Is music designed for autistics
18 Oct 2019, 11:18 am
gwynfryn wrote:
If the film Amadeus was based on biographical details, then Mozart was most certainly autistic, in terms of personality. It’s the best such portrayal I’ve ever seen, and far more “me” than those odd acting detectives, or whatever. Clues are his irreverence of the nobility, the way he corrected the “too many notes” comment. It would also explain why he had such a hard time making a living from his music; the Establishment (who back then were the only people who could afford music lessons, private recitals and the like) don’t like autistics!
Like I said autistic individuals can be geniuses who make mighty contributions to music. But I don't see how that equates to the notion that the very existence of music in the human race is because ….music was designed solely to be consumed by autistics.
18 Oct 2019, 11:25 am
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Apart from the obvious fact that any given song has the same words every time, they also have an added predictability: before they ever say the first word, they have that tune that make you *know* what song are they about to sing. Now, autistics like predictability. So could it be that the music is sort of designed for them? I mean I heard people saying that autistics are good in music and that kind of stuff. But I don't think anyone ever pointed out that thing with the tune helping you predict the song. People think the predictor-tune thing is sort of a given, but to me it strikes me as autistic.
Eer... if the words and the tune weren't the same every time, it would be different music. With this logic movies, books and TV shows are all made for autistic people too since they don't change either.
That was exactly what I thought too. You beat me to it.
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18 Oct 2019, 11:45 am
Music is designed for all kinds of people, that's why there are so many genres of music. But autistic people? I don't think so. We have individual tastes in music just like everyone else.
What can sound beautiful to one person (my brother) can sound quite painful to another person (me and just about anyone else with a working set of ears). 
18 Oct 2019, 1:14 pm
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Apart from the obvious fact that any given song has the same words every time, they also have an added predictability: before they ever say the first word, they have that tune that make you *know* what song are they about to sing. Now, autistics like predictability. So could it be that the music is sort of designed for them? I mean I heard people saying that autistics are good in music and that kind of stuff. But I don't think anyone ever pointed out that thing with the tune helping you predict the song. People think the predictor-tune thing is sort of a given, but to me it strikes me as autistic.
Eer... if the words and the tune weren't the same every time, it would be different music. With this logic movies, books and TV shows are all made for autistic people too since they don't change either.
But with books you have sometimes the same book in different cover. Yet with music there is always that tune before the song starts in order to help you predict what song would it be. I am not even talking about the tune during the song but right before it. Like whats the point of having that tune before the song to tell you what song you are about to listen to? Why not just start that song right away?
Music can have different covers too when talking about CDs. The cover of the CD isn't a permanent part of the music, but neither is a cover of a book part of the story.
Even though the covers of the CD-s can be different, the question remains: why are the tunes before the songs stay the same?
I realized that movies don't change either. But those journals before the movies DO change. Yet in case of the music you have that tune before the song that always stays the same. Its like trying to make sure that the journal before a specific movie stays the same so that people can predict what movie it would be just by looking at the journal.
(By journal I mean when they show brief ads of those other movies in the cinema, I don't know how to call that in English).
18 Oct 2019, 2:54 pm
GonHunter wrote:
I think you're right. The music was designed for us, we have good hearing and on top of that we were able to perceive harmonic combinations through the systematization. I suspect singer Kane Strang is an asperger, listen to his song "Oh So You're Off I See".
So you're saying that music was invented solely for the benefit of the one percent of the population who are autistic?
Virtually 100 percent of the population like music. But only 1.5 percent are autistic. So obviously music consumption is done mostly by non-autistics.
18 Oct 2019, 3:03 pm
QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Apart from the obvious fact that any given song has the same words every time, they also have an added predictability: before they ever say the first word, they have that tune that make you *know* what song are they about to sing. Now, autistics like predictability. So could it be that the music is sort of designed for them? I mean I heard people saying that autistics are good in music and that kind of stuff. But I don't think anyone ever pointed out that thing with the tune helping you predict the song. People think the predictor-tune thing is sort of a given, but to me it strikes me as autistic.
Eer... if the words and the tune weren't the same every time, it would be different music. With this logic movies, books and TV shows are all made for autistic people too since they don't change either.
But with books you have sometimes the same book in different cover. Yet with music there is always that tune before the song starts in order to help you predict what song would it be. I am not even talking about the tune during the song but right before it. Like whats the point of having that tune before the song to tell you what song you are about to listen to? Why not just start that song right away?
Music can have different covers too when talking about CDs. The cover of the CD isn't a permanent part of the music, but neither is a cover of a book part of the story.
Even though the covers of the CD-s can be different, the question remains: why are the tunes before the songs stay the same?
I realized that movies don't change either. But those journals before the movies DO change. Yet in case of the music you have that tune before the song that always stays the same. Its like trying to make sure that the journal before a specific movie stays the same so that people can predict what movie it would be just by looking at the journal.
