I have a question about the George Floyd incident.

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ironpony
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16 Aug 2020, 1:46 am

I decided to watch the entire incident on video, after being reluctant for some time. When I say this, I in no way mean no disrespect to George Floyd, and my heart does go out to him for what happened.

But there is something in the video I do not understand. When Floyd is arrested, why does he resist so much and keep trying to escape? I mean it's not worth it to try to escape since escape is impossible, in handcuffs pretty much and they already know what you look like, so why not just pay the penalty, since it was only passing a counterfeit bill?

I mean he is really freaking out like he is worried that they will catch him for a murder he committed or something equivalent to that. Again I do not mean this as an insensitive towards him at all, but I tried to make out what he was saying, but he speaks so hysterically, that I couldn't make out what he was talking about.

Again I do not mean to come off as insensitive and I am not saying he deserved what happened to him as a result of this. Certainly not! I am just trying to understand why he just didn't admit defeat to himself, and pay the penalty and move on. Does anyone know?



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16 Aug 2020, 1:56 am

He had claustrophobia and was having a panic attack because of it. They do fine driving because they are in control but they cannot ride in the car or else they feel not in control so they panic. I saw no indication of resist to arrest. Just him panicking because of claustrophobia.

Honestly I wonder what else could they have done, I still don't think they needed to be on his neck. When he said he couldn't breathe long before he was on the ground, that was him getting shortness of breath because of the panic attack.


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cyberdad
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16 Aug 2020, 1:58 am

I think what ironpony is asking is whether Floyd's panic was the precipitating factor behind the cop thinking he was resisting arrest....



ironpony
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16 Aug 2020, 2:03 am

Oh I wasn't asking how the cop felt about how he was acting, it just it came off to resisting to me in the video, but I was not sure what was causing him to resist, if that was the case. But even if he was claustrophobic, I mean they are still going to put you in the car anyway, so why didn't he just suck it up and deal with his claustrophobia for the next few hours of arrest, instead of possibly get resisting arrest charges added to his penalty?



Brictoria
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16 Aug 2020, 2:21 am

League_Girl wrote:
He had claustrophobia and was having a panic attack because of it. They do fine driving because they are in control but they cannot ride in the car or else they feel not in control so they panic. I saw no indication of resist to arrest. Just him panicking because of claustrophobia.

Honestly I wonder what else could they have done, I still don't think they needed to be on his neck. When he said he couldn't breathe long before he was on the ground, that was him getting shortness of breath because of the panic attack.


The question is: Was the "knee on neck" restraint what the officers were trained and instructed to do? As a similar restraint was recently used on a female over here who was caught outside without a mask on, it seems it isn't an unusual restraint method.

The "I can't breathe" claim, coupled with the efforts to avoid complying with requests from the officers earlier, would likely be discounted as yet another non-compliance effort.

It's easy to look at these things in hindsight, but at the time, the officers have less information than we have now, and have to work with what they see at the time, coupled with the training provided and previous experiences in similar situations. Hiding the footage from the bodycams, which would have helped to provide a much clearer understanding of what happened, certainly didn't do anything to help the situation or what has since followed.


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ironpony
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16 Aug 2020, 2:25 am

Oh okay. But you see the bodycam footage in the full video though. So did they hide it, if you can see it?



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16 Aug 2020, 2:29 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. But you see the bodycam footage in the full video though. So did they hide it, if you can see it?

The prosecutor had it, but was preventing its release and only allowing a minimal number of people to see it. It took one of the people who were provided access to it and who managed to record it somehow on a mobile telephone, and released this online before the public got to see it.


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ironpony
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16 Aug 2020, 2:36 am

Oh okay, but I thought it was normal not to devulge evidence on a case to the public until after a plea bargain is reached or until trial. So I thought the prosecutor was just following normal procedure, unless I am wrong?



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16 Aug 2020, 3:03 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but I thought it was normal not to devulge evidence on a case to the public until after a plea bargain is reached or until trial. So I thought the prosecutor was just following normal procedure, unless I am wrong?


