Autism/Schizo

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I don't either. Also I know this because I am one of those people.
I fail to see how it's more nuanced than that it either is or isn't. You either ignore the truth and reality or see it for what it is, or atleast what you perceive it to be. Who decides what is or isn't objective reality. You only know your perspective. after all Reality is what you make it the truth is a lie. (Sorry I literally couldn't write this without that this little birdy in my head was like but wait truth is a lie. The facts are most people choose to ignore the truths of life because to not do so would mean madness. It's a Paradox. The objective truth is effectively a lie because most people don't accept those things. Because can you really accept those things. The thing is to them what they are denying so rigidly could be true to them. Who decides what is a truth and what is a lie. see in life the truth isn't important survival is. Because ultimately the truth can hurt. Not just emotionally but psychologically and psychiatrically.

TLDR> SSD and ASD are part of the same disorder. (most likely)

I feel like nobody understood this. If you didn't think of the spectrum being an X/Y chart then you got it wrong.

Saying "same spectrum" was probably bad wording but it was the best way I could think to describe it with just imagining this up while taking into consideration everything I know about both disorders. Now that I have done more research I can describe it better. They have the same underlying causes in relation to genetics and neurological development. It's all a matter of how your genes are expressed during brain development that determines which parts of each of the disorders you end up having. They both affect many similar parts of the brain but if those parts of the brain or under developed or over developed determines which spectrum symptom you have. It gets more intricate than that though, also the structure of these neurons in these parts of the brain can determine what symptoms you have.




https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5906088/


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27311754/


This next article seems to indicate that SSD and ASD are highly related and that how the genes are expressed in different sections of the brain determines whether it's a schizophrenic symptom or autistic symptom.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18578904/

And this final one also confirms my original hypothesis that it's all the same sort of problem.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30122298/

It's like... how can everyone know that SSD and ASD have like 20 of the same genetic markers and not put the pieces of the puzzle together. SSD and ASD research teams need to be working together on this problem.

hash tag vindicated

<3

Last edited by fie on 02 Sep 2020, 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

The nuance is in the comparison of autism to schizophrenia. An autistic can see reality and know that it's true but choose to ignore it. A schizophrenic isn't always able to tell if the reality they are seeing is actually the reality that is real.

You're probably totally right that it is not a part of autism specifically. After thinking about it more, I think my dad trained me to be paranoid from a very young age. He would play tricks on me all the time and lie to me just to f**k with my head. I learned early on to be paranoid and had to figure out ways to find "truth". I do think my autism is beneficial in these regards.

Nobody decides what is objective reality. But through science and peer-review we can determine what is MOST LIKELY real.

I was thinking the other day about Qualia and how you can't describe the color red to someone who has never seen it. A lot of people that learn that find it very disheartening and think that how does anyone know what is real? The answer to that is *conversation*.

Although you can't describe red to someone who hasn't seen it. You can converse with someone who is looking at the same thing to tell if you are seeing the same thing. Describing the details of the color, how the color interacts with other colors, weather the color stands out more or less with other colors, etc. SCIENCE!

Never give up on the quest for truth there are ways to get closer to it.

Another mindf**k like qualia is simulation theory. After you go down the nihilistic road of simulation theory you can either give up on life or just accept that you can never really know for 100% certain and just enjoy the experiences you have the best you can. With simulation theory in mind that means that we can never 100% know the truth about anything ever.

Striving to get closer to that 100% is a journey I enjoy although I will never get there.

And imagine the red corner having a strong repulsive force. The nature of the disorders involve the same areas of the brain but they whether they are over developed or under developed determines whether you have specific symptoms of each disorder. It is more common for all areas to be over-developed or under-developed but in some people there are a combination of both over and under developed parts.

NOTE:
this isn't proof, just an example of how to imagine them as the same disorder represented as 2 1 dimensional spectrums overlaid with each other in 2 dimensions.

Fie, your icon (Kriton) scares the heck out of me. I have to keep on telling myself,"It's only Kriton, it's only Kriton, it's only Kriton......"

