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Sweetleaf
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09 Mar 2020, 4:04 am

What is this? Like what in the freaking hell is this...I don't recognize it and its legitimately starting to freak me out, and I don't know what to do. Was everything I got taught in school a lie, is democracy really a failed experiment, what the hell is going on? Can't seem to get a clear story from anywhere. I suppose the worst part is knowing I am very much awake and the nightmare still continues...I just wish I could wake up from this, but this time around its reality

Seriously what is this, can it be real...uhh for f**k sake wake me up when election season ends or not, not even sure I want to see how it pans out...Either way I don't know what this is, but I am not enjoying it.


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Sweetleaf
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09 Mar 2020, 4:13 am

Virus outbreak in the world, every other country taking it seriously and over we have trump complaining about fake news smearing him when he failed to accept testing kits for the virus that would have been provided, actuallly refused them cause 'here in the U.S we were working on our own solution' well our own solution was too freaking late outbreak is already here and the U.S production never came up with enough kits to adequately test for the virus. We could have just accepted the test that was going to be provided but no. Ole Trump had something better or so he said.

His dumb decision put thousands of U.S citizens at risk.


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magz
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09 Mar 2020, 4:18 am

It's just the "we're the best" propaganda breaking apart.
The US are not the worst place in the world but certainly there are a lot of unadressed issues.
Democracy has its flaws just like any other political system - Power Corrupts and no system is free from it.
I see the shift towards "we've been the bad guys too... sorry" in popular culture. Digesting it will probably take a few decades and in the meantime, various symptoms of sickness may apppear.
Ultimately, humans will most likely adapt to whatever comes next.


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Karamazov
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09 Mar 2020, 6:28 am

I’m paste quoting in one of my posts from January, that gives my thoughts on the general cultural forces lying behind a lot of what’s happening in terms of big politics across the West in our times: in the hope that it’ll be helpful food for thought:

(The original thread was on cancel culture and affirmative action for context, and had got rather heated: which is why I concluded the way I did... the thread died two posts after this one.)

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I’d think it would be more accurate to characterise what has occurred as the slow disintegration of the moral/ethical universe that was inherited down to the ‘50s/early 60s over a period from roughly 1965-95.
Symbolically one could think of this as Hippies, followed by Punks followed by Thatcher/Reaganite Neoliberals. (I’m including the last since in effect, although certainly not in intent, they undermined much of the presumed standards in state and corporate management).
However: no culture or society can survive as a group without some form of basic shared values.
Hence we see the rise of contemporary radical liberal puritanism.
Puritanism in the sense of absolute iron certainties, coupled with a fear of being ostracised and/or subjected to public humiliation for failing to demonstrate an adequate level of virtue.

This has happened before:
•the debauchery of the Roman Republic followed by the neo-moral culture of Augustus reign.
• the collapse of the Pagan ethnical-religious system and effective governance followed by the Christianisation of the Roman Empire
• the corruption of monasticism and clerical standards followed by the Reformation and Counter-Reformation
• the C18th high baroque era of elite self indulgence (and the emergence of industrial scale slavery) followed by C19th revivalist Christian moral crusades and abolitionism.

None of these movements were uncontested, and none were wholly successful in terms of their aims.
All of them, with the benefit of hindsight, can be seen to have had a false sense of their own inevitable and necessary absolute victory.

But, they all had an advantage over the current iteration of the theme: higher birth rates and shorter life spans: allowing the young radicals greater relative leeway to achieve their broad objectives.

In summation I think we could all, regardless of our position on the contested issues of the day benefit from taking a deep breath, a pause for thought, and treading carefully.
Lest we trample each other’s virtues into the mire.


I’d just like to add to make my thoughts more relevant to your concerns that these type of long, slow-burn cultural shifts are utterly terrifying for people who identify with the disintegrating order, or with the disintegration as an end point in itself: this can lead to poor decision making when it comes to casting ballots in elections, and primaries such as your countries political system has.

