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Brictoria
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13 Jul 2020, 6:45 am

Quote:
The Chinese used to have a brutal remedy for those who transgressed the teachings of Chairman Mao.

The rebels were dragged to so-called 'struggle sessions' where they were subjected to vicious abuse from an audience of true believers.

Offenders who failed to give grovelling apologies for their misguided views were, at the very least, shunned by society. In other words, 'cancelled'.

The online mob so keen to erase Harry Potter author J. K. Rowling for taking a stand on transgender politics now uses a similarly ugly tactic to silence dissenters. Never mind the subtleties of Rowling's case, denouncing her is all that counts.

The trans debate is only one front in a cultural war between strident activists – many of them Left-wing – and those who dare to disagree with them. Other recent battlegrounds have included race, Brexit and immigration.

Toby Young, founder of the Free Speech Union, who receives daily requests from people who have been – or fear they will be – 'cancelled', compares the prevailing atmosphere to some of history's darkest episodes.

'What's disturbing about cancel culture is that we've seen it so many times before – in 17th Century Salem, in Paris after the French Revolution, in America during the McCarthy era, in China in the 1960s,' he said.

'It's as if a group of people are re-enacting some of the worst moments in human history, but because they're not actually killing anyone they think it's okay.'

But what does it feel like to find yourself at the bottom of an internet 'pile-on'? The Mail on Sunday spoke to some of the victims of 'cancel culture' to find out.

Followed by interviews with 5 "cancelled" people.

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8513897/CANCELLED-happened-cartoonist-Communist-Morning-Star-gay-pride-parade-organiser.html


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magz
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13 Jul 2020, 7:19 am

I like your interest in "the other side".
I wouldn't say it's "like in the darkest times", maybe because I've heard enough first-person accounts from WWII Warsaw to have some vivid ideas for what "the darkest times" look like. It's certainly not now.

However, a tendency to silence opponents and to demand walking on eggshells not to accidently trigger some "dog whistle" is unhealthy and generates more conflict, not less.
After my mental breakdown, my husband used to walk on eggshells around me and it was horrible - we just couldn't have a normal, healthy relationship, only horrible pressure all the time. I'm so glad we're past it now. Healthy human interactions include some moderate amount of respectful conflict.


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Bradleigh
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13 Jul 2020, 7:53 am

So, what is the downside here?

Kind of seems like in bad taste to draw a comparison with Chinese dictatorial torture with people taking stands against bigots.


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Brictoria
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13 Jul 2020, 8:49 am

Bradleigh wrote:
So, what is the downside here?

Kind of seems like in bad taste to draw a comparison with Chinese dictatorial torture with people taking stands against bigots.


That's exactly why these people were interviewed: to make a stand against the bigots who "cancelled" them.


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Bradleigh
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13 Jul 2020, 9:26 am

Brictoria wrote:
That's exactly why these people were interviewed: to make a stand against the bigots who "cancelled" them.


1) An artist who made a transphobic newspaper cartoon that portrays transgender people as hungry predators.

2) A radio host who denies the existence of white privilege, and used "White Lives Matter" in response to BLM, a racist dog whistle. Looks like a brief hiatus and voluntary decision not to do call ins.

3) He kind of seems to be acting a bit entitled to a sponsorship, when his politics don't line up with the sponsor.

4) An academic getting awfully close to eugenics in wanting to control how many children people on welfare can have.

5) This guy does not even canceled, just questioned over public statements on Twitter that included All Lives Matter, 'Gender is Real' (I wonder if it is meant to be 'sex is real'), and some sort of comments against 'mass immigration. It is not saying exactly what, but there are chanced that these things could underlie racist and transphobic beliefs, that could make it difficult to do his job properly as an educator.

These people show some signs of discrimination, I can see reasons why people would not want to support these people, and why employers might want to question standing behind them. Not a lot of information, but none of these seem to be cases where they are misunderstood for their opinions, rather than logical results from them.

