How Genetic Changes Explain Why the West is So Utterly Polar

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techstepgenr8tion
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10 Jul 2020, 12:31 pm

This is pretty mean to everyone on their political opinion but the moral of the story I suppose - none of this is supposed to have anything to do with truth, just group identity, in-group/out-group, r/K selection, social structure for raising and making babies, and that if you care about truth and most likely you're going to have one or no kids (and I have to lump myself in this criticism on both accounts) - no worries, your 'truth' will be voted right out of history by those who are on the far right or left who unlike you are making babies.


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10 Jul 2020, 12:34 pm

Another Master Race / Eugenics video?


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techstepgenr8tion
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10 Jul 2020, 12:35 pm

Fnord wrote:
Another Master Race / Eugenics video?

No, more like Idiocracy.

I'd strongly recommend taking what this guy is saying and *not* doing what it seems to suggest but instead taking the problem seriously.


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10 Jul 2020, 12:41 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Another Master Race / Eugenics video?
No, more like Idiocracy...
Same thing, really.

I'll finish the video after I leave the office.


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techstepgenr8tion
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10 Jul 2020, 12:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
Same thing, really.

There has to be a good claim of 'group y is the best group' IMHO to say there's a master race component.

He says the implications of the paper is that people to the far-right are making slightly more babies than those to the far left and both are making far more babies than those in the center or center-left and that it's people's fair-mindedness that's getting their priorities hijacked away from biological prime directives.

One of the places I'd disagree with him - I don't think it's a good thing that people on the ends of the spectrum are making the most babies, it just goes to show that nature's a stochastic process that could care less about civilization, John Stuart Mill, or anything that I've grown to care about.

My best understanding of people to date - we're biological monsters and people evade truth not because they care to evade truth specifically but because it's just something another person is saying, it doesn't help them get more resources and 'things' out of their group, and very few people actually care much about it. I've spent a long time trying to figure out why people don't research their opinions or even seem to be proud that they don't - IMHO this fits the situation like a glove.


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techstepgenr8tion
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10 Jul 2020, 1:06 pm

The other really interesting thing - when I go out my front door and have to deal with people the primary concern isn't whether what I do or say makes sense with respect to what I'm doing (most of us already have that wrapped up) but rather passing 1,001 tribal shibboleths that you can only know if you were born into that tribe, didn't have a single original thought (or knew to banish it immediately if you did), and only became you through compound imitation.

Think about it - the cry of just about anyone on the autistic spectrum is 'I'm making sense - why are these people treating me like a monster?'. It's because we're logical rather than Darwinian, and my guess would be the number of people with autism will keep growing as people are raised on modern conditions where logic and reason are at least on paper 'supposed to' overpower instinct (some people take end up taking that call - largely to their detriment). It makes me even wonder if autism will jump right off the genetic base, or at least the social component, and they'll have to assume it's environment.


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10 Jul 2020, 4:34 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Same thing, really.
There has to be a good claim of 'group y is the best group' IMHO to say there's a master race component. ...
Okay, but I asked the original question because I haven't yet watched the entire video, not to question its premise.  The comment was just a toss-away.


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techstepgenr8tion
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10 Jul 2020, 10:57 pm

Fnord wrote:
Okay, but I asked the original question because I haven't yet watched the entire video, not to question its premise.  The comment was just a toss-away.

If it cuts to close to that I'm okay with it coming down, but we may want to figure out what parameters such things can get discussed with in to the degree that they're significant features of the political landscape.


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10 Jul 2020, 11:28 pm

I don't really buy the concept of genetic inheritability of being Left or Right. I suspect studies that would try to prove it would have a lot of trouble having to separate social inheritability or nurture and environment out from genetic heritability. I am not saying that there are not parts of the brain and types of genetical elements of a person that might influence political stance, but I think the research this video is based on is being over empathised.

Reading comments of the video seems to have attracted a lot of people that want to explain away things like racial tension as natural, and say that Left wing movements are unnatural mutations and dangerous. There are a lot of people saying "WLM", which I can only assume means White Lives Matter, this is kind of worrisome.

At one point he has even started talking about things like depression being contagious. I am becoming increasingly cautious about this guy's opinions.