As I understand it, this would have come under the heading of "Brady" evidence (any evidence which prosecutor has which has the potential to assist the defence), and so should have been handed to the defence lawyers, but which the prosecutor was holding on to and only allowing them to view it in controlled conditions in order to prevent them releasing it to the public, which is unusual.


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16 Aug 2020, 3:07 am

Brictoria wrote:
The question is: Was the "knee on neck" restraint what the officers were trained and instructed to do? As a similar restraint was recently used on a female over here who was caught outside without a mask on, it seems it isn't an unusual restraint method.


I think the answer is no Brictoria
https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/05/30 ... -pd-chief/
https://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/st ... 147970001/



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16 Aug 2020, 3:13 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh I wasn't asking how the cop felt about how he was acting, it just it came off to resisting to me in the video, but I was not sure what was causing him to resist, if that was the case.?


It would be interesting to get some type of feedback from the cop in the video. Obviously whatever excuse Derek Chauvin came up with in his defence it didn't fly since he seems to have a history of psychopathy

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/us/d ... floyd.html



ironpony
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16 Aug 2020, 3:17 am

Well one thing I do not understand about the body cam footage is how was he able to get out of the car, when I thought police cars were made so you could not get out and you are locked in, when it comes to the back doors. Couldn't they just lock him to prevent him from getting out?



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16 Aug 2020, 3:23 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
The question is: Was the "knee on neck" restraint what the officers were trained and instructed to do? As a similar restraint was recently used on a female over here who was caught outside without a mask on, it seems it isn't an unusual restraint method.


I think the answer is no Brictoria
https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/05/30 ... -pd-chief/
https://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/st ... 147970001/


Strange: Facts indicate otherwise:
Quote:
The way a Minneapolis police officer restrained George Floyd before he died — placing his knee on Floyd's neck while the man lay on his stomach — is widely discredited by law enforcement experts because it can cause suffocation.

But the technique is allowed in Minneapolis.

Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/29/george-floyd-experts-say-neck-restraint-allowed-minneapolis-can-kill/5274334002/

Added to which (From August 7 this year):
Image
Source: https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/victoria-police-hand-out-176-fines-for-breaching-coronavirus-directions/news-story/dd97030f26d564c055d956bebf482cc5

It doesn't take long to find accurate information, you know...


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idntonkw
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16 Aug 2020, 3:25 am

The cop who strangled him actually may have had autistic qualities.. he did not fit in with sociable people, wasn't fun to chat with, was awkward in social situations.. so his approach to taking down suspects was stringent and lacked flexibility..



Brictoria
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16 Aug 2020, 3:28 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh I wasn't asking how the cop felt about how he was acting, it just it came off to resisting to me in the video, but I was not sure what was causing him to resist, if that was the case.?


It would be interesting to get some type of feedback from the cop in the video. Obviously whatever excuse Derek Chauvin came up with in his defence it didn't fly since he seems to have a history of psychopathy

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/us/d ... floyd.html


Alternatively, maybe the footage from a member of the public, which focussed on the ending and not events leading up to it and which had been widely publicised forced the prosecutor to lay charges in order to try and defuse the situation?

Which could lead to an interesting situation should they have been "over charged" and so are found "not guilty".

Not saying Mr Chauvin was an angel (his records certainly indicate otherwise), but if it turns out he was "following his training", it could quite easily affect the outcome of the trial...


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Quote:
"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

Quote:
"Never forget that you have every right to question any individual, system, movement, or group that only tolerates you when you think and behave exactly like them" - Africa Brooke

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


Brictoria
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16 Aug 2020, 3:35 am

idntonkw wrote:
The cop who strangled him

Not sure when that changed...Last I heard he wasn't strangled:
Quote:
The criminal complaint against Chauvin, citing the autopsy, pointed out that #GeorgeFloyd did not die from strangulation but a combination of being restrained along with various underlying medical conditions including heart disease and hypertension.

Source: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/29/george-floyd-died-police-restraint-combined-health/


_________________
Quote:
"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

Quote:
"Never forget that you have every right to question any individual, system, movement, or group that only tolerates you when you think and behave exactly like them" - Africa Brooke

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn