Does the heterogeneity of autism undermine the neurodiversit

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The"neurodiversity movement" isn't one thing.

I support "neurodiversity" inasmuch as I obviously think we should acknowledge that "neurodiversity" (or behavioral idiosyncracy) isn't necessarily bad and veer away from constantly pathologizing everything we can. (The way the mental health system in the USA works, the more you diagnose, the more money you make, sooo...)

But the article is correct that "Autism" is too broad a label to be classified as "just like an ethnic minority group" (did Nick Walker actually try to compare medical treatment for Autism to the Final Solution in Nazi Germany? Reductio ad Hitlerum is a huge fallacy in this discussion.)

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again: even if we are only talking about "high functioning" Autistics who do not have pervasive developmental problems, the kind of social ostracization and isolation we face as Autistics cannot be rectified by "cultural change" especially when Autism is a label that is rarely perceived day to day anyways. If I come off as rude, offensive or plain uninteresting to others, they'll exclude me. "Discrimination" and "prejudice" have nothing to do with it, and the ND movement can do nil for those problems. (Social skill training for them via therapy is also pretty abysmal ime.)

When autistic people are against Neurodiversity such as myself it’s the paradigm they are against.

Many find their pushing of their anti cure stance along with their whitewashing of the more serious symptoms as “left handedness” as disingenuous at best offensive at worst.

Of course if it was some type of zen movement like alternative medicine ( that Edna kind of implies that is happening in her country) that minded it’s own business in not controlling how people think, didn’t try to bully others into accepting their point of view (see nick walker types) people like me wouldn’t care.

We still support accommodations whether societal or workplace and if people are happy the way they are good luck to them.

^ Zen movement? Alternative medicine??
You make my night hilarious.

And does anyone had any evidence that I'm anti-cure? Anti-medical stance? No???

I'm anti-panic and anti-misinformed, not anti-cure and not even anti-'wanna-conform-or-be-normal'.

I've met anti-NDs and those who covet NTs that I can respect, but you're not one of them definitely.

By the way, any attempt of persuading you would be a useless.
I mean why should I?? You already had made up your mind. I can respect that.

But please, educate yourself.

That is one hole in the neurodiverse theory,without disability,what is societies motive to exclude and discriminate.

Society is angry with us because we communicate poorly.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_in_autism

The paradigm so we’re clear

Writes provocatively and has a very rigid definition.

Writes as if this one speaks for other anti-NDs.

Never answered my questions if involved with parents or relatives, caretakers professionals involved with LFAs.
Nor shown any knowledge other than some selective view base on viewing things in extremes.

And is equally dismissive to other autistics. By telling himself that he's smarter than that and is able to predict the future.


I understand the need for concrete definitions, but learning to have more flexible definitions than that would be the point of wanting to be more than just an aspie with parlor mental tricks?

Edna3362 wrote:

Wikipedia wrote:
Neurodiversity paradigm

The neurodiversity paradigm is a view of autism as a different way of being rather than as a disease or disorder that must be cured.

Relative. Unknown factors.
Discrepancies between this statement from real 'practice'.

Wikipedia wrote:
Autistic people are considered to have neurocognitive differences[34] which give them distinct strengths and weaknesses, and are capable of succeeding when appropriately accommodated and supported.

Which is true, not exclusive.

Wikipedia wrote:
Efforts to eliminate autism should not be compared, for example, to curing cancer but instead to the antiquated notion of curing left-handedness.

Both comparisons are absurd.

Wikipedia wrote:
There is no leader of the neurodiversity movement and little academic research has been conducted on it as a social phenomenon.[34]

Not enough data. Justified.

Wikipedia wrote:
As such, proponents of the neurodiversity paradigm have heterogenous beliefs,[34]

In which is the most true statement.

Wikipedia wrote:
but are consistent in the view that autism cannot be separated from an autistic person

Relative. Unexplored and unknown factors.

Wikipedia wrote:
.[40] Advocacy efforts may include opposition to therapies that aim to make children "indistinguishable from their peers,"[40]

Which proven to be a real mental health detriment.

Wikipedia wrote:
accommodations in schools and work environments,[44] and lobbying for the inclusion of autistic people when making decisions that affect them.[45]

Justified, not exclusive to autism.

Wikipedia wrote:
Neurodiversity advocates are opposed to medical research for a cure,

Debatable/relative.

Wikipedia wrote:
believing that it will lead to eugenics,

Just as ridiculous as debating about homeless LFAs and justifying about being against it.

Wikipedia wrote:
and instead support research that helps autistic people thrive as they are.[40]

Relative. Unpredictable factors.

