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vermontsavant
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11 May 2020, 9:22 pm

CarlM wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don’t believe most Aspies would be thought of as being “psychopaths.”

Not today but remember that original paper

Die autistischen psychopaten im kindasalter meaning autistic psychopathy in childhood by Hans Asperger


Asperger's "psychopaten" did not have the English meaning of psychopath. The English meaning always struck me as wrong. Sociopath is much clearer.

So when Asperger used the word psychopathen,if he did not mean psychopathy,then was meant.The English translation of his original paper is autistic psychopathy in childhood.

Psychopath and sociopath is splitting semantic hairs.The psychology profession has never definitively differentiated the difference between the two.


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vermontsavant
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11 May 2020, 9:32 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Asperger did not mean “psychopathy” under the present-day definition.

It’s more like he meant a generalized psychological or developmental “pathology,” in my view.

But he described a developmental pathology marked by social isolation and poor social skills.

And used the term autism, because at the time (since debunked) he wrongfully thought he was dealing with early childhood schizophrenia.This is why he said psychopathen im kindasalter,because he wrongfully believed he was dealing with childhood sociopaths.

Much of early autism theory has been debunked but it goes to these early doctors state of mind.


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kraftiekortie
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11 May 2020, 9:43 pm

Most sociopaths/psychopaths are not “socially isolated.”

In fact, they can be rather charming and even charismatic. Look at Charles Manson.



naturalplastic
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11 May 2020, 10:04 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Asperger did not mean “psychopathy” under the present-day definition.

It’s more like he meant a generalized psychological or developmental “pathology,” in my view.

But he described a developmental pathology marked by social isolation and poor social skills.

And used the term autism, because at the time (since debunked) he wrongfully thought he was dealing with early childhood schizophrenia.This is why he said psychopathen im kindasalter,because he wrongfully believed he was dealing with childhood sociopaths.

Much of early autism theory has been debunked but it goes to these early doctors state of mind.

Cant figure out what your point is.

Sociopaths are the polar opposite of socially impaired/isolated. They tend to be charming and seductive con artists.

The polar opposite of aspies.


Aspies have sympathy, but no empathy (sympathize with your suffering but cant understand you because they lack TOM). Sociopaths have empathy, but no sympathy (they instantly figure out how you tic, and how your mind works, but they view you as just an object for them to exploit). Again, the polar opposite of aspies.



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12 May 2020, 12:39 am

Neuroscientist James Fallon Was studying Brain Scans for Genetic Factors associated With Psychopathy
And Found He Had the Genetic Markers; Running in a Family of Ancestors Afoul of the Law; Attention
And Love Made all the Difference in His World; Genetics don't make a Human Being alone; A Garden
of Love Will Make the Difference Between a Serial Killer and a Successful Neuroscientist; in Other
Words, the Proposition of this OP Is a Fail Already, in Regard to the Research already done in this
Area of Study.

Remember 'Class', Labels are just that; Humans are Not Labels; they are Organisms with
Potential of Unpacking DNA to accommodate Fear and Hate; And Hope And Love;
The Two Environments will Make A Difference between a Trump and an Obama; at least;
No Matter Brown Or Faux Color of Orange of Skin.

Other than that the Misinformation about Anti-Social Personality Disorder according
to the DSM 5 Is running Rather Vague in this Thread; For remember Again; it is a label
of Behavioral Symptoms Per List; that make Functioning in Society, Socially a Disability.

While Issues with Empathy are often associated with both ASPD and ASD;
Issues with Empathy are not Required for A Diagnosis, Exclusively for either Disorder;
Once Again, It's a List of Behaviors And A Grab Bag for A Required Number of Deficits for a Diagnosis.

"The DSM-5 diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder:

A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others, since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

A. Failure to conform to social norms concerning lawful behaviors, such as performing acts that are grounds for arrest.

B. Deceitfulness, repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for pleasure or personal profit.

C. Impulsivity or failure to plan.

D. Irritability and aggressiveness, often with physical fights or assaults.

E. Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others.