Can you tell me which ones you think are an injustice?


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13 Jul 2020, 9:39 am

The only significant difference between "Canceling" and "Ghosting" is a matter of scale and/or cause.

The act of "Canceling" describes a form of boycott in which an individual who has acted or spoken in a questionable or controversial manner is boycotted.

"Ghosting" describes the practice of ceasing all communication and contact with a partner, friend, or similar individual without any apparent warning or justification and subsequently ignoring any attempts to reach out or communicate made by said partner, friend, or individual.

In the former case, the person being "Canceled" is usually a high-profile celebrity, while in the latter case the person being "Ghosted" usually has no fame or celebrity status.

"Canceling" is just "Ghosting" on a grander scale.  Otherwise, there is no essential difference between "Canceling" someone like Mel Gibson (a famous celebrity) and "Ghosting" someone like Wade Smith (a random non-celebrity) for their hostile comments on race.


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Brictoria
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13 Jul 2020, 10:51 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
That's exactly why these people were interviewed: to make a stand against the bigots who "cancelled" them.


1) An artist who made a transphobic newspaper cartoon that portrays transgender people as hungry predators.


So, a feminist being concerned about "self identifying" trans women being allowed into "female-only spaces such as domestic violence refuges and toilets." is bigoted. I assume, then, you would see no issue, were one of the perpetrators of domestic violence to "self identify" as a trans woman in order to acces the refuge where their victim was...Or a predatory male to "self identify" as a trans woman to access female toilets for ulterior motives?

I did find it interesting that the note with the cartoon where she explained:
Quote:
that when she was a girl, she was convinced that she was really a boy, but realises now it was just a phase.

and
Quote:
She wondered whether in the present climate she would have been encouraged to change sex, with disastrous consequences.


I seen no sign of being a "bigot" as you accused her of being, simply someone with a different set of beliefs to you.

I do wonder, having read this, whether some of the more "aggressive" members of the trans movement were like she had been, but were pressured\encouraged to change sex, and are now lashing out in order to help themselves "confirm"\"validate" that they made the correct choice (buyers remorse)?

Bradleigh wrote:
2) A radio host who denies the existence of white privilege, and used "White Lives Matter" in response to BLM, a racist dog whistle. Looks like a brief hiatus and voluntary decision not to do call ins.

Quote:
A few weeks later, he was cleared by the Isle of Man's Communications Commission, which said that while it considered his comments insensitive, they were not made to 'stir up racial hatred' and did not breach its broadcasting code.
Quote:
He said: 'I believe that the vast majority of people are kind, considerate and open-minded, and I fully intend to ensure that their voices are heard.

'But I will not expose myself, Manx Radio or anyone else to the comments and abuse of the last three weeks, and have asked the station to remove the live phone-in element of my show'.


Not seeing any sign of him being a bigot, nor did the communications commission where he was.

Bradleigh wrote:
3) He kind of seems to be acting a bit entitled to a sponsorship, when his politics don't line up with the sponsor.


So, a conservative member of the LGB community who is trying to arrange an event for the community is a "bit entitled", whilst the "Left-wing activists led by Labour's diversity adviser announced a boycott when anonymous Twitter posts revealed he was a Tory supporter who had called for a 'clean-break Brexit'" are beyond reproach?

It is interesting to see further proof that the LGB community aren't as "inviting" or "open minded" as they try to portray.

Bradleigh wrote:
4) An academic getting awfully close to eugenics in wanting to control how many children people on welfare can have.


An academic who is talking about research which had indicated that children from families who are dependant on welfare are more likely to be resistant to employment, and recommends removing payments which encourage them to have more children.

Not sure how "removing encouragements" equates to controlling the number of children they can have, unless the "encouragements" was what was causing them to have more children than they would have had without the encouragements?