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11 Jul 2020, 4:40 am

^ agreed

He starts off by saying that 40-60% of a person’s political views can be explained by their parents (heritable is different from genetic). One would naturally expect that parental values as well as being raised in a similar environment (if your father is a trade union leader then you’re probably going to be working class, and if you’re working class you’re probably going to join a trade union) would shape your political views, but these things combined with genetic factors only explain 40-60% of a person’s political views. It would take very compelling evidence - adoptee studies - for me to accept that political views are more than trivially genetic, but he does not provide this evidence before taking it as read that society is becoming “genetically right wing”.

I switched off at that point, because the guy clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about. It’s likely that he starts getting into cultural factors that shape political views later in the video, but it seems very premature for him to assume that those fertility curve he posts are fixed facts of life and not just a description of what happened in the relevant period. What impact will the internet have on both the heritability of political views and patterns of reproduction? “Zero” seems unlikely.

Idiocracy itself has been debunked to death. This is a slightly different concept because it’s actually backed up by data (IRL there is no correlation between intelligence and fertility) but it massively overstated the likely extent to which politics are genetic and immutable.



techstepgenr8tion
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11 Jul 2020, 6:23 am

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... al/280677/


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11 Jul 2020, 6:53 am

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Dutton_(anthropologist)

Quote:
In an announcement made by the university in June 2017, Dutton was found to have conducted scientific misconduct due to plagiarism
.

Quote:
Dutton has attended the London Conference on Intelligence, which is associated with eugenics,


Quote:
Dutton has appeared as a guest on the white supremacist podcast Red Ice. Dutton wrote a paper in defense of Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique series, which claims that Jewish people are biologically ethnocentric to the detriment of other groups. The work was published in Evolutionary Psychological Science in 2018.[15] The article was defended by the journal's editor, Todd K. Shackelford, as a good fit because it was "risky", while board member Steven Pinker criticized the journal's decisions to publish the paper. Pinker said it contributed nothing new, and was unsupported by evolutionary psychology while also repeating old antisemitic canards.


Quote:
On 19 October 2019 Dutton addressed the annual conference of the Traditional Britain Group, where he argued that British inventions and genius placed them at the apex of civilisation.[18][non-primary source needed] In November 2019, Dutton spoke at the far-right Scandza Forum, in Oslo.[19][20]


Quote:
Books Edit
Dutton has published 14 books.[22]

2008, Meeting Jesus at University: Rites of Passage and Student Evangelicals (Burlington, Vermont: Ashgate Publishers / Routledge)
2009, The Finnuit: Finnish Culture and the Religion of Uniqueness (Budapest: Akadémiai Kiadó)
2012, Culture Shock and Multiculturalism (Newcastle: Cambridge Scholars Publishing)
2014, Religion and Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis (London: Ulster Institute for Social Research)
2015, with Richard Lynn: Race and Sport: Evolution and Racial Differences in Sporting Ability (London: Ulster Institute for Social Research)
2015, The Ruler of Cheshire: Sir Piers Dutton, Tudor Gangland and the Violent Politics of the Palatine (Northwich: Leonie Press)
2016, with Bruce Charlton: The Genius Famine: Why We Need Geniuses, Why They’re Dying Out and Why we Must Rescue Them (Buckingham: University of Buckingham Press)
2018, How to Judge People By What They Look Like (Oulu: Thomas Edward Press)
2018, J. Philippe Rushton: A Life History Perspective (Oulu: Thomas Edward Press)[23]
2018, with Michael Woodley: At Our Wits’ End: Why We’re Becoming Less Intelligent and What it Means for the Future (Exeter: Imprint Academic)
2019, The Silent Rape Epidemic (Oulu: Thomas Edward Press). Discusses the Oulu child sexual exploitation scandal, and uses it to illustrate Dutton's hypothesis that the Finns are societally and genetically unusual.[24]
2019, Race Differences in Ethnocentrism (Budapest: Arktos)
2019, Churchill’s Headmaster: The 'Sadist' Who Nearly Saved the British Empire (Melbourne: Manticore Press)
2020, Why Islam Makes You Stupid ... But Also Means You'll Conquer The World (Washington Summit Publishers


This guy would have carved out a great career for himself 80 years ago in Germany.



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11 Jul 2020, 7:26 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/can-your-genes-predict-whether-youll-be-a-conservative-or-a-liberal/280677/


Asking for evidence of genetic heritability, of which that article seems to be a little bit sketch on actually proving, rather than saying things like personality traits evident when young can predict likely political orientation in the future, even evident with identical twins apart keep a common politics. The research would have to point that these traits are genetically coming from parents

About the only thing that seems to hold anything more concrete is the study on brains, that showed people with larger right amygdala were more likely to be conservative, while those with larger anterior cingulate were more likely to be "liberal". This comes down to what these parts of the brain can do.

