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Archmage Arcane
Velociraptor
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05 May 2020, 6:57 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
We have to come up with another term other than “ableism.”

There’s nothing wrong with an ideology which emphasizes the ability of people...even those with disabilities.


How about "neurotypical privilege"?



TimmyTurnerFan1
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06 May 2020, 7:24 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
We have to come up with another term other than “ableism.”

There’s nothing wrong with an ideology which emphasizes the ability of people...even those with disabilities.


How about "autisism?" I came up with that one after some troll came on Deviant Art saying bad things about us autistic people. And I came up with the word "autisist," to describe someone who's prejudiced against autistic people. See this journal I made for more info https://www.deviantart.com/willm3luvtra ... -836316927

I'm sorry mother was like that to you. I think you should talk to her, respectfully and tactfully but firmly.

My mother used to tell me "I cannot do your thinking for you," which maybe she was right but I didn't know how to respond to that and I could do my own thinking but I didn't know how to tell her and that got on my nerves and discouraged me. But my mother was more understanding and is even more so thank goodness.

My stepfather was more critical of me, even calling me lazy or saying things like "Deal with it," and took "I can't help it," as a lame excuse and refused to take it. My stepfather also hated me isolating myself from others and made me go outside and play when I wanted to play indoors!

But to be fair my stepfather wasn't as bad and mean as other people's fathers, and my mother told me he said he didn't realize some things were beyond my capabilities. And I too frustrated my parents!

But I'm sorry you went through all that. :(

Some neurotypicals are nice and some actually like autistic people.



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06 May 2020, 8:13 am

Yes ... that's exactly what we need ... more labels ...

:roll: Not.


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07 May 2020, 8:18 am

Anything that is the majority dictates what is normal in society.

If you don’t have friends (whether or not a person has friends is always debatable), a NT family member will often try to “help” by offering advice-sometimes to the point of nagging. Same with jobs and appearance and all sorts of other things.

Neurotypicals can make mistakes in trying to speak plainly to autistics and it can come off as mean. It goes the other way too.

We all have to communicate clearly with others if they are bothering us in some way, or else they shouldn’t be expected to understand the issue or change their behavior.



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07 May 2020, 4:07 pm

I think in NT world people think of things much more in the sense of winning and losing. Like...it's really hard for me to conceptualize sometimes how they think.

I think my mind does a lot of systematizing, looking for patterns, finding solutions in that. And of course I have that ASD tic of being ridiculously blunt because *it's the truth* and doesn't everyone value the truth above all else? In short, no they do not.

There is just a level of complexity of communication that NT's have that I pretty much have concluded at this point that I will never be able to reach. I can't see it, even thought it's going on right in front of me.

I've recently been on the receiving end of the most vicious behavior that has ever happened to me in my life, aside from sexual assault. It was all because I started interacting with an NT online, and I didn't identify myself as ASD and I had no business interacting in that way w/ them online knowing my deficits. I mean hyper NT just not regular NT, very successful/accomplished etc, i.e. someone w/ advanced social skills. Mine suck. They always have, they always will. It's just like oil and water, ASD/NT interaction sometimes. We are too blunt and filterless and we absolutely don't mean it most of the time, it just comes out so wrong. And in their world that's a major offense. Because they think of what their motivations would be if they said something like that. But we don't think the way they do.

I forgot all that and it created a big disaster in my life. Basically I think we are operating from different sets of motives when we speak. This is probably in the top five in terms of the ASD issues I've struggled with in life. Just how to basically conversate with them. For me I end up making people hate me because i am so blunt and in my mind I'm just being honest or in some ways compassionate. It's so frustrating. :cry:



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07 May 2020, 4:20 pm

mchkry wrote:
I think in NT world people think of things much more in the sense of winning and losing. Like...it's really hard for me to conceptualize sometimes how they think.

I think my mind does a lot of systematizing, looking for patterns, finding solutions in that. And of course I have that ASD tic of being ridiculously blunt because *it's the truth* and doesn't everyone value the truth above all else? In short, no they do not.

There is just a level of complexity of communication that NT's have that I pretty much have concluded at this point that I will never be able to reach. I can't see it, even thought it's going on right in front of me.

I've recently been on the receiving end of the most vicious behavior that has ever happened to me in my life, aside from sexual assault. It was all because I started interacting with an NT online, and I didn't identify myself as ASD and I had no business interacting in that way w/ them online knowing my deficits. I mean hyper NT just not regular NT, very successful/accomplished etc, i.e. someone w/ advanced social skills. Mine suck. They always have, they always will. It's just like oil and water, ASD/NT interaction sometimes. We are too blunt and filterless and we absolutely don't mean it most of the time, it just comes out so wrong. And in their world that's a major offense. Because they think of what their motivations would be if they said something like that. But we don't think the way they do.

I forgot all that and it created a big disaster in my life. Basically I think we are operating from different sets of motives when we speak. This is probably in the top five in terms of the ASD issues I've struggled with in life. Just how to basically conversate with them. For me I end up making people hate me because i am so blunt and in my mind I'm just being honest or in some ways compassionate. It's so frustrating. :cry:

Welcome to WP

Can you tell me more about the conversation you had with the nt? I am very interested in the specifics of what happened. Thank you


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mchkry
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07 May 2020, 7:24 pm

ugh....I am trying to quit smoking right now, I don't even want to think about it. well for one thing i can't flirt, lol. & I just blurt out the truth and NT people think that you are being intentionally hurtful when you do that, like you have this motive like you are trying to hurt their feelings and take them down. So they like batten down the hatches and try to make you pay. It's weird. Whereas a lot us are like it's important to say the truth. Honestly i wonder how I made it to adulthood sometimes.