Bradleigh wrote:
5) This guy does not even canceled, just questioned over public statements on Twitter that included All Lives Matter, 'Gender is Real' (I wonder if it is meant to be 'sex is real'), and some sort of comments against 'mass immigration. It is not saying exactly what, but there are chanced that these things could underlie racist and transphobic beliefs, that could make it difficult to do his job properly as an educator.


Quote:
His ordeal ended when the Free Speech Union found a lawyer for Dr McCulloch who pointed out that universities are required to protect the right to freedom of speech of their staff under the Human Rights Act 1998.

'When the lawyer wrote to the university to ask which rule I'd actually broken, they dropped the case the next day,' said the academic. 'It's very sinister if people are now telling me what I am allowed to 'like'.


It was only when a lawyer pointed out that they were lawfully required to protect his freedom to speak that he was able to keep his job.

I would also note that a university is supposed to be a place where children hear differing views, to allow them to learn HOW to think, not a sheltered playground where children are indoctorinated into WHAT to think. By presenting these (as you put it) "racist and transphobic beliefs", it would help the children there learn different opinions that others in the real world may have, and allow them to question both those views, and the "correct" ones, in order to come to their own understanding on the subject.

Bradleigh wrote:
These people show some signs of discrimination, I can see reasons why people would not want to support these people, and why employers might want to question standing behind them. Not a lot of information, but none of these seem to be cases where they are misunderstood for their opinions, rather than logical results from them.

Can you tell me which ones you think are an injustice?


It is certainly clear, that by trying to "cancel" a person who had views which differed from their own fixed beliefs, these "cancel" mob were indeed bigots, being that "bigot" is defined as:
Quote:
a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.


I do find it disappointing how inflexible you also are with your determination as to what are the "correct" opinions for a person to have and passing judgement on people where you do not agree with them as well. Please remember that other people are allowed to have different opinions to yourself, and should not be attacked for those opinions.


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magz
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13 Jul 2020, 11:23 am

Bradleigh wrote:
So, what is the downside here?

Kind of seems like in bad taste to draw a comparison with Chinese dictatorial torture with people taking stands against bigots.

Calling everyone of views opposed to yours "a bigot" is part of the unhealthiness.

There are bigots and non-bigots on both sides. Typically, strongly identifying with one of the sides makes one see only the opposite site bigotry and own side reasonable arguments and ignore own side bigotry and other side reasonable arguments. I really see this phenomenon on both sides of any ideological conflict close to me.


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Brictoria
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13 Jul 2020, 11:45 am

magz wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
So, what is the downside here?

Kind of seems like in bad taste to draw a comparison with Chinese dictatorial torture with people taking stands against bigots.

Calling everyone of views opposed to yours "a bigot" is part of the unhealthiness.

There are bigots and non-bigots on both sides. Typically, strongly identifying with one of the sides makes one see only the opposite site bigotry and own side reasonable arguments and ignore own side bigotry and other side reasonable arguments. I really see this phenomenon on both sides of any ideological conflict close to me.


Sadly, it seems education standards have slipped at some point. I was always taught to address another's opinions\beliefs, and not to attack a person\group which holds different beliefs\opinions to mine.

If the other side can put forward a persuasive reason why a belief\opinion I have is not correct, I am happy to change my belief\opinion to match it, whereas the current fashion seems to be a bigoted "attack the messenger"\"cancel the heretic" approach, which only indicates that those who need to rely on this form of behaviour do not have a message\opinion\belief of any value, as otherwise they would be content to present it, trusting that it was convincing\logical enough to change people's opinions\beliefs to agree with it, and understanding that if it wasn't accepted then maybe there was a flaw in it which needed to be addressed.


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13 Jul 2020, 12:16 pm



If 'You' Can't Stand The Heat, Get
Out of the CuLTuRAL Kitchen...

'Good Luck' on That...

Ha! By Very Nature Culture is 'Cancel Culture' as Long as Outside
Groups Are Invading Inside Groups With Different Points of Views;
Traditions; Totems as Symbols; the Lists Go on and on as Religion is Human
Nature in Binds and Bonds Over Common Meaning And Purpose That Bring Survive and Thrive to Group Fruition.