(By journal I mean when they show brief ads of those other movies in the cinema, I don't know how to call that in English).
The "previews of coming attractions" that they inflict on you (both in theaters and on DVDs) are called "teasers", or "trailers". They are about OTHER coming movies. Not about the one you are about to see. They are not analogous to the instrumental introduction to pop songs that you hear before the vocals start. In the deejay business those are called "voice ins". Deejays like to talk over the voice-in, and stop talking the moment the vocals begin. But I digress.
Kool and the Gang's classic "Celebration Time" has a twelve second voice in. Long enough for a party deejay to tell the crowd to "get on the dancefloor and celebrate Mary and Mike's wedding with... 'Celebration Time' by Kool and the Gang!".
But the members of Kool and the Gang are not autistic, and neither are most brides and grooms, and neither are most guests at parties or weddings, nor are most radio listeners who choose the hits. So the fact that pop songs have voice-ins has nothing to do with autism.
18 Oct 2019, 5:38 pm
naturalplastic wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
I think you're right. The music was designed for us, we have good hearing and on top of that we were able to perceive harmonic combinations through the systematization. I suspect singer Kane Strang is an asperger, listen to his song "Oh So You're Off I See".
So you're saying that music was invented solely for the benefit of the one percent of the population who are autistic?
Virtually 100 percent of the population like music. But only 1.5 percent are autistic. So obviously music consumption is done mostly by non-autistics.
No, I'm comparing the perceptual relationship to the music. Music is much more than mere appreciation
19 Oct 2019, 2:26 am
QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Apart from the obvious fact that any given song has the same words every time, they also have an added predictability: before they ever say the first word, they have that tune that make you *know* what song are they about to sing. Now, autistics like predictability. So could it be that the music is sort of designed for them? I mean I heard people saying that autistics are good in music and that kind of stuff. But I don't think anyone ever pointed out that thing with the tune helping you predict the song. People think the predictor-tune thing is sort of a given, but to me it strikes me as autistic.
Eer... if the words and the tune weren't the same every time, it would be different music. With this logic movies, books and TV shows are all made for autistic people too since they don't change either.
But with books you have sometimes the same book in different cover. Yet with music there is always that tune before the song starts in order to help you predict what song would it be. I am not even talking about the tune during the song but right before it. Like whats the point of having that tune before the song to tell you what song you are about to listen to? Why not just start that song right away?
Music can have different covers too when talking about CDs. The cover of the CD isn't a permanent part of the music, but neither is a cover of a book part of the story.
Even though the covers of the CD-s can be different, the question remains: why are the tunes before the songs stay the same?
I realized that movies don't change either. But those journals before the movies DO change. Yet in case of the music you have that tune before the song that always stays the same. Its like trying to make sure that the journal before a specific movie stays the same so that people can predict what movie it would be just by looking at the journal.
(By journal I mean when they show brief ads of those other movies in the cinema, I don't know how to call that in English).
Because they're a part of the song like the first scene is always the same in a movie no matter how many times you watch it. If you took away the first moments of the song, you're not listening to the whole song, just like skipping the first few minutes of a movie would mean you aren't watching the whole movie.
19 Oct 2019, 4:26 am
GonHunter wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
I think you're right. The music was designed for us, we have good hearing and on top of that we were able to perceive harmonic combinations through the systematization. I suspect singer Kane Strang is an asperger, listen to his song "Oh So You're Off I See".
So you're saying that music was invented solely for the benefit of the one percent of the population who are autistic?
Virtually 100 percent of the population like music. But only 1.5 percent are autistic. So obviously music consumption is done mostly by non-autistics.
No, I'm comparing the perceptual relationship to the music. Music is much more than mere appreciation
So..
A) you claimed that you "agree" with the OP that "music was invented for autistics", but you actually...do NOT agree with him about that at all. You don't think it was invented just for autistics..
B) What you actually DO think is that autistics are somehow better at recognizing technical aspects of music than NTs.
That autistics who are non musicians and listeners are more astute than NT non musician listeners.
I myself have never seen evidence for that. I am non musician listener and I suddenly became more astute about "what tricks they use on pop songs on the radio" (like they put a little echo on that solo guitar for a few seconds there, or that song was put over a bed of a tape of instrumental music being played backward there). But that was only after I took a few courses in both music history, and in sound engineering. Not because I have always been on the autism spectrum.
19 Oct 2019, 8:53 am
naturalplastic wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
I think you're right. The music was designed for us, we have good hearing and on top of that we were able to perceive harmonic combinations through the systematization. I suspect singer Kane Strang is an asperger, listen to his song "Oh So You're Off I See".
So you're saying that music was invented solely for the benefit of the one percent of the population who are autistic?
