How we deal with racism and hate speech on Wrong Planet

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alex
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24 Aug 2020, 11:45 pm

I tried to post some clear guidelines in the improving WP thread but they were just statements buried in parts of that thread so here is a better attempt at some very clear guidelines regarding racism and calling out racism.

1. Posting racist slurs will not be tolerated (Deeply offensive terms like the N word in any context as well as referring to people with racist terms like "thugs," "monkeys," etc)

2. Racist imagery (confederate flags, white nationalist symbols, swastikas, etc,) are not permitted in any context. This includes memes.

3. Calling someone racist is not a personal attack, it is a description. If someone calls you racist, keep in mind that you may very well be doing things that fit their understanding of what racist means. Don't take it as an insult but as a chance to learn and improve yourself. Ask why what you said bothers them and why they believe it is racist. Ask how you can do better in the future. If you disagree with their assessment, you're allowed to say that but keep in mind that opinions differ and you won't be able to change the fact that they view you as racist.

4. It's very possible to be racist without knowing it. We are raised with certain ideals and it's easy to take those for granted without questioning whether or not our beliefs may have racist roots. Try to be mindful of this and don't just immediately become defensive if someone calls you a racist out of the blue. They may know something you don't...


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Raleigh
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25 Aug 2020, 12:15 am

^ what about racist terms from countries other than the USA?

For example "boong" or "Jackie"?


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alex
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25 Aug 2020, 12:18 am

those were just examples. Any racist term is prohibited. Some terms are not racist in all contexts. Obviously you can use the word animal when referring to actual animals but to use it to refer to people would not be allowed.


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Raleigh
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25 Aug 2020, 12:23 am

I didn't realise thug was a racial slur??


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alex
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25 Aug 2020, 12:29 am

Raleigh wrote:
I didn't realise thug was a racial slur??


it's coded language: https://www.npr.org/2015/04/30/40336262 ... -word-thug


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Raleigh
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25 Aug 2020, 12:38 am

^ thank you for explaining.
I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to learn and improve myself. :D


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Wolfram87
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25 Aug 2020, 1:58 am

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

Quote:
Thuggee (UK: /θʌˈɡiː/, US: /ˈθʌɡi/) refers to the acts of Thugs, are an organised gang of professional robbers and murderers. The English word thug traces its roots to the Hindi ठग (ṭhag), which means 'swindler' or 'deceiver'.




Also Re:misogyny: both in PPR and L&D, misandry has been a significantly more prominent feature. Can we get some big ol' guidelines on that?


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Last edited by Wolfram87 on 25 Aug 2020, 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

ASPartOfMe
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25 Aug 2020, 2:05 am

alex wrote:
I tried to post some clear guidelines in the improving WP thread but they were just statements buried in parts of that thread so here is a better attempt at some very clear guidelines regarding racism and calling out racism.

1. Posting racist slurs will not be tolerated (Deeply offensive terms like the N word in any context as well as referring to people with racist terms like "thugs," "monkeys," etc)

Although I disagree with the “all context” part but I will abide by the rule. I thereby report my own thread for violating this rule.

alex wrote:
2. Racist imagery (confederate flags, white nationalist symbols, swastikas, etc,) are not permitted in any context. This includes memes.

No problem

alex wrote:
3. Calling someone racist is not a personal attack, it is a description. If someone calls you racist, keep in mind that you may very well be doing things that fit their understanding of what racist means. Don't take it as an insult but as a chance to learn and improve yourself. Ask why what you said bothers them and why they believe it is racist. Ask how you can do better in the future. If you disagree with their assessment, you're allowed to say that but keep in mind that opinions differ and you won't be able to change the fact that they view you as racist.

Tommorrow is my 7th anniversary on this site. Finding out that calling another member a racist is allowable on this site is one of the most deeply disturbing things I have read here. Up until now I believed the only option if encountering a racist statement was reporting it. I find this policy extreamly fraught. Being a racist is a character flaw like being an attention seeker or being cheap. While attention seeker and cheap are accurate descriptions of some members, calling them such is rightly considered a personal attack so allowing calling of other members racist is inconsistant. As some of us have pointed out the consequences of being percieved as a racist is often much higher then being percieved as an attention seeker that is why there is often such a defensive reaction to the claim. Another reason for the defensive reaction is that many of us have been called slurs.

I beg of you to reconsider the policy of allowing members to describe other members as racist. Being allowed to say “that is a racist statement” makes it non personal so can is not a personal attack although many will perceive it that way.

If this policy continues I am going to have to seroiusly consider my participation here possibly leaving possibly not participating in certain sections or discussions. I am in shock and a whole other bunch of other emotions. I am not going to make a rash decision based on these emotions and will be participating fully on this site until that I reach a decision(or decide to fully stay).

alex wrote:
4. It's very possible to be racist without knowing it. We are raised with certain ideals and it's easy to take those for granted without questioning whether or not our beliefs may have racist roots. Try to be mindful of this and don't just immediately become defensive if someone calls you a racist out of the blue. They may know something you don't...

