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Erewhon
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25 Oct 2019, 10:43 pm

"HOW LONG IS NOW"

Recently i was 9 days in Berlin. The hostel where I stayed was on Oranienburger Straße. And in this street i came across an intriguing wall a few times a day. Not the Berlin Wall, but a wall of the former arthouse Tacheles. "How long is now" was written on that great wall. The more I started thinking about this wall saying, the harder it was for me to find an answer in my skull. A true brain teaser.
What is now :?:
If there is one now, how long will it take now :?:
Is there also one now, if I am not aware of that now :?:
Is there 1 now, or more than 1 :?:
How and where does it arise now :?:
Is my now also being someone else now :?:
When someone goes relaxed through life it is sometimes said, "He lives in the now" Even with animals that do not care about tomorrow the same. Through our memory we take the things that we experienced in the present with us into the future. Through our memory it is already a bit tight now, and when we finally arrive, it is now a bit now. Although in a different time frame, but in the past the past still runs its programs in the various brain regions. If I go and get my beloved Dick Swaab then I come to the conclusion that I am never never present at the present. After all, what it makes now (my subconscious mind) is always at least half a second ahead of what I become aware of. I never meet the creator of the now, the viewer (my consciousness) may think that now is now, incidentally, a nice illusion that I think that now too, even if I know that it is not. "Is this later :?: " Harrie Jekkers ( A dutch artist) once sang nicely. Tightly defined blocks of time that make it now into the now I do not believe in, I see those blocks of time that make it now as a kind of intertwined jet stream in my mind.

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magz
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26 Oct 2019, 4:36 am

Fundamentally...

There is Heisenberg's uncertainty principle that makes precision of measurement of time dependent of measurement of energy of the same phenomenon. The moment of time can be as short as we wish if we let energy be indefinite.

However, we can assume any phenomen we know of does not exceed energy of the whole Universe. The mass of the ordinary matter in the observable Universe is about 1.5*10^53 kg. After multiplying it by c^2 (by E = m c^2), we get 1.3*10^70 joules. That would lead to uncertainity of energy of the order of magnitude of 10^-104 seconds.

However, before we reach it, there is Planck scale - a region where quantum and gravity effects become comparable. We don't know what happens there, our experiments don't come close to it and our theories are mere speculations with a lot of beautiful Math.

Planck time is 5.39 * 10^−44 s. The Universe may have completely different structure in this timescale.


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26 Oct 2019, 5:50 pm

I remember reading the smallest discernible time difference between two stimuli is 3 ms for a human brain.

But really, it's a functional thing - "now" is there for dependent on the context it's used in and describes the time frame between the last event that mattered in this context and the next one.


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26 Oct 2019, 8:51 pm

Thanks, now I'm gonna have The Smiths stuck in my head all night. Muahhhh-nuh. Muahhhh-nuh. Duh-dadaduh.


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Erewhon
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09 Nov 2019, 6:54 am

Thanks for the Heisenberg link Magz.

I am diagnosed as a very slow-thinker. When i see the quote "How long is now" in a way my conscious experience the world in my head and the world outside my head, than my moment of NOW takes longer in a psychological way. Or am i talking crap now :?: :wink: :roll: :lol: 8)

Time stands still. time is currently timeless

Einstein may not have intended it that way, with his 'relativity', but there are cases / situations that time progresses while time still stands still. This standing still of time can be spiritual, but it can also stand still in a mechanical way. :wink: (see below)

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09 Nov 2019, 9:38 am

What if 'Now' is relative and it lasts as long as we each say? That would go along with therapy and the way PTSD individuals react to certain situations as if then were now. In their cases, Now seems to be a transient state. Now is then, until something happens to make then Now.


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09 Nov 2019, 12:18 pm

Well...

There is the "now" as in "right now I am fooling around posting on a website when I should be doing housework".

And then there is "now" as in "the GOP controls the Senate now, but the Dems now control the House".

And then there is "now the Atlantic Ocean is getting wider and Europe and American are moving apart, and the only dinosaurs around now are birds, and flowered plants now dominate flora on land".

The first "now" is measured in seconds, the second in years , the last is talking about the last 63 million years as being "now". :lol:

But they are all correct usages of the word "now".



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09 Nov 2019, 2:46 pm

Let's Put it This Way as simple as i Will, Now;

Heaven is a Place With No "Time";

Hell is a Place with All "Time";

It's Relatively Impossible to Fully Understand This, Unless You Visit Both Totally Different Perceptions Now;
And No Two Experiences Will Be anymore Identical than a Snow Flake or A Finger Print Now For Real too, Now.