Wikipedia wrote:
For example, NeuroTribes author Steve Silberman noted a lack of research in regards to seizure-controlling drugs and autistic brains;

Not enough data. Pointing out justified.

Wikipedia wrote:
that sensory differences in autistic people were unheard of until Temple Grandin spoke about her experiences;

True.

Wikipedia wrote:
and that only a small percentage of research funding goes towards the needs of autistic adults.[42][44][46]

Relative. Limited.



Sigh.
Verdict? There's nothing for me to agree or disagree.
It only made me look forward to any sort of progress and those changes regarding to the label that is autism.

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Thanks for pointing out and breaking down the absurdities, i take it you don`t believe in the whole paradigm from your comments, in which case good for you, the only problem no one cares what you and i believe in, its the direction of the herd that`s important.

If you say you support the neurodiversity movement then its presumed you support the paradigm and are anti cure and in many ways dismissive of the severe life destroying symptoms of autism as they can`t be separated.

You`ve stood up to be counted as a supporter. Its common in revolutions that people support things thinking they are coming along for the ride and have the power to change the course of things to their point of view later on, then they start shooting people and then they say "well i never wanted this!", but they were part of the engine by supporting it.

Anyway another absurdity and scientific illiteracy is the idea of developing cures and bio treatment of people being eugenics. Eugenics is about selective breading or reproduction with a particular goal. Curing / treating is the opposite of eugenics as it gives those who have a genetic problem a chance to live a full life rather than dumping in a corner and given a label.

You know what is a form of "soft eugenics" though, labelling people. All this obsession with adult diagnosis to uncover more milder autistic people in the population.

Of course one could interpret this as just trying to help adults who have had life long problems, if only they could really offer them something.

The result of this is many of those identified become scared or guilty of having children, this includes siblings of autistic people.

Women / potential partners also now know who to avoid if they want healthy children by our label.

All this may in the long run have an effect of reducing the autistic genes in the population. What do neurodiversity want to do - create an identity movement.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/eugenics

Quote:

the study of or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, especially by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics).

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Nothing wrong with being identified in adulthood firemonkey I was identified as an adult.

Just making a point ND are so dead set on being seen as anti eugenics by being anti cure they not only don’t know what eugenics is, they actually promote policies that NTs who wanted a form of soft eugenics would favor.

This is mainly governments though , ND just adds to it

i.e identity a genetic trait in a population deemed negative by encouraging those who potentially have such a traits even mild be officially diagnosed and labeled.

ND add to it by trying to create an identity out of it so we are marked out in society more openly leading to us being avoided by potential partners so we are less likely to have children.

Of course I accept this policy could have other less negative more benevolent interpretations.

But even if benevolent one still can’t avoid the Inadvertent potential outcome over the long term.

When you add in comorbids ,what may seem mild when focussing just on the ASD becomes less mild when those comorbids are included.

For me those comorbids are highly probably dyspraxia(mentioned in assessment report, but not dxed as the assessment was purely to say yay or nay about being on the spectrum), schizoaffective disorder and very possibly learning difficulty .

I don't in any way see myself as homo sapiens 2.0 or 3.0 . I'm someone who doesn't compare well to age and intelligence matched people from the general population . I live a rather basic lifestyle.

How I am on these ,and other, forums doesn't reflect how I am in situations where more practical intelligence is required .

On father's day my stepdaughter gave me a hidden disabilities lanyard (amongst other gifts) . Some here might be offended if given such a lanyard. For me,however, it showed she cared and was aware of the difficulties I have .

Edna:

You seem to take things very personally getting angry at opinions that differ from yours. I don’t believe I have been anything but courteous of your opinion but you seem to want to insult, get angry and accuse me of all kinds of things.

1. I never said I was psychic just said it’s unlikely that someone who is severely disabled would be classed as “normal“. Maybe in a dystopian future it would and johns experience would be the normal. Like palmyra was a nice place to visit in 2010, in 2014 ISIS were cutting off heads there so you never know. Let’s hope not.

2.To answer your missed questions do I have any involvement in LFA?

My cousin had low functioning autism, he’s dead now for a few years but i remember many things.

Im a member of a local autism support group so I know of a few parents of LFA children, one an adult now self harms and never leaves his room, another is ok in his self but has ID.

I don’t know any professionals in that field but an old British saying I don’t need a weatherman to tell me when it’s p***ing down. I don’t need an expert to tell me LFA is very bad Indeed.

But according to ND it’s just like being left handed.

I don’t represent LFA, who cares if I did, it doesn’t invalidate what I’ve said.

It would only reinforce the concept of neurodiversity.
This is a bell curve within a bell curve. Why do you ask.