Fie!! You are a genius!! I had an idea about disorders displayed like a graph but never, ever, thought of looking at it in this way. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!!
This is probably why a LOT of women on the spectrum have PPD instead of just plain old PMS. PPD is REALLY BAD PMS. Thank you again!! You took me to a whole other dimension on "understanding" what makes some people tick or what makes them ticked-off. This is probably why a man can't look a woman in the eye but will harmlessly stalk her.
Even why a person can't match cloths properly. MAN!! ! This is something!! I used to think,"How could this particulat person not be able to do 'this' yet can do 'that'." This explains it!! Co-morbidity isn't on a parallel. It's the way that graph describes it. The actual person is the three dimensional of that two-dimensional graph. Mozart would be an example. Maybe?? I have no training in the field but this makes sense! I've been theorizing for a long time but when someone can finally "do the math" , questions get answered and the satisfaction of understanding follows.

No problem I'm glad somebody got something out of it.


I'm sure there are even more dimensions that can be added involved with describing the disorder but when you get past 3 dimensions (cube) it gets really hard to imagine. I think some people can think in 4 spacial dimensions to a certain degree but at some point you just have to stop thinking of people as coordinates and as people.

Whenever I heard spectrum disorder I always thought of those gradient bars in the image. White being neurotypical.

They are two different disorders----but there is some overlap between them. An autistic person can have symptoms of schizophrenia, and vice versa.

Just like something like the common cold and seasonal allergies have considerable overlap---but they are certainly two different conditions.

There are many manifestations and presentations of schizophrenia---just like there are many manifestations and presentations of autism.

I was thinking of those same things. The thing is you can't tell if you are seeing the same color you can be sure you are seeing the same amount fo colors the but THeir blue could be red. They just think that red is a cool color. You can't truely describe color to a blind man. I'm not good with names, but you could either be talkigna bout two things the theory were reality is just a play setup by your mind and how do you know if it's actually real. Or the theory about how it's more likely that this universe is a simulator than not. See those are the kinds of things that drive people cazy and it's better to just ignore the whole thing than to accept the truth that you can never truely know if anything is real or not.

a better way to do this would it being directional i.e red on positive x blue on postive y green on negative x yellow negative y. etc. etc. [/color]

You seem to be coming out very strong against this idea.

(Not all this is specifically directed at you kraftiekortie but just the general response I have received)

I'm predicting now that there's going to be an umbrella term to classify ASD and SSD into the same group and ASD/SSD will be a subset diagnosis.

It's looking like we're pretty close to understanding the underlying mechanism from what I can tell reading research papers.

And if you combine that with the f-MRI studies and the AI neural networks that neuroscientists are working on, building brain-maps, it seems like a clear understanding is just on the horizon.

It seems like there's been very strong push back against my ideas and it seems like all of the naysayers haven't even looked at the research I've cited.

I'm not going to argue with anyone that either doesn't falsify my evidence or post their own evidence other than personal experience. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

I am autistic, I have at least 3 autistic friends, (probably more undiagnosed) and my 3 very best friends are all SSD (1 paranoid schizo, 1 schizoaffective, 1 schizotypal). I've deep dived into their minds, I can see the similarities with multiple perspectives at the same time. This doesn't make me more qualified to say what is real but it qualifies to me to make a decent hypothesis and I feel like I've backed up my hypothesis with trustworthy research from this decade.

In the graph I made white is at 0,0. That's NT folk.

Autism, Yellow is -Y
Schizo, Magenta is +X

What would the purpose of having negative numbers be?

If you can explain better the purpose, other than trying to make a crazy-people chart look like political compass then please elaborate.



Although that would be a bit amusing I'm not going to waste my sweet PS skillz on that. lolz

#utrollin?

I'm just saying ti make a lot more sense then turning 4d spectrum.
Do you know what trolling is? How is making a reasonable suggestino trolling in anyway?

Oh hmmm compared to 4d? hmm

I just don't really know what else to plot

/me shrugs

I'm both. I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder with autistic traits when I had a psychotic break 2 years ago.

I don't think they are entwined, but I think there is a high amount of people with both. I recovered from sz and I found that people with a sz diagnosis are just people with psychosis who have second problem like an anxiety disorder or a previous history of abuse and they have something that stops them from making a recovery from psychosis. I got better from sz and now I am awaiting an autism assessment because now my positive and negative symptoms are completely gone, autism symptoms describe me completely.