The First place is so, so much Better Now; You Will Live Forever Now And Never Literally Be Any Thing Less
Than Content Now; Even if You are Dancing a Metaphorical Tight Rope in Effortless Flow, too as all becomes 'Hope/Love'.

This is Nothing New Now; Described in 'Sacred Texts' with so many Metaphors since Humans Lost their way in past and future illusions up to and including Forever Time Hell Now; where a Second May Be Perceived as A Thousand Years of No Escaping 'Time'.

But Honestly; it's Pretty useless to Describe this to someone who is rather 'Luke Cool/Warm' and has been to neither place, now.

There's always that isolated Chance; Like a Really Big Camel Passing through the smallest cultural needle eye ever now;
that someone else goes to no time now too forevermorenow; Sort of like an Anti-Raven; an Anti-Poe too; More Like
a 'Jonathan Livingston Seagull' on a 'Wrong Planet', too..:)


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24 Nov 2019, 3:57 am

"Does time actually exist :?: "

Math is a man-made construction, so in my view math has little or nothing to do with the physical particles in the universe. I view the physical material that clocks and watches are made of as a reality, which are independent of what is meant by the time indication on clocks and watches. Quite a few people look forward to the December month, well, but the December time indication with all its bells and whistles does not exist either. The concept of December is purely a construction that was invented by people. on the bottom right of my laptop it is reported that it is now November 24. All nice and nice, but if I think about it seriously, nonsense, that 24 is a human construction, and the concept of November is the same.
When I say that my world equals 1 second to what most people understand for 1 day, I am outside the reality of those people, but those people are again outside the reality of my reality.

When will people wish each other a happy New Year? They don't do this by the bank in April or August. But why not? If I decide that the new year starts in April or August then the new year also starts in April or August :) For my part 1 year lasts for which the masses need 12 years. Quite strange how my mind is trapped in man-made constructions.

I wish everyone a pleasant 'Tuesday' today :!:
And for the coming night I wish everyone a happy New Year :!:

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24 Nov 2019, 8:36 am

I've heard people say "I'll be there now, in a minute".


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naturalplastic
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24 Nov 2019, 12:38 pm

I think that we should give up the whole concept of "time".

And....the sooner we do it the better ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! ! :evil:



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01 Dec 2019, 4:03 am

I sometimes have blind spots in my mind (maybe I always suffer from blind spots :wink: ), I may also be looking at a blind spot at the moment. And therefore the question that i ask is maybe a very stupid one, it is not a rhetorical question.

What time is it currently in the middle of the sun :?:

And I do not mean whether it is currently summer, winter, spring or fall there, which I do not think they have seasons there. And I do not mean the time indications in relation to how we interpret time here on earth. I mean the mechanism that makes time in the middle of the sun. What I wonder is whether it is in the middle of the sun like in the middle of a hurricane. In the middle of a hurricane, also called the eye of the hurricane, the wind seems to be quiet, or in any case extremely much less wind than outside that eye of the hurricane.

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naturalplastic
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01 Dec 2019, 6:30 am

Youre right. You are asking a dumb question. ( BTW: am not gonna apologize for calling your posts "dumb" because I think that you do better).


The core of the sun is the most violent spot in the solar system. Imagine a hydrogen bomb going off, and then imagine the H bomb being a Roman candle that goes off continuously- for billions of years. That's something like the core of the sun.

I don't know where you got the idea that the core of the sun was in anyway like, or analogous to, the eye of hurricane. It is not. Its not a calm place. Quite the opposite.

Second: because it is violent, and because stuff happens over time (mainly atoms get fused into larger atoms) at the core of the sun, time does not stand still at the core of the sun, any more than it stands still on earth.

The galaxy (the whole milky way galaxy) is built something like a hurricane on earth is built. Sounds like you have the sun and the galaxy confused. The Galaxy doesn't have an "eye" but there is a giant black hole there.



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02 Dec 2019, 6:19 am

Thank you for your response to my dumb question. If it is really a dumb question you could easily have answered it. I don't read an answer to my question in your response. What time is it currently in the middle of the sun :?: Or it must be that you mean that due to the high activity there is a compressed time in the middle of the sun. I mean something like the opening of a balloon where blowing makes a bigger balloon. I have many more stupid questions about the concept of time. And I will place that in one of my next comments. I already know the question, and that is loud.

What is the color of time :?:

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02 Dec 2019, 9:51 am

Its the same time at the core of the sun as it is here on earth. You haven't given any reason to think that time would run any different there than on the surface of the earth.

If the sun were a black hole then time would stand still on the sun, though it would keep running on the earth.