What to Do? What to Do NoW? When The Group Think That We Are Viewing And Even Original Creativity Does
Not Agree With Our Points of View; Tradition; Totems As Symbols; God, Yes, The Religion (Nature) oF All of this is
A Longer and Longer List of Varying Heterogenous Cultures in Viewing Reality As Is; As Even NeuroScience Suggests
We Hallucinate Our Realities at Core Based on the Experience of Reality, We Basically Hallucinated Before for What
Works and Does Not Work With Fear Based Experiences Taking First Place in Short Term and Long Term Memories
to Influence How We Experience Now; And Additionally, Neuroscience, And Psychology, And the Overall Study Now
of the Human Condition Shows That Emotions Precede Almost All of what We Determine, Secondary, As Reasons
For What We Do in Life as Yes, Memories Are Emotions and Emotions Are Memories; There is no Escape from
"HeART LiFE", Unless We aRe a Human Being Who is Not Functioning as Naturally Evolved; Like Spending
Too Many Hours in the Day With Abstract Constructs In Mechanical Cognition Ways, Developed in just
The Last Several Centuries, so Far In Deed, Away From A Connection of Living Breathing Nature both
Outside And Within Us that is Truly No Separation at all until Words And Other Abstract (Tools)
Constructs Divide Us From What We Are Even Evolved to Be; Artful Colorful Creatures
Finding Meaning And Purpose in Binds And Bonds of Nature That Create
Subsistence, Existence; Yes, Surviving And Thriving in Joy Over FLoWeRS
And Accepting Bleeding With THoRNS of Roses NoW as Well to Rise Higher
Ever More iN Appreciation Of Gratitude for the Gift of Life WHere For Giving
Thorns Becomes Thanks Giving For Roses; All the Beauty DarK Thru LiGHT Now.

It's Worth Noting That A Big Picture View of Existential Intelligences Will Rarely
Fit in A Twitter Comment; As Folks No Longer Have the Ability to See A larger
Picture View Smaller Like God is A Dead Leaf That Brings Colors to Leaves
As Fall Makes WiNTeR Dead Leaves SPRinG into SuMMeR FLoWeR Beauty of More
Colors to Appreciate;

Here'S A Deal; THere Are THoRNS And FLoWeRS iN All Stuff RiSinG As Roses in Life.

We All Are Still CoLoReD With A Fight or Flight Procreating Reptile Brain WHere
THere is Very Little Separation in Pleasure And Pain As From WHere Comes Birth Comes Pain;
Secondarily, We Have a Limbic System More Complex Mammalian Brain That Is Feeling Based in
Synergy of Senses in Mind and Body Balance From Head to Toe, Directing All Our Actions through
Emotions First; And Then Comes Our Neo-Cortical NeWesT Brain Where Consciousness That We 'Normally'
'See' is Just 5 Percent of Our Entire 'Mind' Of Experiencing Reality As Most of what We Do, We 'Do Not KNoW' Now.
The Neo Cortex Makes the Illusion of the Past Our Present Reality For Reasons to Do, or Not to Do, What Comes Before;
And then the Ability to Guesstimate Futures Based on All the Reasons At Hand We Thirdly Create in Neo-Cortical Way.
Let's Face it, All the Symbols in the World; All the Words in the World; All the Statues And Religions of Individual
Views of Seeing Reality Differently, Don't make Much Difference Until They Come into Our Focus of DarK iNto
Light As A Ripple/Wave in the Pond/Ocean of Our Entire Minds; Either Negative or Positive, Now For Real.

In Short, i don't worry about 'Termites',
Until They Infest the place i Dwell in Now.

