Quantum Mechanics and an Ontology of Intersubjectivity

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la_fenkis
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01 Jan 2020, 2:28 pm

Something interesting I read back in October.

Abstract:

Contemporary theology has realized the importance of integrating what we know from the “new physics”—quantum mechanics and relativity theory—into the metaphysical and ontological categories used by theology to consider God, the world, and the God-world relationship. The categories of subjectivity and relationality have risen to prominence in these discussions. Both academic and popular presentations can obscure the vital distinction between what physicists agree on concerning quantum mechanics and the contested interpretation of quantum mechanics, or what quantum mechanics reveals about reality. After (1) summarizing the significant distinction between quantum mechanics per se and the interpretations of quantum mechanics and (2) the agreed upon quantum mechanical experimental procedure and its attendant mathematical formalism, as well as a few of the foremost interpretations, this paper (3) attempts a minimalist culling of some rudimentary but clear ontological principles and categories from what is agreed upon in quantum mechanics, without appeals—tacit or explicit—to one of the many controversial interpretations or to contestable philosophical assumptions and deductions, and these are: experience, subjectivity, relationship, and event. The paper closes by (4) commending one speculative scheme that is especially conducive to developing an interpretation of quantum mechanics consonant with the ontological principles and categories so derived, that of Alfred North Whitehead.

PDF link: https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j ... 8-0025.pdf
It's 15 pages long, not too much, and each page is almost half-filled with footnotes.



TheRobotLives
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02 Jan 2020, 12:02 am

The first step would seem to be to determine whether humans have free will.

For me, I can't even cross that hurdle.

Much of the human body is automated. Germ fighting, pain signals, hunger signals, headaches, dreams, chemicals going everywhere …yet somehow there's a core part in the brain that is independent of causality and allows for pure decision-making?


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la_fenkis
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02 Jan 2020, 7:35 am

That is not in the least what this article addresses.
And it is perpendicular to the content of the article.
What is your point?



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02 Jan 2020, 8:59 am

la_fenkis wrote:
That is not in the least what this article addresses.
And it is perpendicular to the content of the article.
What is your point?

"Abstract: Contemporary theology has realized the importance of integrating what we know from the “new physics”—quantum mechanics and relativity theory—into the metaphysical and ontological categories used by theology to consider God, the world, and the God-world relationship"

Contemporary theology is trying to use quantum to prove a GOD-world.

The first step should be to prove free will.


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aghogday
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02 Jan 2020, 3:11 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTFkv2dokL4

Ontology (The Philosophical Study of Being); And How Quantum Mechanics may Relate to the Human Relative
Free Will of Mind over Matter; as Empirical Results of Strength May come Just from Imagining Exercising;
Rather than Actually Doing the Exercise itself. It's All Natural; and in Fact, this Method of Mind Over Body
Is One Process as the Two are inseparable and interrelated as shown By Science.

The Quantum Part of it as far as Speculation Goes is still unknown as the Human Conscious Experience
Is Still Not Understood By Science to Date; It does though Stand to Reason as far as Material Reductionism
That the Human Recipe of Existence is so much Greater than All the Parts of Nature that are truly inseparable
Through 'the Eyes of Quantum Mechanics so far'.

The Power of Placebo Works in a Similar Way; Far too complex in terms of 'Mind over Matter' for
any Science Study to determine the Sum Greater than Nature Parts that in deed make the Potential of
Remission from so-called Terminal Disease Possible; Filed away in the Medical Drawers of 'Remission with no specific cause'; The Magic is in the Effect; The Process is Unknown; but if you Recover From a Terminal Disease it is surely
Magic and Miracle Enough for You.