Like the right Amygdala: "The right hemisphere is associated with negative emotion.[citation needed] It plays a role in the expression of fear and in the processing of fear-inducing stimuli. Fear conditioning, which occurs when a neutral stimulus acquires aversive properties, occurs within the right hemisphere. When an individual is presented with a conditioned, aversive stimulus, it is processed within the right amygdala, producing an unpleasant or fearful response. This emotional response conditions the individual to avoid fear-inducing stimuli and more importantly, to assess threats in the environment."

The effects a larger Anterior cingulate I think are a bit more complex, but seems to cover things like error detection, social evaluation, reward based learning, "consciousness", and emotional reactions to pain.

These sorts of things point out that the common brains of people who are Right and Left can totally differ from each other, where conservatives have brains that process things on fear much more strongly, while "liberals" I might go so far as to say their brains process empathy, figuring out how the help others. A lot of this explains why each wing can be so against each other, where conservatives can't understand why the Left are not more afraid of things, that they think they are stupid, while the Left does not understand why conservatives have such a poor ability to empathise with people different from them and what positive policies can do.

But all of this is moot, unless some studies can show that these different brain traits are genetically inheritable from parents. Like those with larger right amygdala will have children that also have larger right amydala, and the same with the Left with larger Anterior cingulate.


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techstepgenr8tion
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11 Jul 2020, 7:57 am

The main reason I'm as interested in this topic as I am:

Expecting people to just 'roll with the punches' when an economic system is going through constant upheaval or what's really been given the reducto ad absurdum 'learn to code' - is just asking for revolution.

The way you keep people in these tribes from killing each other is you make damn sure you have a playable game. What this really helps evidence is that, if as much of this is genetically hard-coded as it seems, you don't brow-beat anyone or try to re-educate anyone into anything other than taking up a pitchfork against you.

This is also underscores just how dangerous the political belief in 'tabula rasa' is. It's one thing to have load-bearing fictions that are worth keeping, like 'all men and women are created equal under the law' or 'slavery is wrong full-stop', or 'all people have right to autonomy over their own bodies', etc. but there are things that pass as load-bearing fictions, both tabula rasa and meritocracy come to mind, and they're really just a great way for groups in power to wash their hands of large swaths of the public and do so with plausible deniability as well as the ability to claim no accountability for the results.


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techstepgenr8tion
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11 Jul 2020, 8:03 am

domineekee wrote:
This guy would have carved out a great career for himself 80 years ago in Germany.

He might be a fair example of what Steven Pinker was talking about and got in trouble for a couple Decembers ago where the controversy over Sam Harris's podcast with Charles Murray and the battle with Vox and Ezra Klein was in the air - ie. that if the center can't discuss certain kinds of material that it's given away as a freebie to those on the far right and / or far left. He underscores the urgency of how dangerously out of touch we are with reality on this topic which is part of why I do check out his content - because on that point I'd fully agree that it's not inconsequential.


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11 Jul 2020, 8:53 am

Generally Speaking, According to Classical Evolution, At Least;
People are Alike All Over in their Differences Innately; And Environment
Plays a Huge Role In Our Development Ever Changing in One Lifetime in accord
with Neuroplasticity and Epigenetics in Day to Day Life; Meeting Challenges of Every Day
Struggles and the Adaptations that Naturally Happen in either Success or Failure in Both Surviving and Thriving.

'This' is way, Way, WAYS, too complicated to Material Reduce it to whether or not the Current Assessed
Environmentally 'Affected And Effected' 'Extreme Left or Right' is Gonna Procreate And Make Future Society
Reduced to 'Left and Right' Genetic Impact in Reproduction. It's Worth Noting that the 'Conservative Religious
Extreme Right' is Growing much More 'Gray' In Demographics, Even in the Muslim World of Temples too; Credit the
Online Environment Now of Opening Minds AND BODIES to New Experiences this way of changing Personalities more.