Virtually 100 percent of the population like music. But only 1.5 percent are autistic. So obviously music consumption is done mostly by non-autistics.
No, I'm comparing the perceptual relationship to the music. Music is much more than mere appreciation
So..
A) you claimed that you "agree" with the OP that "music was invented for autistics", but you actually...do NOT agree with him about that at all. You don't think it was invented just for autistics..
B) What you actually DO think is that autistics are somehow better at recognizing technical aspects of music than NTs.
That autistics who are non musicians and listeners are more astute than NT non musician listeners.
I myself have never seen evidence for that. I am non musician listener and I suddenly became more astute about "what tricks they use on pop songs on the radio" (like they put a little echo on that solo guitar for a few seconds there, or that song was put over a bed of a tape of instrumental music being played backward there). But that was only after I took a few courses in both music history, and in sound engineering. Not because I have always been on the autism spectrum.
19 Oct 2019, 2:08 pm
GonHunter wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
I think you're right. The music was designed for us, we have good hearing and on top of that we were able to perceive harmonic combinations through the systematization. I suspect singer Kane Strang is an asperger, listen to his song "Oh So You're Off I See".
So you're saying that music was invented solely for the benefit of the one percent of the population who are autistic?
Virtually 100 percent of the population like music. But only 1.5 percent are autistic. So obviously music consumption is done mostly by non-autistics.
No, I'm comparing the perceptual relationship to the music. Music is much more than mere appreciation
So..
A) you claimed that you "agree" with the OP that "music was invented for autistics", but you actually...do NOT agree with him about that at all. You don't think it was invented just for autistics..
B) What you actually DO think is that autistics are somehow better at recognizing technical aspects of music than NTs.
That autistics who are non musicians and listeners are more astute than NT non musician listeners.
I myself have never seen evidence for that. I am non musician listener and I suddenly became more astute about "what tricks they use on pop songs on the radio" (like they put a little echo on that solo guitar for a few seconds there, or that song was put over a bed of a tape of instrumental music being played backward there). But that was only after I took a few courses in both music history, and in sound engineering. Not because I have always been on the autism spectrum.
When I listen to my own music (prog rock) I can pick out the various band members playing and follow their part of the tune playing "air guitar" if you will (though just with my finger tips). The more complex a music track is the more I like it, as long as it is a band/style I like of course.
It's the same with multi conversations in a room - I can tune to follow one or the other.
I used to work in a fairly noisy factory and it was like an industrial avant-garde music track - you know I should have recorded it and released it on Amazon or something.
Is that something anyone (everyone) can do or is it an AS thing. (multi track listening, not wanting to release CDs of work noise on Amazon).
19 Oct 2019, 3:10 pm
harry12345 wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
I think you're right. The music was designed for us, we have good hearing and on top of that we were able to perceive harmonic combinations through the systematization. I suspect singer Kane Strang is an asperger, listen to his song "Oh So You're Off I See".
So you're saying that music was invented solely for the benefit of the one percent of the population who are autistic?
Virtually 100 percent of the population like music. But only 1.5 percent are autistic. So obviously music consumption is done mostly by non-autistics.
No, I'm comparing the perceptual relationship to the music. Music is much more than mere appreciation
So..
A) you claimed that you "agree" with the OP that "music was invented for autistics", but you actually...do NOT agree with him about that at all. You don't think it was invented just for autistics..
B) What you actually DO think is that autistics are somehow better at recognizing technical aspects of music than NTs.
That autistics who are non musicians and listeners are more astute than NT non musician listeners.
I myself have never seen evidence for that. I am non musician listener and I suddenly became more astute about "what tricks they use on pop songs on the radio" (like they put a little echo on that solo guitar for a few seconds there, or that song was put over a bed of a tape of instrumental music being played backward there). But that was only after I took a few courses in both music history, and in sound engineering. Not because I have always been on the autism spectrum.
When I listen to my own music (prog rock) I can pick out the various band members playing and follow their part of the tune playing "air guitar" if you will (though just with my finger tips). The more complex a music track is the more I like it, as long as it is a band/style I like of course.
It's the same with multi conversations in a room - I can tune to follow one or the other.
I used to work in a fairly noisy factory and it was like an industrial avant-garde music track - you know I should have recorded it and released it on Amazon or something.
Is that something anyone (everyone) can do or is it an AS thing. (multi track listening, not wanting to release CDs of work noise on Amazon).
Some of what you're saying sounds like the opposite of autistic. Austistics are supposed to get overwhelmed by sensory overload in public places, and overloaded by conversations in parties, and to not be able to follow conversations.
NT musicians can zero in on the person playing the instrument they play on a recording. Nothing autistic about that. Like aa drummer guy I knew who would comment how great the drumming was on some common song on the radio in which the drummer was not drawing special attention to himself by doing solos (like when I would notice the drummer). Just the drummer being part of the ensemble.
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