If Other Folks Found More Meaning and Purpose
in Greater FLoWeRS of Life; Neither Would they; but it's
True Dark Makes An Excellent Muse for 'Poetry' as Long
As 'We' Understand That We aRE ALL Just Really Writing 'A Poem';
A Dance And Song; Where All We Feel and Sense Now is Really What Counts;

Make it Shepherd Pie or A CR8P Sandwich.
i Find Making Shepherd Pie With Folks Who
See the way i do Much more Fun; But i'm not TotAlly St8pid;
i understand the Value of Thorns That Make FLoWeRS Rise As Rose too...

Bottom Lines, Life is
A Work of Art The in or out of
Balance We Create Solo And Together too.

It's Just ReaLiTY As iS, NoW
ActuAlly EternAlly Now
Heaven too At Best 'We' 'See'...

Existential Intelligence
Means Accepting Dark Thru
Light as Even Science Shows
Dark Makes Light; But It's Also True
Humans Are Really Only Evolved to Connect
to about 150 Familiar 'Close to Naked Acquaintances;
With Only The Capacity of Socially Comfortably Intimately
Interacting With About 5 Close Friends, Who Have the Ability
to Listen to one's Own Truth in Light And At Least Tolerate it For Overall Support.

It's True, We Shouldn't Put all Our Eggs In one Basket; Diversity Colors Survival; But on the Other Hands Putting Eggs in
Too Many Baskets Means One Typically Will Lose Their Eggs; And They Will Never See a Vital Birth of Creativity come Next;
Or At Least THaT Creativity in Focus and Productivity Will Be Lessened iN A Greater Extent for What Human Potential
Will Better Be in Balance of Both Diversity And Religion of Common Binds and Bonds In Tradition That Glue
Both Us And Groups into Meaning And Purpose That Make Us Feel Both Free And Arm-In-Arm of
Comfy
Cozy
Warm
Fuzzy
Safety to
Breathe Easier
Through The Day Light
And Nights of Darkness too.

One Can't See 'the Other Side of Cancel Culture'
Until We Seek And Find WHere We Even Are Now.
This Is WHere A Bigger Picture View of Many Sciences
And Arts Come into Play in Experience that Makes Broader
Vision other Wise Termed As Wisdom of Existence; YeS, Existential Intelligences.

Before Books, Before Words, Before So Many Tools That Have Now Transformed As Part of Us:

Folks Found all of this In Breathing Nature and Each Other Close to Naked Foraging For
Survival And Thriving Where the Non-Verbal Language From Head to Toe Focusing
on a Dance of Facial Movements of Expressing Emotions MaKing All of Life Religion
Naturally For Bonding And Binding Together in Free Dance And Song too; Yes, This
Is What Folks Did Less than a Hundred Years ago WHere Living Rooms Were Truly
Breathing Rooms of Humans Connecting in Only Flesh And Blood Where for
All Practical Intents And Purposes All they Were was Their Reality The
ToGeTHeR; And God Yes It took Real 'Work' To Entertain Each other
then; People Actually Had to take the Effort to Create Stories
More Than just Quoting What they Saw Someone
Else Say for Likes on a Facebook Feed. Out of
The Home in the Larger Home of Nature Soul
iMaGiNaTioN Ruled With Creativity of Building Castles
Out of Sand For Total Satisfaction Now With Enough Physical
Exercise to make Sleeping Comfort Long Enough to Actually Re-Vitalize our Breath.

Overall, We aRe ALL Living in A 'Farthest Side Now'; too Far Away to ReMeMBeR, Overall, Who We Even Are Now;

As Indeed, Our Tools Have Become PoiSoN As Us; i'm Just a Story Teller From Then And Now; Still ReMeMBeRinG
How my Great Aunt at 94 described Her ChildHood When i was 47, Then; Indeed some of us are more givers than takers.

In Other News, Welcome to
A REAL 'Twilight Zone' AS Humans
Continue to Serve And Consume Each other and the Rest of Nature Out of Balance Now.

