system...



TW1ZTY
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03 Nov 2019, 12:42 pm

I think in a perfect society we would all get over our selfish differences and work together to help each other and to take care of the planet.

How come nobody wants that?



rdococ
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03 Nov 2019, 12:45 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
I think in a perfect society we would all get over our selfish differences and work together to help each other and to take care of the planet.

How come nobody wants that?

We all want that, we just have different ideas on how to achieve it.



TW1ZTY
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03 Nov 2019, 12:46 pm

:smurf: "So human selfishness and corruption will destroy us all Grandpa Joe?"

:bigsmurf: "That'a right, Billy! Even your tiny soul is doomed to hell!"



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03 Nov 2019, 2:02 pm

Since this thread is about comparing Nazism to Communism, I will avoid addressing Capitalism per se.

Anyway, I would say the single biggest distinction between these two approaches to government is that, in reality, "Fascist" is basically an epithet used (mostly by people to the left of the political spectrum) to describe government and societies of which the speaker disapproves. To my knowledge, the only political party that ever called itself Fascist was the Fascist Party in Italy in the early 20th century, and of course they invented the term so were quite comfortable with it. But it later became a way to characterize any oppressive regime that officially favors the interests of one group over another (except for economic strata, which is a basis for Communism). Concerning economic strata, I don't think any political movement has ever publicly proclaimed its intent to favor the interests of the rich. I guess you could say that Fascism is by definition a bad, oppressive form of government, but you won't find many people claiming to be actual Fascists, expect possibly as a way to take the piss out of Leftists.

Communism OTOH advertises itself as a humanitarian philosophy and in fact millions of people have eagerly signed on to become self-described Communists. And Communist parties, some legal and some not, have been formed in most countries on Earth. The problem is that to achieve it, you have to actively restrict the activities of anybody who doesn't want to cooperate, so the result is what Western propagandists usually refer to as Totalitarianism. It's true that some Communist regimes have been more harsh than others. TBH the less harsh ones tend to be those that allow a certain degree of private enterprise. Ironically the East German government was less harsh in certain ways because a fair amount of family businesses were allowed to operate (compared to the Soviet Union, for example) but they had a bad image internationally mostly due to their draconian approach to emigration plus a general tradition of political brutality in mid-Century Germany which they did not see a need to mitigate so long as they could claim to be anti-Fascist. Consider how much nostalgia exists in many parts of today's Germany for that lifestyle, and you have to conclude that it wasn't entirely hell on Earth. Probably the most pure form of Communism ever practiced has been in Cuba, a country that has experienced almost no political freedom of any sort since God knows when but gets great press because so many people, in particular Canadians, seem to admire that government for having "stood up" to the US for so many decades.


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