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07 May 2020, 7:53 pm

mchkry wrote:
ugh....I am trying to quit smoking right now, I don't even want to think about it. well for one thing i can't flirt, lol. & I just blurt out the truth and NT people think that you are being intentionally hurtful when you do that, like you have this motive like you are trying to hurt their feelings and take them down. So they like batten down the hatches and try to make you pay. It's weird. Whereas a lot us are like it's important to say the truth. Honestly i wonder how I made it to adulthood sometimes.
Yes. I understand that scenario very well. It is a brutal one for us. It kind of boils down to the fact that they have no theory of mind. That is what makes it so difficult for us to communicate with them. Good on you for trying to quit smoking. That is wonderful and I really hope that you succeed. I will pray that you do. Keep us posted with that.


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17 Jul 2020, 1:40 am

It seems Like your mom wants the best for you, but she isn't able to express that in a caring or constructive manner.

As for making friends or building a successful career maybe this will help...

Neurotypicals (at least ones that are uneducated about autism) don't understand that those with autism don't interact the same as they do. I learned to better interact by deconstructing the word. Inter- a prefix meaning between and act- a fictitious display. Essentially in order to get beyond the protective walls neurotypicals build up to protect themselves it is necessary to get them to stop interacting and get them to relax around you. I have found that people like to talk about themselves and enjoy when someone asks them for more details about whatever personal story they are telling. When this is done tactfully the other person will see you as someone they enjoy talking to instead of merely interacting with. At that point a friendship could start to develop (usually you will have to find yourself enjoying their stories as well for this to happen) or a more comfortable professional/work environment will occur. For myself, as I'm sure it is with lot's of people on the spectrum, this is not instinctual to ask someone to go into more detail about themselves. In the beginning it may be necessary to pretend that you are interested. That's the acting part.

I will give you an example of how I used this strategy in my workplace. I had been working for the same company for several years and then it was sold. The new owner know nothing about me and I knew nothing about him. Shortly after he took over I was in his office to discuss a project that was assigned to me. I took the opportunity to scan his office for something I could mention that was non work related and noticed he had several hand drawn pictures of spiderman hanging in his office. I pointed to the wall and said "That's a fair size collection you've got going here." He simply agreed. I could have left it at that but I followed up by asking him if he had a favorite. And that's when he got passionate about it, telling me details about how he gets them from the same artist every year at comicon and eventually telling me that his wife told him to get the pictures out of the house because she thinks they look cheap.
I wouldn't say that my boss and myself are friends, but since that day we are very comfortable around each other. I've been working for him for nearly five years now and have seen many skilled employees come and go simply because he did not like them.



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17 Jul 2020, 5:17 am

I remember when I was nearly 18 a flyer came in the mail addressed to me, advertising how to book a local hall have a party and iñvite all your friends. My mum came into my bedroom while I was still asleep and said "there's an advertisement on how to celebrate your 18th birthday but it's no point because you haven't got any friends", and she left the room. Well, that was a bad start to my Saturday, as it reminded me of how friendless I was and made me feel so ashamed. I got up and started yelling, swearing, crying and hitting myself. I don't think my mum intended to make me feel bad though, I think she was just saying it how it is.

But what really got me was why they'd send things like that to young people in the mail, as not every teenager has lots of friends and it can make unpopular people like myself feel bad about themselves.


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17 Jul 2020, 9:24 am

MagicMeerkat wrote:
I've found autistic people can be just as mean too. I don't post here as much as I used to once upon a time for that very reason.


I've noticed this as well and it's impacted the frequency of my posting.


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17 Jul 2020, 10:23 am

They are more ignorant than mean. They don’t have first hand experience of being autistic so they don’t understand.



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17 Jul 2020, 12:06 pm

livingwithautism wrote:
They are more ignorant than mean.  They don’t have first hand experience of being autistic so they don’t understand.
Neither do any of us have first-hand experience of being "normal" -- does that make us any better?


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livingwithautism
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17 Jul 2020, 12:38 pm

Fnord wrote:
livingwithautism wrote:
They are more ignorant than mean.  They don’t have first hand experience of being autistic so they don’t understand.
Neither do any of us have first-hand experience of being "normal" -- does that make us any better?


It’s not about better or worse, it’s just different. We are all just people and nobody fully understands everyone else.



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17 Jul 2020, 12:47 pm

livingwithautism wrote:
Fnord wrote:
livingwithautism wrote:
They are more ignorant than mean.  They don’t have first hand experience of being autistic so they don’t understand.
Neither do any of us have first-hand experience of being "normal" -- does that make us any better?
It’s not about better or worse, it’s just different. We are all just people and nobody fully understands everyone else.
Then I have to wonder why not all of us believe this, and see fit only to bash "neurotypicals" for being mean when some of us are often be just as mean as they.

:( Sad.


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livingwithautism
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17 Jul 2020, 1:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
livingwithautism wrote:
Fnord wrote:
livingwithautism wrote:
They are more ignorant than mean.  They don’t have first hand experience of being autistic so they don’t understand.
Neither do any of us have first-hand experience of being "normal" -- does that make us any better?
It’s not about better or worse, it’s just different. We are all just people and nobody fully understands everyone else.
Then I have to wonder why not all of us believe this, and see fit only to bash "neurotypicals" for being mean when some of us are often be just as mean as they.

:( Sad.


Yeah I'm sick of NT bashing and the "us vs. them" mentality.