Sorry I can’t offer anything more than a sorrowful dissection of how I see it.



kraftiekortie
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09 Mar 2020, 10:28 am

Trust me-----if you go to a place like Nigeria, you would greatly miss the Good Old USA, warts and all!



Karamazov
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09 Mar 2020, 10:48 am

^ :lol:
Very good point: for all the factiousness and such, the wider West is still the least hostile series of environments to be human in. Often, unfortunately, by a very wide margin.



Kiprobalhato
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09 Mar 2020, 3:26 pm

OUR country is being held hostage by greedy, corrupt, power hungry sociopathic boomers with no morals who see fit to chip away at the institutions and safety nets, carefully built up over generations to serve everyone, and abuse whatever is left to line their pockets and make everything for their own personal gain, in accordance to the worldview shaped by their privileged childhoods. "screw you, i got mine" mentality runs rampant in this country, among all generations, but we're feeling the effect most from the one who actually has power - and will not let it go, the metaphor of the "dying establishment" is most apparent in the prospect of the 2020 election - a race between two corrupt, senile old men, who have no meaningful differences in their disastrous beliefs to speak of, only registered in different parties. if it comes to trump or biden, i know i'm staying home. a vote for a "lesser evil" is still a vote for an evil.

when you look at the seed population of america, it all makes sense. religious fanatics, outcasts of all shapes and creeds who could not make it in europe, it makes sense that they would create a country that would be another pariah itself.

what you are seeing right now are the unmistakable symptoms of systemic rot like karamazov pointed out, and all the f**kery that's going on is just the establishment in a more frantic and desperate attempt to save itself as they literally die out and see the writing on the wall.

so what will you do? are you gonna help make this a better place?


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kraftiekortie
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10 Mar 2020, 7:30 am

Biden is much less a threat to our liberties than Trump.



BTDT
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10 Mar 2020, 7:34 am

I clearly remember a Trump supporter saying he didn't want to pay for other people's health care. He had a good job that provided good heath care.



kraftiekortie
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10 Mar 2020, 7:40 am

Good for him.

People have to think beyond their mere personal experience.

Trump, if he was able, would dispense with the Constitution and rule by decree.



EzraS
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10 Mar 2020, 7:53 am

Just stop watching the news. Then all you will know about is your daily routine.



Karamazov
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10 Mar 2020, 7:57 am

^ I haven’t watched or read the news for weeks. (Since corona started)
I’m much less anxious, and I’ve finished five miniature compositions in the time I would’ve spent fretting.
Result! :D



kraftiekortie
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10 Mar 2020, 8:07 am

The people who are suffering most are the investors in the stock/commodities markets.



Kiprobalhato
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10 Mar 2020, 8:36 am

EzraS wrote:
Just stop watching the news. Then all you will know about is your daily routine.


yeah...i bet that sounds like bliss :coffee:

BTDT wrote:
I clearly remember a Trump supporter saying he didn't want to pay for other people's health care. He had a good job that provided good heath care.


see what i mean

people in that camp always act like americans don't already pay assloads of taxes and "paying for other people's healthcare" would be un unacceptable additional burden. so many don't realize that they are already paying as much as they would be under a plan that *makes sense*, the profits are just lining the pockets of insurance/pharmaceutical company management and not helping their fellow man.

somewhere along the way we stopped caring about our fellow man.

where? why?


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blackicmenace
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10 Mar 2020, 12:57 pm

Kiprobalhato wrote:
somewhere along the way we stopped caring about our fellow man.

where? why?


^Because it isn't profitable and corporations are allowed to be run like psychopathic mass murders. Perhaps corporations need a death penalty.


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Karamazov
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10 Mar 2020, 1:28 pm

^ or maybe some effective, well-drafted regulations: with a properly funded and staffed bureaucracy to administer them.
And requisite penalties that are actually enforced.
(We could sure do with that this side of the pond)

:P I’ve become a centrist dad haven’t I? :P