I've actually Physically Experienced this in Life; Recovering from the Pain and Numb of a Synergy of 19 Life Threatening
Disorders with no Prognosis For Recovery in a matter of Days. i Really Believed i would get Better; in Fact, i wrote About
Getting Better in Free Verse Poetry (in fact, call it a very long prayer); in Fact, i spent 24 Hours Writing About Hope Repeating all the instances of my Life Where i had Gratitude from the History of my Life on my Birthday on 6.6.13; i continued this for the Next Month and sure enough Standing on a Beach on 7.19.13, All The Pain and Numb Went Away; the Goal of my Doctors before that as i was a shut-in in my home for 66 Months; was just to walk into a
'Whataburger' for 15 minutes; that changed suddenly as now i've Public Danced 12,537 Miles;
the Distance of Halfway Around the World and a bit more; True, During the Same 76 Months
Since a Month After Recovery; i've Also Written the Longest Epic Long Form Poem Personal Bible
in the History of Humankind too; as all The Dance is Documented in those 7.6 MiLLioN Words
along with over 100,000 Photos i took; and Over 10,000 You Tube Videos too; When i was Shut-in i hardly
had the Focus Required to make a TV Dinner and would Physically Stumble if i attempted to eat it outside
in the Afternoon Breeze; Oh by the way, closing in on age 60, on 6.6.60, i still Leg Press 1520 Pounds
Max at 8 Reps; yes still at a 90 Degree Angle; One of The Voyeurs who have taken Videos of me Dancing
Went Viral with over 88 Thousand Views; out of 1300 or so Comments From the Locality i Live; i am
assessed from Legend; to Local Icon; as per Documentation in my Personal Bible Poem too; True
not all the Comments Were So Stellar and Sweet; ain't that How Life Goes in 'Trump Town USA'
Where no one Dances in Public but me; true though now at 240 Pounds of Muscle the Good
Old Straight Line Marching Christian Soldier Boys No Longer Bully me like they did for my
Previous Androgyny And Asperger's Syndrome Related Lack of Social Graces then too; yes,
in my Life of Youth, Plentiful With Smiles too; as now when i Free Verse Ballet With a Martial
Arts Free Verse Mix of Public Dance; yes in Autotelic Meditative Flow; let's Just say 'they' keep
their distance from me now; hehe.

Mind over Matter; Relative Free Will; Will Only Be Measured by each Individual Power of Belief
And Imagination in Visualizing Effective Results that Work; There is the Relative Free Will of Placebo
Belief as there is the Negative Force of Nocebo Naysaying IN Life too; as Relative Free Will may in Effect
Be Prayer that Works and Voodoo That is real; that is surely Scientifically Measured too; Believe hard
enough that you will Die by a Specified Date and Find Yourself ill with that happening Next.

Believe enough in Getting Well and Getting Stronger than Ever Before close to age 60; Take
The Action and Measure the Relative Free Will of that in Empirical Results that are irrefutable too.

It's True Some folks Exercise their Human Potential of Relative Free Will in the Philosophy of Being
That is Mind Over the Matter of our Bodies that are Interrelated and Inseparable like the Rest of Nature
As Science Shows too; Those who do not believe in this Kind of Magic that Does Make Magic Miracles Real
And All Natural too; simply miss out on their greater Human Potential; And Additionally, they May never find
An Autotelic Flow of Heaven Within now; as Yes, Science Surely provides Evidence That 'Heaven Within'
is both Attainable in Real Life Results and May Be Kept in a Staycation by something as Simple as A
Spiraling Meditating Moving Dance; thing is, the testing so far is limited and often only a few short
Sessions of Meditation in Flow to Date; What if; What if; A person lived almost their entire
Life in Autotelic Flow of Mind and Body Soul Balancing With Relative Free Will that makes
Heaven Within Real...

i'll Let y'all know in A Month, A Year, 10 Years, and perhaps even 20; in how i grow even Stronger
in Will in Mind and Body Balancing Force in Flow Next; on a Foundation of Love And Grace of Balance
Where i continue to Flow With Gravity; no Different really than Planets that Stay in Orbit Around Stars and do Not Fall.

Within, Outside, Inside, Above So Below, And All Around All Spirals When in Flow; Be A Planet that Stays up do not fall;

Works for me at least as i continue to Rise for Real; and Show How All My Human Potential Improves Just for one Case
Study Record NoW iN all the Arts i Love to do.

i don't need a Science Project to show me what is possible in my Life at least; for the Effect is Irrefutable as 'God'
Exists as the Higher Force in Us (me at least) when We come Awake as part of All is Energy Force Positive More as Spirit of
HeART and Soul Balancing Now for Real; Fear is a Source of Most Stress And Eventual Disease; No Fear for me; buried it alive; it's not a Magic Incantation Alone; or Even Just the Visualization of Imagination alone; True, once Again it is
Moving Meditation; Halfway Around the Globe in Distance in Public for 76 Months Documented and Real; Takes Work too.