Yes, Generally Speaking, even in the rest of the Animal Kingdom, Studies have assessed More Conservative
Cautious Sitters Opposed to Nomad Rovers at about a Ratio of 20 Percent to 80 Percent; As Yes, Boats (Us) need
'Sails And Anchors' (Rovers And Sitters) to meet the Challenges of 'Sailing' Exploration And Rough Seas in Accord
of 'Safe Harbors' with 'Anchor Animals' too, Who Did Not Venture Out So Far Away From 'the Desert Cave';
Hmm, Some folks Remain In Desert Lands without any Natural Source of Fresh Water, so Stubborn; hehe,
Or they Travel to Snowy Mountains Where Freezing to Death is A Very Real Potential and Never Turn Back to
More 'Greenlands' to 'FeeL And Eat'; They Start Fires And Make Tools to Stay; How Ingenious they are too, to Survive
And STAY PUT..;)

Humans And Their 'Cultural Clothes' Make the 'Naked Animal With Genetic Instincts Expressed Fully', An
Animal That May come to be almost unrecognizable, until you get them into a Procreative Act or Other
Challenge Like a Fight or Flight Situation; Passions Do Overcome 'Reason' in These Surviving Ways of Life'.

I Have Always Been considered One of the Most Peaceful Folks In the Room, my Entire Life; The Most Rational;
the Valuable Commodity, Both in School and Work; Dependable to Solve Problems Reasonably And Fast; but
that was in Work and School; It didn't take into account Instinct in the Wild, like What Happens In Bars
When You Are the Only Sober One And Everyone Else is Drunk, Competing for Mates that You already
Have and are just There for the Autotelic Flow of Dance to Enhance Overall Creativity in Overall Bliss.

Anyway, Not Looking for Female Attention; butt getting it profusely, just dancing fearlessly without a
Care in the World but Bliss; a Drunk Dude Got Pissed off, Shot Me a Bird And Head Butted Me; But i guess
he didn't realize that i am God Yes, Literally As Strong as An Orangutan; Yes, Science Shows this is Possible
for Humans to be this strong through Appropriate Environmental Challenge that i've taken in this way all my life
and achieved since 12 Years-Old as my Peers suggested i was too weak to survive; so the Weakest Boy Became the Strongest Leg Pressing Dude in the Military Gym, through 60 Years-Old as Proven on Youtube still too at 1340 Pounds
Of 100 Seconds of Leg Pressing at a Safe 90 Degree Angle then; that no other Military Dude; No Matter
what age, who tried it, could budge it an inch at all; as Usually Dudes in the Military don't do Anabolic
Steroids like they do in the 'Civilian World of Gym Rats'; Anyway, in Less than one second i had Him
in a Choke-Hold Submissive On His knees; He didn't know what Hit Him; And i had never
come close to doing that in my Life; but what i found out that day is that i Am potentially
Deadly; A Valuable Lesson indeed, Mostly for me; as i took great Measure not to do it again.

Bottom Lines; Humans Will believe they are Rational all they want to; but Perhaps
They haven't been in the Environment Yet to Prove they are not Rational at all.

Of course, it most often Happens with the Oldest Brain; the Reptile Brain,
In Terms of Procreation and Fight or Flight Circumstances As Both Pain
And Pleasure Is Evolutionary Intertwined this way For Base Survival of all Mammal Species.

Other than that Personalities Change over the course of a Lifetime Heavily
Influenced by the Environment as Introverts become Extroverts and Sitters
become Rovers for Survival too; or just for fun of change too as i've done Introvert
And Extrovert; And Extrovert is surely More of a fearless exciting way of Life to really
Breathe And Color
Life Free NoW in
'THE REAL WORLD';
Yet, Introvert has its
advantages as well in places like Online;
or Painting a Sistine Chapel and the Such
Where one Generates their own Heaven
Within through a Life of Solitary Flowing Autotelic Art Where
Paintings And Poetry And Even Dancing and the Such Become Within
Friends to See in the Outer World Come Results too of Soul Arts For Others to See.

Humans Are Paintings;
Never Ever Science Projects Alone;
The Human Cultural Global Painting
Is So Complex Now; it would only Take
A God; Yes, The Rest of Nature and Tools
That Become Us to Figure it all Out; Perhaps
We aRe Doomed but in the Short Term By God This Human Condition
Is a Fascinating Overall Masterpiece Painting that Never comes complete and boring;

At Least for
those who
See a Larger
Painting than Sticks
And Stones And Carrots
of Only A Very Narrow View of Existence.


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