We Canceled The 'Culture' of WildLife Nature Homes, Encroaching And Eradicating Them; Now We Pay
The Reaper of Small Bats Carrying Viruses too small to see; Covering 'Our Shameful Faces' With Masks,
Not Even Understanding the Human Cultural ViRuS of Tools We aRe Now, Overall; No More Regret than
Trump Feels, At Most, Forcing Children Into Schools, if He could Put At Risk, So Much More Death; Yet, He
Doesn't Understand Soul; Overall, Failure Understanding Depth of HeART; Folks Still Do overall, Soulfully Love
THeir Children in 'SPiRiT' at least.

We Vigorously Spend Our Days Canceling Each Other Now;
Is It any Wonder That A Human ViRuS Does THiS NoW iN A Word:

No.

This Is 'Karma' (Call it the 'Evil Eye'; Whatever) It is what it is; Action And Consequence; The Illness of
'Human Beasts', So Foolish To Fall Into Their Tools, Ceasing To Breathe Colors of Nature Dancing Singing Free.

If More Folks Developed the Ability to Master Their Own Soul; They Might Just For S's And Giggles Report
on the DarK; But Relatively SPeaKinG Now, They Will Have The Free Will to See And Feel Light out of Dark.

Humans Have Grown 'too Weak' to Appreciate the Value of THoRNS; And too Vapid to See Colors of FLoWeRS in Thanks;

And surely 'too Slow' to make New Colors Bloom, Overall, at least in Ways of Twitter Talk And Copy And Paste Souls.

There is Less Hours in a Day of a Life to Worry About Old Statues And Words of Offense
When one is Creating New Symbols And Totems out of Dark to Feel And See Light And
Colors of FLoWeRS NeW;

Never the Less, Creating
MaKinG Heaven
or Hell
And the
Tween of
Grey Shades
iN Purgatory too;
Heaven Takes More Work for Worth WiTHiN
But the Reward iS iNHeRenTLY Easy to See and Feel Now.

In Short, Folks Who Do Not Write, Direct, Produce, And Act
THeir Own Realities iN Play Will Only Be Spectators in PriSons of Audiences Until, They 'Just Do It'.

i come from a Deeper Side Now, So Far Away From A 'Twitter World' Now; Just Because i Can And Will Be Freer to See...

A Real Gift Is THeRE aRe Still Avenues to Be Free; Totally Separated, i Am, from All the CuLTuRaL CR8P That Stinks,
Stanks,
Stunks
Like
'Orange
PRiSoN',
to me, at least...

Meh; Excellent Dark
Muse for Longest Form EPiC Free Verse Poetry too..
Folks Who are 'Too Big To See' Aren't Bothered Much by 'Pesky Termites'..;)

And By God The Global Online Ocean is Big Enough Now to Find A Handful of FRiEnDS For Balance;

Wives that Never Age; Truly Magical 'Stuff' Like that too; Ya Just Have to See Beyond 'Reason' to Find Truth Breathing;

Haha; That's a Real Talent that about 99 Percent of the Population STiLL Never Finds Stuck in the Past And Future
Away from What Never Ages Eternally Now; Hint: Love, So Much More than Just one Word; Unlimited Colors oF LiGHT:
'New Coke' (God).


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13 Jul 2020, 7:15 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
1) An artist who made a transphobic newspaper cartoon that portrays transgender people as hungry predators.


So, a feminist being concerned about "self identifying" trans women being allowed into "female-only spaces such as domestic violence refuges and toilets." is bigoted. I assume, then, you would see no issue, were one of the perpetrators of domestic violence to "self identify" as a trans woman in order to acces the refuge where their victim was...Or a predatory male to "self identify" as a trans woman to access female toilets for ulterior motives?

I did find it interesting that the note with the cartoon where she explained:
Quote:
that when she was a girl, she was convinced that she was really a boy, but realises now it was just a phase.

and
Quote:
She wondered whether in the present climate she would have been encouraged to change sex, with disastrous consequences.


I seen no sign of being a "bigot" as you accused her of being, simply someone with a different set of beliefs to you.

I do wonder, having read this, whether some of the more "aggressive" members of the trans movement were like she had been, but were pressured\encouraged to change sex, and are now lashing out in order to help themselves "confirm"\"validate" that they made the correct choice (buyers remorse)?


You want to get into this, okay, lets get into this.

Even if she thinks that she would have been encouraged to change sexes when she was younger, this does not mean it is a fact, nor does it mean she would have passed the incredibly intrusive testing that is done by the doctors to figure out if it was just a phase. If she is really curious about this part she could question people who have gone through the process or doctors that preside over it, instead she has just made the decision that the whole thing is bad and no person would be able to know if they were transgender at a young age, which is incredibly condescending.

Fine, she is a feminist, so am I. The difference here is that her comic shows that she does not think certain women are worth protecting, notable from the fact that transgender people are actually far more likely to be victims, certain studies found that 47% of transgender people are sexually assaulted at some point in their lifetime.
https://www.hrc.org/resources/sexual-as ... -community

If she is still worried about people acting in bad faith, that is fine, but she has to find a way to talk about it that does not portray it as a problem of people using being transgender as an excuse as hungry predators. Why? Because transgender people have to put up with a whole lot of s**t, and being seen with suspicion and hatred as monsters in disguise is absolutely disgusting. It ignores the experiences of those people, and throws them to the wolves. Some women uncomfortable with what they think might be a man peeing in the stall next to them? Do they understand what it must be like for all the transgender women forced into the actual men's room?

No, she doesn't. Her comic would rather portray the whole thing as hungry crocodiles slithering into safe spaces to prey on helpless newts. It does not even address the fact of what would be stopping it from happening in the first place. That transgender women are actually quite often turned away from domestic violence centers for not passing well enough, and are generally going to be looked down on for being too masculine for female spaces, and too feminine for masculine spaces. It just paints the whole thing as innocent people being preyed on. It is disgusting. A phrase that transgender people can find being thrown at them for simply existing.

If the comic is the start of a conversation, then what is being discussed? Some way that actual transgender people can be more safely accepted into gendered spaces so they feel safe too, along with means that people who are unsure can also safely experiment? Or that this whole letting transgender people in is just going to open the door to evil monsters, so screw them because I have issues with the opposite sex?

There are plenty of way she could discuss it in a more nuanced manner that treats actual transgender people as their identified gender, but instead she painted the whole thing with broad strokes that can only come across as transphobic and bigoted. Because through her comments you can read that she thinks transgender people are just confused. From these simple facts you can read that she is trans exclusionary, and thus a radical for how she excludes trans women from being protected as women despite being a feminist, a Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist.

She is intolerant of people with a different belief to hers, that trans people are valid, and thus a bigot.


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13 Jul 2020, 7:29 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
2) A radio host who denies the existence of white privilege, and used "White Lives Matter" in response to BLM, a racist dog whistle. Looks like a brief hiatus and voluntary decision not to do call ins.

Quote:
A few weeks later, he was cleared by the Isle of Man's Communications Commission, which said that while it considered his comments insensitive, they were not made to 'stir up racial hatred' and did not breach its broadcasting code.
Quote:
He said: 'I believe that the vast majority of people are kind, considerate and open-minded, and I fully intend to ensure that their voices are heard.

'But I will not expose myself, Manx Radio or anyone else to the comments and abuse of the last three weeks, and have asked the station to remove the live phone-in element of my show'.


Not seeing any sign of him being a bigot, nor did the communications commission where he was.


If you response to hearing about BLM is to say 'White Lives Matter' and that there is no such thing as white privilege, you have something wrong with you. For starters it has been explained ad nauseam that white privilege is not getting something useful, it is not being on the receiving end of disadvantages and harassment that people of other races or skin tones have to deal with, if you cannot understand this simple fact, then you probably should not be allowed to spread your message around as a radio host.

Sure, his comments were only found to be insensitive, good for him that it was not found to be a cancelable offense. But I suspect this is from the fact it would be incredibly difficult to prove that him repeating racist dog whistles and talking points were from him genuinely spreading them rather than being insensitive ignorant. Him stopping the call ins is probably just as much to stop him from being confronted by the speech of another that would reveal that he might really hold these racist beliefs.


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cyberdad
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13 Jul 2020, 7:37 pm

Those opposed to cancel culture seem to be focusing on where oppressed minorities may over react to comments, slurs or attacks in order to shut down those "other" voices.

I think this is more complicated than one blanket rule pertaining to cancel culture. In particular the voices of feminists who are now more clearly identified as enemies of the trans community.



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13 Jul 2020, 7:40 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
1) An artist who made a transphobic newspaper cartoon that portrays transgender people as hungry predators.


So, a feminist being concerned about "self identifying" trans women being allowed into "female-only spaces such as domestic violence refuges and toilets." is bigoted. I assume, then, you would see no issue, were one of the perpetrators of domestic violence to "self identify" as a trans woman in order to acces the refuge where their victim was...Or a predatory male to "self identify" as a trans woman to access female toilets for ulterior motives?

I did find it interesting that the note with the cartoon where she explained:
Quote:
that when she was a girl, she was convinced that she was really a boy, but realises now it was just a phase.

and
Quote:
She wondered whether in the present climate she would have been encouraged to change sex, with disastrous consequences.


I seen no sign of being a "bigot" as you accused her of being, simply someone with a different set of beliefs to you.

I do wonder, having read this, whether some of the more "aggressive" members of the trans movement were like she had been, but were pressured\encouraged to change sex, and are now lashing out in order to help themselves "confirm"\"validate" that they made the correct choice (buyers remorse)?




She is intolerant of people with a different belief to hers, that trans people are valid, and thus a bigot.


How is she intolerant? She expressed an opinion, one that quite a few folks in the trans community agree with.
The real intolerance is coming from people like yourself who want to shout everyone down who doesn't agree with your rigid ideolgy.

That has to quality as one of the most ironic comments I've read on this site in awhile. It's a definite example of the pot calling the kettle black.


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13 Jul 2020, 7:44 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
3) He kind of seems to be acting a bit entitled to a sponsorship, when his politics don't line up with the sponsor.


So, a conservative member of the LGB community who is trying to arrange an event for the community is a "bit entitled", whilst the "Left-wing activists led by Labour's diversity adviser announced a boycott when anonymous Twitter posts revealed he was a Tory supporter who had called for a 'clean-break Brexit'" are beyond reproach?

It is interesting to see further proof that the LGB community aren't as "inviting" or "open minded" as they try to portray.


You might not understand it, but people who are on the side of furthering support for LGBT people can also care about other social issues, such as Brexit being an incredibly bad thing that they also don't want supported. Tough luck if you are the type to be conservative and think that you are doing right by helping LGBT causes, but you are not entitled to sponsorship from more progressive sources that find what you champion for is wrong and not worthy of support.

And I am going to say this, I highly advise you not to use "LGB" instead of "LGBT", leaving the T out makes it really close to anti-trans groups made up of lesbians, gays and bisexuals, like the LGB Alliance. LGB does not mean LGBT, if you continue to keep using it I can only assume that you are equating LGBT community to a hate group, which is what something like the LGB Alliance is. I won't police your speech, but if you keep using it I will have no choice but to assume that every time you say it is an attack on LGBT people, especially trans folk. All you need to do is add the extra letter, like no effort to not come across as hateful.


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13 Jul 2020, 7:47 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
How is she intolerant? She expressed an opinion, one that quite a few folks in the trans community agree with.
.


Let's face the reality. she doesn't want to share a public bathroom with a trans. That's intolerance.