F. Consistent irresponsibility, failure to sustain consistent work behavior, or honor monetary obligations.

G. Lack of remorse, being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another person.

Note: Trump Is A Poster Boy For This Disorder; But Of Course Being President Trumps The Disorder in Real Life.


The individual is at least age 18 years.

Evidence of conduct disorder typically with onset before age 15 years.

The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during schizophrenia or bipolar disorder."

Continued in Next Comment


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Last edited by aghogday on 12 May 2020, 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

aghogday
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12 May 2020, 12:40 am

Second Part of Comment:

"DSM-5 Autism Diagnostic Criteria
A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive, see text):

Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions.

Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication.

Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers.

Specify current severity: Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted repetitive patterns of behavior. (See table below.)

B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):

Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).

Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns or verbal nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to take same route or eat food every day).

Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g, strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interest).

Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual interests in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g., apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or touching of objects, visual fascination with lights or movement).

Specify current severity: Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior.

C. Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities or may be masked by learned strategies in later life).

D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.

E. These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay. Intellectual disability and autism spectrum disorder frequently co-occur; to make comorbid diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability, social communication should be below that expected for general developmental level.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK546673/

https://www.autismspeaks.org/autism-dia ... eria-dsm-5

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 180947814/


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ASPartOfMe
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12 May 2020, 2:28 am

vermontsavant wrote:
CarlM wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don’t believe most Aspies would be thought of as being “psychopaths.”

Not today but remember that original paper

Die autistischen psychopaten im kindasalter meaning autistic psychopathy in childhood by Hans Asperger


Asperger's "psychopaten" did not have the English meaning of psychopath. The English meaning always struck me as wrong. Sociopath is much clearer.

So when Asperger used the word psychopathen,if he did not mean psychopathy,then was meant.The English translation of his original paper is autistic psychopathy in childhood.

Psychopath and sociopath is splitting semantic hairs.The psychology profession has never definitively differentiated the difference between the two.


The Problem with Asperger's by Edith Sheffer author of "Asperger's Children: The Origins of Autism in Nazi Vienna".
Quote:
The term psychopathy carried criminal connotations in Nazi child psychiatry, and indeed Asperger attributed “sadistic” traits to autistic children.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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12 May 2020, 2:39 am

magz wrote:
Hey, I wetted bed and loved fire in childhood!
Should I get locked for life before I commit any murder?


Image



kraftiekortie
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12 May 2020, 3:57 am

Magz didn’t torture or kill small animals. She didn’t fulfill the “homicidal trilogy.”



kraftiekortie
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12 May 2020, 4:05 am

Do you believe Asperger believed in “Nazi psychology”?



magz
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12 May 2020, 4:42 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Magz didn’t torture or kill small animals. She didn’t fulfill the “homicidal trilogy.”

That's true, I was feeling bad even about accidentally stepping on a snail and breaking its shell.
Also, even as a child, I took quite reasonable precautions when playing with fire. Never caused any accident. The most serious disaster was a lot of smoke entering my school by a not-tight-enough window. We chose a spot layed with concrete, well out of sight, nothing flammable in a few meters around, but we didn't think od that window above. The janitor was furious but otherwise nothing bad happened.

But really, my point is: don't punish people for things they never did. It's evil.


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kraftiekortie
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12 May 2020, 4:50 am

It’s “thoughtcrime,” right out of 1984.

To even conceive of locking up somebody for having the “homicidal trilogy” is absurd to an absurd degree.



The_Face_of_Boo
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12 May 2020, 4:52 am

Off Topic
Snails can possibly repair their own shells, if the crack isn't too serious.



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12 May 2020, 4:59 am

OP continues his proud history of unironically being in favour of the sort of things people write dystopian fiction about.


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domineekee
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12 May 2020, 5:02 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
OP continues his proud history of unironically being in favour of the sort of things people write dystopian fiction about.

I've been hoping that you would arrive and help clear this up like you did last time.