Hi Some gender specific help

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This is exactly how I feel too. I'm straight but don't feel especially feminine or masculine minded.

I identified more with men when I was younger, but that was because it seemed to be the only available alternative to being 'girly', which I couldn't relate to at all. Then when I was older I used to wish I had no gender at all; and I'm reasonably sure now.

Now, I feel more like I'm a brain than a body. Slightly more a female brain than a male brain but the body feels totally superfluous. Neither my brain nor my body feel 'feminine' at all.

I have a feeling that all of the above makes no sense whatsoever, though.

Yeah, but we don't talk much.



What sort of help?

You sound pretty Aspie to me. Is that what you were looking for? Anything else?

If so... just keep posting. Start threads as you feel like it. Get comfortable.

You've got to REALLY go over the line, to go too far around here.

Yes, I can relate to what you say too.

I saw the bit at the end of Tony Attwood's book (but I didn't know he had written one just on girls). When I read it it convinced me I very likely did have AS as one of the reasons for my doubts was because I knew a number of male Aspies & they were nothing like me. However, his description of female Aspies fitted me pretty well.

I can be social (in small doses) and "fake it" pretty well on superficial aquaintance. I can laugh & smile & gossip (though when I do the latter I suspect I don't always follow the rules and have often wound up upsetting someone!)

It's only when I get into one of my rigid thinking modes: "But that's NOT FAIR! That really winds me up! It SHOULDN'T be like that! It should be like this and this and this....." or if I retreat into myself and don't speak to anyone all morning that they realise maybe I am not quite like them after all.

Men seem much more tolerant of the rants than women (probably because they have been known to do the same themselves) but many women seem to find them pretty intimidating for some reason, and avoid me when I have been like that.

That is one of the main things I don't understand (and fact find infuriating) about women - that everything has to be all nicey-nice and they can't possibly raise their voice at anyone or tell someone what they really think of them. Why? Why is it so important to be "feminine"? Of course not all women are like this, but many, many NT women seem to be. (Of course they will still gossip behind someone's back though).

I am well known for saying "If you've got something to say, say it to me, not about me!" but my boss (male) is the only person who will actually do that.

Basically a big 'me, too,' to what everyone (includign hellohello) has been posting (with the exception that my brother is NT, and is infinitely frustrated by my refusal to hob-nob at social gatherings).

I just can't hob nob even with the best of intentions. At social gatherings, once I'm settled with somebody nice to talk to, I don't like to shift around.

Quite frankly, much of what people have to say is so idiotic, I'd prefer them to say it to someone else rather than me even if it's about me.

But they can't be nicey nicey behind your back.

[quote="HelloHello] "... typical Aspergers Syndrome seems engendered.
....Does it always feel like play acting when you are social? I always feel so insincere when I'm around people whom I don't care about or share the same interests as me. I'd rather be by myself and I always feel drained around people I’m not comfortable with. .....I am hesitating to go to a professional for a proper diagnosis because I don’t want to be assaulted with gender specifics. .. I am suspicious of using those criterias as they seem male-centric...." [/quote]

<<<<REPLY This is where I have got to aswell after a few weeks of reading and posting on wrongplanet and I'm feeling a bit freaked out about it.
While posting on a thread on General discussion, " differences between male and female AS", I realised that my ASD may have expressed itself in the past ,and to some extent still, by an obsession with learning how to do the social and seduction and empathising and charming "act", along with a compulsive need to have my hair just right and to get my clothes just right . Nobody ever said that this might be the sign of something wrong!! Behaving like this is just NORMAL for a woman!!

I did the hair and clothing thing more or less "happily" , willingly, enthusiastically,if always with an effort, until my breakdown at 26-29 . Since then I have done it drivenly,( that is I don't wear skirts or heels or jewellery or makeup any more , and seem to have ended up in black and grey, aswell as keeping my hair pretty short ,BUT it still ALL has to be JUST right ! !!)
Socialising skills ,which I had finally picked up at 18 years old , just in time for wasting my time at university getting pissed, stoned and laid, and which were so intoxicatingly effective especially in combination with alcohol, now seem , as you say , so revoltingly false, and leave me drained, and yet I still find myself sucked into doing it , now and then .
Even if these behaviours are actually OCD , and therefore a co-morbidity rather than ASD itself they seem curiously accepted by society. As if intelligent and creative women wasting their time and energy on what colour shirt will go with what style of jumper, and removing yet another few millimetres of hair from their fringe,or spending creative energy figuring out how to camouflage whatever she perceives as "too something",every time she leaves the house, is completely normal and healthy.