We should always be mindful of hidden bigotry in ourselves be it racism or any other form of bigotry.


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magz
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25 Aug 2020, 2:34 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
alex wrote:
3. Calling someone racist is not a personal attack, it is a description. If someone calls you racist, keep in mind that you may very well be doing things that fit their understanding of what racist means. Don't take it as an insult but as a chance to learn and improve yourself. Ask why what you said bothers them and why they believe it is racist. Ask how you can do better in the future. If you disagree with their assessment, you're allowed to say that but keep in mind that opinions differ and you won't be able to change the fact that they view you as racist.

Tommorrow is my 7th anniversary on this site. Finding out that calling another member a racist is allowable on this site is one of the most deeply disturbing things I have read here. Up until now I believed the only option if encountering a racist statement was reporting it. I find this policy extreamly fraught. Being a racist is a character flaw like being an attention seeker or being cheap. While attention seeker and cheap are accurate descriptions of some members, calling them such is rightly considered a personal attack so allowing calling of other members racist is inconsistant. As some of us have pointed out the consequences of being percieved as a racist is often much higher then being percieved as an attention seeker that is why there is often such a defensive reaction to the claim. Another reason for the defensive reaction is that many of us have been called slurs.

I beg of you to reconsider the policy of allowing members to describe other members as racist. Being allowed to say “that is a racist statement” makes it non personal so can is not a personal attack although many will perceive it that way.

If this policy continues I am going to have to seroiusly consider my participation here possibly leaving possibly not participating in certain sections or discussions. I am in shock and a whole other bunch of other emotions. I am not going to make a rash decision based on these emotions and will be participating fully on this site until that time.

Thank you for putting it into words.

We have a lot of mentally ill posters but telling them "you're mentally ill", while true, would do no good. We have members with low IQ but telling them "you have low IQ" in a discussion would be a horrible form of dismissal. Almost everybody in the world is narrow minded in some sense but good luck telling one "you're narrow minded" and expecting them to widen their horizons.
Why is racism an exception?

Please, don't normalize judgemental language in any context.
"Doing/saying X is racist" - absolutely okay.
"You're racist because you did/said X" - judgemental and personal.


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alex
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25 Aug 2020, 2:49 am

Well I am not sure it would be as much of a problem if we asked people to say “that’s racist” . Maybe it would help make it easier for people to become less racist.

But also it seems kind of wrong to admonish the person pointing out the racism for the way they do it so I don’t know.


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alex
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25 Aug 2020, 2:53 am

Here’s a good article on the right way to respond to being called racist: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... story.html


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The Grand Inquisitor
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25 Aug 2020, 2:56 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I beg of you to reconsider the policy of allowing members to describe other members as racist. Being allowed to say “that is a racist statement” makes it non personal so can is not a personal attack although many will perceive it that way.

I agree with this.

Like you said, Alex, people can exhibit racist behaviour without even realising it. In such an instance, it would appear to me that allowing people to label an unwitting offender as a racist would be more likely to be perceived as a personal attack, and inflame or alienate that individual than to get them to see the error of their ways.

Conversely, I think calling out specific instances of racism instead of labelling an unwitting offender as a racist is more likely to get through to that individual and cause them to reflect on their conduct.



magz
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25 Aug 2020, 2:58 am

alex wrote:
2. Racist imagery (confederate flags, white nationalist symbols, swastikas, etc,) are not permitted in any context. This includes memes.

So FXE needs to change his avatar, I guess.

I'm not a fan of this regulation. "Any context" including historical photos or maps labeled with banners of the time? It's a Voldemort thing. By the way, is USSR flag included? Under this flag, millions of people died horrible deaths, including my family members.
But then, posting a documentary about space race would be forbidden.

Can we reconsider it, too?


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alex
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25 Aug 2020, 3:03 am

An article on more effectively addressing racism : https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/11/ ... tudy-trump


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alex
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25 Aug 2020, 3:07 am

magz wrote:
alex wrote:
2. Racist imagery (confederate flags, white nationalist symbols, swastikas, etc,) are not permitted in any context. This includes memes.

So FXE needs to change his avatar, I guess.

I'm not a fan of this regulation. "Any context" including historical photos or maps labeled with banners of the time? It's a Voldemort thing. By the way, is USSR flag included? Under this flag, millions of people died horrible deaths, including my family members.
But then, posting a documentary about space race would be forbidden.

Can we reconsider it, too?

Yes that should probably be clarified in some way.


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25 Aug 2020, 3:10 am

alex wrote:
Well I am not sure it would be as much of a problem if we asked people to say “that’s racist” . Maybe it would help make it easier for people to become less racist.

But also it seems kind of wrong to admonish the person pointing out the racism for the way they do it so I don’t know.

Stating that a comment is racist is in my view acceptable as long as an explanation is provided as to why ~ whereas calling someone racist is not acceptable as it has been used as a character slur on far too many occasions, and that character slur should never here be acceptable as it opens the proverbial door for more. :(


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