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02 Dec 2019, 12:22 pm

The Subjective Experience of a Person Who Sees Everything in Life as a Miracle; Awesomely Indeed; is a Period of
Existence that Subjectively Lasts Much Longer as the Present now; versus one who is depressed and analyzes
Time more like a Frigging Clock; Been there done it; the More Depressed You are the More you feel like a Clock (Blah)...

But on the other Hands of 'The Clock'...

HAha (it's not really funny) it's not surprising that the Responses 'here' are limited to Objective Measures of Science;
However, Literally that is Both Time Eating and Time Depressing to View Life that Way; if different is even possible.

The Moral of this Story is one Will 'Live Longer' 'And Prosper More in Joy' in a Much Longer Perception of Life if one
Views Life more like a Miracle And As Awesome as 'Snoopy Will in a Dance'; 'these Lessons' are
Universally Human too now.

Oh, and By The Way; Looking to Fear to Experience this 'Time Flow' through Adrenaline Jacking-up Experiences
May eventually Destroy every Bodily System We Employ to Live; Seeing the Colors of Life More Beautiful; and
Yes, By 'God' Awesome as a Miracle for every Present now; is much more efficient than Sky Diving as an Addiction;
Stuff like Combat; the such as 'that' too.

Oh Yeah; And Sure as Far as Empathy Goes; if ya Wanna Expand Your Perception of Time; Hang Around Snoopy
When He Dances; Or better Yet Be Snoopy; Just Do Snoopy too; and Don't the Forget 'the Dance'..;)

From 'Professors Wiki' on "Time Perception":

"Effects of emotional states[edit]
Awe[edit]
Research has suggested the feeling of awe has the ability to expand one's perceptions of time availability. Awe can be characterized as an experience of immense perceptual vastness that coincides with an increase in focus. Consequently, it is conceivable that one's temporal perception would slow down when experiencing awe.[50]

Fear[edit]
Possibly related to the oddball effect, research suggests that time seems to slow down for a person during dangerous events (such as a car accident, a robbery, or when a person perceives a potential predator or mate), or when a person skydives or bungee jumps, where they're capable of complex thoughts in what would normally be the blink of an eye (See Fight-or-flight response).[51] This reported slowing in temporal perception may have been evolutionarily advantageous because it may have enhanced one's ability to intelligibly make quick decisions in moments that were of critical importance to our survival.[52] However, even though observers commonly report that time seems to have moved in slow motion during these events, it is unclear whether this is a function of increased time resolution during the event, or instead an illusion created by the remembering of an emotionally salient event.[53]

A strong time dilation effect has been reported for perception of objects that were looming, but not of those retreating, from the viewer, suggesting that the expanding discs — which mimic an approaching object — elicit self-referential processes which act to signal the presence of a possible danger.[54] Anxious people, or those in great fear, experience greater "time dilation" in response to the same threat stimuli due to higher levels of epinephrine, which increases brain activity (an adrenaline rush).[55] In such circumstances, an illusion of time dilation could assist an efficacious escape.[56][57] When exposed to a threat, three-year-old children were observed to exhibit a similar tendency to overestimate elapsed time.[9][58]

Research suggests that the effect appears only at the point of retrospective assessment, rather than occurring simultaneously with events as they happened.[59] Perceptual abilities were tested during a frightening experience — a free fall — by measuring people's sensitivity to flickering stimuli. The results showed that the subjects' temporal resolution was not improved as the frightening event was occurring. Events appear to have taken longer only in retrospect, possibly because memories were being more densely packed during the frightening situation.[59]

People shown extracts from films known to induce fear often overestimated the elapsed time of a subsequently presented visual stimulus, whereas people shown emotionally neutral clips (weather forecasts and stock market updates) or those known to evoke feelings of sadness showed no difference. It is argued that fear prompts a state of arousal in the amygdala, which increases the rate of a hypothesized "internal clock". This could be the result of an evolved defensive mechanism triggered by a threatening situation.[60]

Empathy[edit]
The perception of another persons' emotions can also change our sense of time. The theory of embodied mind (or cognition), caused by mirror neurons, helps explain how the perception of other people's emotions has the ability to change one's own sense of time. Embodied cognition hinges on an internal process that mimics or simulates another's emotional state. For example, if person #1 spends time with person #2 who speaks and walks incredibly slowly, person #1's internal clock may slow down.

Depression[edit]
Depression may increase one's ability to perceive time accurately. One study assessed this concept by asking subjects to estimate the amount of time that passed during intervals ranging from 3 seconds to 65 seconds.[61] Results indicated that depressed subjects more accurately estimated the amount of time that had passed than non-depressed patients; non-depressed subjects overestimated the passing of time. This difference was hypothesized to be because depressed subjects focused less on external factors that may skew their judgment of time. The authors termed this hypothesized phenomenon "depressive realism."[61]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_perception


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