Defeatism, or "Learned Helplessness".

Page 9 of 10 [ 154 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,889
Location: Stendec

12 Dec 2019, 11:31 am

Executive dysfunction is a symptom (e.g., not a diagnosis) that may signal a host of mental health or neurological conditions.  Some common causes of executive dysfunction include:

• Attention deficit hyperactivity (ADHD) and other developmental disabilities
• Dementia (i.e., Alzheimer’s, fronto-temporal dementia, vascular dementia, et cetera)
• Depression
• Drug addiction
• Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
• Schizophrenia
• Traumatic brain injuries, tumors, and other forms of brain damage. Imaging scans suggest damage to the basal ganglia and/or frontal cortex often affects executive functioning

Executive dysfunctioning can also be context dependent -- distraction, exhaustion, boredom, and stress can all undermine executive functioning.  Thus, executive dysfunction does not necessarily arise from neurological damage or alterations to the brain's 'wiring'.


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 11:32 am

No doubt.....



skibum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,295
Location: my own little world

12 Dec 2019, 11:59 am

Isn't selecting behaviors and monitoring to achieve goals just another way of saying decision making and prioritizing?


_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."

Wreck It Ralph


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

12 Dec 2019, 12:01 pm

skibum wrote:
Isn't selecting behaviors and monitoring to achieve goals just another way of saying decision making and prioritizing?

Decision making and prioriterizing in EF does not need to be concious. In healthy EF most of it isn't.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 12:07 pm

Therein lies one of the differences between AS and "normal" people.

There are some things that "normal" people can do without conscious effort and having to "learn it"----that people with AS must make a conscious effort with, and "learn."

Especially in the realm of socialization.



XFilesGeek
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,031
Location: The Oort Cloud

12 Dec 2019, 12:42 pm

skibum wrote:
My guess is that the kind of Autistics that do not have EF issues are the kind of Autistics who are able to successfully keep jobs.


I can keep a job, just not a good one.


_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."

-XFG (no longer a moderator)


skibum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,295
Location: my own little world

12 Dec 2019, 12:43 pm

I had no idea that people could do those things unconsciously. That is pretty wild. I just realized something. Maybe the fact that we do it consciously is a factor in the EF fatigue and EF overloads that I often struggle so much with.


_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."

Wreck It Ralph


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

12 Dec 2019, 12:49 pm

skibum wrote:
I had no idea that people could do those things unconsciously. That is pretty wild. I just realized something. Maybe the fact that we do it consciously is a factor in the EF fatigue and EF overloads that I often struggle so much with.

Yep.
The fatigue comes from concious mental effort required to do "normal" things.
I had the same discovery about social life.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,889
Location: Stendec

12 Dec 2019, 12:53 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
skibum wrote:
My guess is that the kind of Autistics that do not have EF issues are the kind of Autistics who are able to successfully keep jobs.
I can keep a job, just not a good one.
There are better jobs I could have, but I thank G-D I at least have a job!

...

@All: So is Executive Function synonymous with Intuition? That could explain a lot.[/color]


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 1:03 pm

"Intuition" can be employed in "executive function"----but, most of the time, it is not.

"Executive function" can be said to be a very practical thing, actually. Very empirically-based.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

12 Dec 2019, 1:09 pm

My standard way to bypass poor executive functioning are routines. My body and mind just remember the sequence of movements required to do X. It saves mental energy.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Dec 2019, 1:10 pm

The "routines" can make what is "conscious" "unconscious."



skibum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,295
Location: my own little world

12 Dec 2019, 1:23 pm

magz wrote:
My standard way to bypass poor executive functioning are routines. My body and mind just remember the sequence of movements required to do X. It saves mental energy.
Now that you mention it, I am realizing that I do the same. I don't have a lot of routines but the ones I have are very important to me. This is really making sense to me now.


_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."

Wreck It Ralph


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

12 Dec 2019, 1:29 pm

Unfortunately, I don't have a routine for cleaning my apartament. Every item I pick requires a full consideration of "what should I do with it?"
It sucks.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,575
Location: Calne,England

12 Dec 2019, 1:33 pm

For me ,it's organising and planning that are weaknesses . Multi step tasks can be hard. I have both a serious mental illness and Asperger's.
The EF problems were there before I became seriously mentally ill. Hence school reports mentioning my being disorganised and messy .



Amity
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,714
Location: Meandering

12 Dec 2019, 3:43 pm

I had special interests as a child, I believe this allowed me to reach a level of mastery and practice persistence and resilience in the face of the unknown. Small successes like those childhood special interests gave me an opportunity to practice the EF skills that I struggled with, but in the SI context I experienced a positive association to counteract the more negative associations.

I think these things helped me later on, in these areas of interest I got to practice/experience never doubting my knowledge or gowing tired of learning more, the practical application was a bit more difficult, but persistence was on my side.

These are the things autistic children need to help shape their adulthood in a way that supports independence in its relative forms.

For as difficult as life could get, I knew I had steel running through my spine, I knew I was capable of things that set me apart, even if only I knew of these capabilities and I experienced this only in specific areas.
Perhaps part of it was growing up early.

That was a more common experience once upon a time, it was the norm. I believe that pendulum has swung too far in the other direction now. Perhaps it is good naturedness/selfishness/lack of options that lead caregivers to over compensate for children with disabilities, but I believe through this inaction its adding on more layers of disability through learned helplessness.

Much like the ABA styles diverting energy towards external directives that overtax executive functioning and divert the focus away from suitable long term independence practices/internal directives.

Life on the spectrum can be difficult enough on it's own, without ever being overloaded by the areas I have to unlearn helplessness in while relying on EF that's usually on strike. :wink: