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firemonkey
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04 Jan 2020, 3:54 am

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The uneven geography of economic development and a “winner-take-all” system make our electoral system stacked against left-wing parties. But that doesn’t mean leftists living under that system can’t still win.



https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/elec ... all-system

Mainly about the USA , but a fair amount of comment about the UK also .


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Bradleigh
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04 Jan 2020, 4:11 am

So it is the argument of people who vote on the right make up the more rural areas where smaller populations are represented by larger areas of land. I would also argue that right wing parties are more likely to lie and play on emotion of fear and dangers of progress, doing advertisements that stretch the truth as much as possible as long as they can play it into narratives against dangerous groups. The left in a lot these countries on the other hand hold themselves to a higher quality, and usually don't want to play the same games of attack campaigns, because their on average more educated voters would turn their backs.


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AlanMooresBeard
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04 Jan 2020, 8:05 am

Thanks for posting the article, firemonkey. Some very interesting observations there.



TheRobotLives
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04 Jan 2020, 9:36 am

The left has won!

We're heavily taxed (Equality!)
Our standard of living is being outsourced to the poor of the world (Equality!)
Immigrants are coming, coming, coming (Equality!)
LGBTQI is mainstream (Equality!)
White people are becoming minorities in historically racist countries (Equality!)

How much further "equalization" needs to be done?


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XFilesGeek
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04 Jan 2020, 9:47 am

The Left loses elections in the U.S. because people have been brainwashed into voting against their own interests.


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Twilightprincess
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04 Jan 2020, 11:35 am

I really would like to see large scale studies that look into religious influences on politics, perhaps surveys that ask for religious affiliations and political party memberships that could be kept anonymous.

I think it’s probably a huge factor when it comes to elections.



AlanMooresBeard
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04 Jan 2020, 12:25 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
The Left loses elections in the U.S. because people have been brainwashed into voting against their own interests.


It's pretty much the same in the UK too. Our media, especially newspapers, are heavily biased towards the right and any party even vaguely on the left gets a rough ride as a result.



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04 Jan 2020, 12:34 pm

AlanMooresBeard wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
The Left loses elections in the U.S. because people have been brainwashed into voting against their own interests.


It's pretty much the same in the UK too. Our media, especially newspapers, are heavily biased towards the right and any party even vaguely on the left gets a rough ride as a result.


Ours are mostly biased towards the Left but that does not reflect how the average person thinks. It’s odd in that sense.

I saw a bumper sticker on a car the other day that said: “I don’t trust the liberal media.” So, apparently, they trust the conservative media?

People tend to doubt whatever an outlet says if it doesn’t conform to their politics. Most conservatives only watch the few sources that are Right leaning. Most liberals stay with Left leaning sources.

It would be nice to have less bias and more centrist forms of media. But the sensational news items that contain the most bias get the highest ratings...



shlaifu
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04 Jan 2020, 10:12 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
The left has won!

We're heavily taxed (Equality!)
Our standard of living is being outsourced to the poor of the world (Equality!)
Immigrants are coming, coming, coming (Equality!)
LGBTQI is mainstream (Equality!)
White people are becoming minorities in historically racist countries (Equality!)

How much further "equalization" needs to be done?


A tiny fraction isn't paying taxes, their standard of living is not being equalized with the rest of the world. Of the last 30 year's growth in wealth, a third went to china, another to the rest of the developing countries, and the last third went to the 0.1 percent of the wealthiest people in the world.
It's okay that the developing world is catching up. But a Billion chinese people got as much wealth growth as a million rich people.

It's not about equality, it's about not paying for someome to be filthy rich and who refuses to help me out (i.e., not paying taxes to build social structures).

LGBT rights are great, but they basically only got the right to be in an equally moserable situation as anyone else who needs to work for a living, what leftie theory calls 'the working class'.

White people "are becoming" minorities?
Do you mean white people are projected to become, under the condition that immigration and birth rates and whatnot stay the same? - the condition is important.
In my country, white people are scared they will be a minority soon, because there's currently 6% Turkish population, with a slightly higher birthrate in the first generation of immigrants. Under the cindition that fertility stayed like that might become a majority in 5 generations or so, i.e., 150 years, but alas, the second generation's birthrate tends to drop down to first world levels. So... "Are becoming" is not the same as "are projected to become, under certain conditions"


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charkie
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05 Jan 2020, 10:43 pm

AlanMooresBeard wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
The Left loses elections in the U.S. because people have been brainwashed into voting against their own interests.


It's pretty much the same in the UK too. Our media, especially newspapers, are heavily biased towards the right and any party even vaguely on the left gets a rough ride as a result.


This is the worst. I am of the opinion that democracy is basically dead here; the liberal media is an incredibly powerful propaganda device, far beyond any state media, because it creates this impression of a plurality of voices - of democratic expression - while essentially being the voice of one class. The Tories winning the election makes me angry in the same way that conmen pulling a confidence trick on my nan would make me angry. In a situation where people are dying so that Amazon doesn't have to pay tax, people are voting in favour of Amazon -- it's because voters are ignorant, not because they love death. Of course, this issue was never mentioned anywhere, whereas baseless antisemitism accusations against Corbyn were repeated ad nauseum everywhere; like we were supposed to believe that a man with a past of principled anti-racist and anti-imperialist activism has a facile hatred of jews?! But muddying the water is enough for the majority of low-info voters who would otherwise vote Labour.



Brictoria
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05 Jan 2020, 11:13 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
The Left loses elections in the U.S. because people have been brainwashed into voting against their own interests.


Or, could it be that the left lose elections in the U.S. as they have been brainwashed into assuming everyone is the same and has the same interests as their own?

Then again, it's probably much easier to assume people have been brainwashed into whatever belief than to actually go out, talk to people, and listen to what they say...And to tell people (or assume) what their interests are rather than ask them.



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06 Jan 2020, 12:01 am

Jonathan Haidt wrote an entire book on why the left loses elections, and his thesis is they fundamentally don't understand the values of the right and fail to appeal to people who have those. They also underestimate how many people share these values.

Essentially the vocal left is concentrated in the Northeast, the California coast, and the Pacific Northwest. They don't even understand the midwest democrats of Pennsylvania and Michigan let alone southern republicans. Thus their theories about what plays in an election tend to be off base. It's why they're surprised Joe Biden has more support than Bernie Sanders, and shocked that Donald Trump won an election.

I happen to agree with this analysis. For all his bombast Donald Trump was not a traditional conservative but rather a right-leaning populist. People misunderstand this when they tend to paint him as far right. This distinction has been lost because the conservatives have since adopted his positions and he has drifted more far right in his stated positions, but in 2015-2016 there was a noticeable difference between the politics of Donald Trump and say Ted Cruz.


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06 Jan 2020, 1:09 am

Antrax wrote:
Jonathan Haidt wrote an entire book on why the left loses elections, and his thesis is they fundamentally don't understand the values of the right and fail to appeal to people who have those. They also underestimate how many people share these values.

Essentially the vocal left is concentrated in the Northeast, the California coast, and the Pacific Northwest. They don't even understand the midwest democrats of Pennsylvania and Michigan let alone southern republicans. Thus their theories about what plays in an election tend to be off base. It's why they're surprised Joe Biden has more support than Bernie Sanders, and shocked that Donald Trump won an election.

I happen to agree with this analysis. For all his bombast Donald Trump was not a traditional conservative but rather a right-leaning populist. People misunderstand this when they tend to paint him as far right. This distinction has been lost because the conservatives have since adopted his positions and he has drifted more far right in his stated positions, but in 2015-2016 there was a noticeable difference between the politics of Donald Trump and say Ted Cruz.



^This is probably the best textbook explanation. ^

I can't speak for anyone else, but my husband and I voted for Trump as an act of defiance. After eight years of Obama, we were so sick of being told what to think, what was right, what was wrong, who was important that we did our best impression of middle aged revolt.

And the left is still attempting to dictate what is right/wrong, even on the small scales like Wrong Planet. I don't need anyone to be my conscience, right my wrongs, etc... Just uphold the Constitution, the laws, make sound economic decisions and then back off. The left wants to infiltrate every crevice and they just aren't welcome, in our lives anyway. They used to be that way, but then something happened. I don't know when or how, but somehow the left gained access to places they'd never been welcome before. And my husband and I both changed our political affiliations before the 2016 election.


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XFilesGeek
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06 Jan 2020, 1:11 am

Brictoria wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
The Left loses elections in the U.S. because people have been brainwashed into voting against their own interests.


Or, could it be that the left lose elections in the U.S. as they have been brainwashed into assuming everyone is the same and has the same interests as their own?

Then again, it's probably much easier to assume people have been brainwashed into whatever belief than to actually go out, talk to people, and listen to what they say...And to tell people (or assume) what their interests are rather than ask them.


You don't have the slightest idea of who I've talked to, or what I've concluded from such talks.

If people insist on putting the interests of billionaires over their own futures, then I'm inclined to believe that they have a few loose bolts rattling around in the 'ole brain pan.


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06 Jan 2020, 1:21 am

Persephone29 wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Jonathan Haidt wrote an entire book on why the left loses elections, and his thesis is they fundamentally don't understand the values of the right and fail to appeal to people who have those. They also underestimate how many people share these values.

Essentially the vocal left is concentrated in the Northeast, the California coast, and the Pacific Northwest. They don't even understand the midwest democrats of Pennsylvania and Michigan let alone southern republicans. Thus their theories about what plays in an election tend to be off base. It's why they're surprised Joe Biden has more support than Bernie Sanders, and shocked that Donald Trump won an election.

I happen to agree with this analysis. For all his bombast Donald Trump was not a traditional conservative but rather a right-leaning populist. People misunderstand this when they tend to paint him as far right. This distinction has been lost because the conservatives have since adopted his positions and he has drifted more far right in his stated positions, but in 2015-2016 there was a noticeable difference between the politics of Donald Trump and say Ted Cruz.



^This is probably the best textbook explanation. ^

I can't speak for anyone else, but my husband and I voted for Trump as an act of defiance. After eight years of Obama, we were so sick of being told what to think, what was right, what was wrong, who was important that we did our best impression of middle aged revolt.

And the left is still attempting to dictate what is right/wrong, even on the small scales like Wrong Planet. I don't need anyone to be my conscience, right my wrongs, etc... Just uphold the Constitution, the laws, make sound economic decisions and then back off. The left wants to infiltrate every crevice and they just aren't welcome, in our lives anyway. They used to be that way, but then something happened. I don't know when or how, but somehow the left gained access to places they'd never been welcome before. And my husband and I both changed our political affiliations before the 2016 election.



Have you considered you might be unwittingly voting against your own economic and other interests?

I don't get the impression that the Left in the US wants to "infiltrate every crevice" but I do think they need to leave negative politics behind and explain what they really want to do differently to the current administration, if they want to succeed at the polls. They also need to have a show of unity because unfortunately, gratifying a few personal egos seem more important than what's best for the party.


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