I'm wondering whether actually a lot of women aspies are actually amongst the most sexually active and well-dressed women , the life and soul of the party, but also the ones with no longterm relationships because actually it's all for show. (At least until they have a breakdown anyway).
The most empty inside, because getting this "act" together has taken up all their energy , whereas the ones with the hopeless clothing and the blank faces ( like I was from onset of puberty , when the new demands suddenly made themselves felt, until 18 when had learned enough to suddenly become a swan!!) have time to do other things! (As I have done, a little, since crashing my "pretty" self in manic-depression ! ! )

I can remember sitting around in a flat I shared , having got every cushion just so, and ,I now realise, holding myself "just so" aswell , waiting for the visitor which would bring the display to life. An elaborate prosthetic structure simulating the feminine-woman.And not just any old one either, but one who was articulate , artistic , well read , etc etc ! !

After I discovered feminism , I realised that I was frightened of women, "real" women as I saw it. I felt like something insignificant and fraudulent next to them. As if I was just a child playing at being a woman. BUT I had followed the "rules" ; taken them seriously ; taken them literally. What did I become? A kind of very good drag-queen.

I think many womens ASD is passing unoticed because the behaviour is, at least for a few years until becomes a bit "shrill",the same as that portrayed in ads everywhere...! !. I remember poring , spellbound, serious, concentrated , over the pages of Vogue and Harpers and Cosmo. I was "studying" VERY VERY hard!! I used to cut the pictures out , the ones that seemed like the summum of "it", and stick them on my wall. They were my "models", my textbooks.

ASD for some women means living in a prison of the most exaggerated aspects of the traditional idea of woman!!

This is exactly how I feel as well. I certainly don't consider myself "masculine" or non-feminine, but other people often seem to, because I'm I don't wear a lot of makeup (besides mascara, and I didn't wear that until I was 16), or dress in a sexy way, nor am I flirtatious. I find flirting to be extremely offputting in either sex (unless it's someone I'm in a committed relationship with and I know it's serious). I tend to relate better to guys and make friends with them more easily, but often don't stay friends because if they flirt or act "interested" I shut them down very quickly because it makes me uncomfortable. The girls I've been friends with often consider me to be unfeminine and try to get me to act or dress more in a "more feminine" way, which I really consider to be a way society has conditioned them to act, I don't think it's more natural.

I do have a really hard time making friends, especially with girls (I really don't try any more with guys). This is a big disappointment, because although I hate being around people I have to "act" with, I get lonely and want to have an actual friend where (I imagine) that isn't necessary. I have known girls in the past who were more genuine and I didn't have to put on the act as much with them, but they seem to be very few and far between, and they often stopped being genuine and started the "feminine" acting as they grew up and therefore we drifted apart. If I am acting all the time and trying to keep up with topics that I am not interested in and/or know nothing about (especially pop culture type things), it's exhausting and seems quite pointless. Frankly I had an easier time when I was a young kid... people could just ask each other if they wanted to be friends or not, and it didn't seem like there was so much emphasis on evaluating how you acted, or maybe I just wasn't aware of it.

Hmm... I'm a bit of a strange mix I think. I'm not at all "girly", don't even have any female friends. (And only a couple male ones.) I do wear girl clothes though. I prefer fitted things that don't move around much, because I like to sprawl comfortably rather than sit all straight and "proper". I wear tank tops year round because I can't stand collars touching my neck. I hate skirts and dresses. I like my hair long, but don't fix it. I just leave it alone or tie it back out of my way. I don't bother with makeup daily, but wear it at least weekly.

I remember years back at somebody's house, some girls were looking through a store magazine that had men's underwear. They were all squeeling and stuff, I completely didn't get it. Yeah the guys looked good, but why does it require all the sound effects?

Nice to know I'm not the only one who's not all giggle girl cheerleader wannabe, I knew there had to be at least a few out there.

(No offense to cheerleaders.)

yer aspie

HelloHello, me thinks u do have AS, AS does present different in girls, it is less likely to be diagnosed apparently.

Hi,

I do not think you have to be scared to ask for professional help. Any psychiatrist will not force you into something, they merely lead you to provide the answers yourself. In essence, you already know.

And there is nothing wrong with being androgynous and asexual - there are more people around!!

I identify as male more, and have a bit of a hard time figuring things out for myself.

b.t.w. I have not officially been diagnosed with AS, but the online tests seem to indicate a high possibility...