Not waiting on A Science Abstract to achieve the Next all Real Natural Miracle on my own; Simply Because
We Are Already All that is Part in Parcel; Some Folks Just have not Woken Up to the Fuller Potential of what is Possible
in life; the First Step is Belief; Belief Unto itself; the Second Step is Faith in Belief that Works; The Most Important
Part is Finding a Dance And Song in Life that works; After that a Tight Rope Dance Becomes Relative Ease Effortless as
Mind is Matter; Matter is Mind; All is Mind This Way; All Are Eyes of Reality Us too; some Folks Having Much smaller Views than others for real; both in Cause and Effect Now as Karma is what we do or do not do next; with the Force of Belief the Energy of all our Emotions and Senses Set Naked and Fear Free.

If one can/will get a Naysayer just one 'Mustard Seed of Faith' to use an overall Tired Old But Real Cliche that truly works in something truly Magical all Natural With Miracles like this; they just might step up and Meet their Fuller Potential Next; if a Science Abstract Provides that Spark; more Power to it all; But i for one have Danced And Sung Well Past any Science Projects just on Paper now; or even in an older more Antiquated 'Bible' too; SPeaKing of the Metaphor of "John 14:12" as it too is rather Progressive versus "Romans 10:9" For me at least as the Irrefutable Proof Does Suggest now at least with SMiLes; SMiLes Are A Most Important ParT; When Sincere And Real They Connect 'The Force of LoVE' iN Synergy Now Real
of Human ParTs GLobe Wide More; My Current Project is "Color World Love 2020'; Will Get Back to that now of course..:)

But First Gotta get to the Gym; And Then Dance A 3 Hour Marathon of Public Dance with College Age Folks; None of Course Who Will Care to Keep up for the duration of that; the 292nd Week of Doing that too; Life is Good When You are
40 Years Older than the Peers on the Dance Floor; And Still Cooking A Pot of Stew that is relatively SpeaKinG Still Red Hot.

"A Reality" is Entropy Will Catch Up with me; as far as anyone else knows at least; i don't discount Possibilities though; if i did; Chances are i would have Died over a Decade ago; Just because 'it' hasn't been done yet; don't rule out Possibilities;
Even if no one else gives you a chance but you; that's how We come in and Leave this World Together still Just one Force of Energy Eternally Now; that's how me and Yoda still see it a LeasT; hehe.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... g-weights/


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jimmy m
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02 Jan 2020, 7:18 pm

The title of this thread almost makes me wonder if it was written by a computer program.

Quantum Mechanics and an Ontology of Intersubjectivity

Quantum Mechanics - the branch of mechanics that deals with the mathematical description of the motion and interaction of subatomic particles, incorporating the concepts of quantization of energy, wave-particle duality, the uncertainty principle, and the correspondence principle.

Ontology - the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being.

Putting these two together - Quantum Ontology is an outstanding guide to contemporary philosophy of quantum mechanics. The book's intended audience is philosophers who are knowledgeable about metaphysics and curious about the relevance of quantum mechanics to metaphysical debates.

Intersubjectivity - Intersubjectivity, in philosophy, psychology, sociology, and anthropology, is the psychological relation between people. It is usually used in contrast to solipsistic individual experience, emphasizing our inherently social being.

Putting these all together sounds like a mishmash that almost makes me want to cringe.

So although I might agree that the study of physics especially modern physics may explain elements of the physical world from a religious perspective. Such as the origin of the Universe, How did the Great Flood Occur, and what happened at the Tower of Babel. This whole discussion seems like someone using physics terms that I suspect they do not comprehend to offer metaphysical analogies.



la_fenkis
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03 Jan 2020, 12:24 pm

jimmy m wrote:
Putting these all together sounds like a mishmash that almost makes me want to cringe.


As it should when you attempt to use a dictionary that way, which is an "argument from the dictionary" and is considered an informal logical fallacy. The intersubjectivity herein described is of a much more basic kind than the one that gets applied to domains that involve the human mind. It's a fairly specialized use of the term so you won't find it in the description text underneath the first google result, but the paper gives a good sense of what is meant by the word.